GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #69

[Noreen McGurl]

Loved this!
I don't know if I believe the fight story. He is using that to justify the Murder. Your right if his anger was over the "not seeing the girls" comment. .Why kill them.? you surely wouldn't see them then..right.
If you truly snap in a rage, like he is saying it would make more sense for that rage to have instantly been turned around on the girls.. not an hour or more later. imo.
It wouldn't have mattered if she said that anyway. His mind was made up way before Shanann returned home. The girls and Shanann did not fit into his new plans. He didn't want to be a divorced Dad with pesky visitations on weekends and having to keep Shanann in his life. They would have all been a burden. He will probably say how he had to kill them after Bella saw...or in his sick mind he did it for their sake or some other BS. Once a Liar...
I really believe he had this planned and for it to "work" the girls had to go to. I just don't know why he would lie about such a sick way to kill his daughters, so maybe he did wait and Murder them there. I don't know. sigh.
-sorry for the ramble.

 

[gitana1]

I feel his story is true, in that he took the girls alive to his work site. However I'm guessing there's elements of truth and pretense interwoven together.

My guess is he had been fantasizing about killing SW for awhile. He clearly hated her in the end and she was a burden to him in his sick demented fantasy of his new life with NK. Maybe they did fight and she said things as people do in the heat of the moment when they find out their partner is cheating. He at some point obviously found a chance to murder her when she couldn't fight back.

I too believe he killed those kids because he wanted them gone. They were a burden to him and his new life. Maybe he ran out of time to kill the girls before they left. The sun was coming up and he needed them all out of the house before being seen by neighbors. I feel sick saying this, but alternatively maybe it was easier for him to take the kids out to the site and murder them there, less hassle and clean up etc (although wasn't it reported that there were multiple hairs in his truck? Not sure if that turned out to be true?).


Prisons are full of people who turn to God, particularly those in the paedophile wing. Louis Therouxs documentary on that is pretty telling. Despite many of these men being depraved and unemphatic, something in their consciences doesn't sit right with them. They turn to God to hide behind ideas of redemption, believing that by saying ten hail Marys all their bad deeds will go away. Not a chance in hell.

It's fascinating. Because I've wondered: Are all of these murderers atheists? Surely some of them had religious beliefs prior to murder. Or did they never really believe?

Your posts shows that things are complex. Even monsters.

 

[ab01]

DBM @Gardenista beat me to it...

 

[Noreen McGurl]

And I love your reply and feel the same exact way and a lot of times abusers or those having Affairs will initiate an argument so the other one gets upset and then they can react to what their spouse partner says when upset and then they use it as a passive ageessive attack, which btw is abusive personality but does not want blame!!!

 

[thesensitivechild]

Personally, at this point, (I do not know how to use commas properly) I feel the details do not matter. I know they matter to those deeply invested. I have always skated around saying anything too definitively in any forum but I am intruigued as too why this one case received so much attention.

At what point do we stop seeking more information as sleuths? I am macrbe so personally it won’t ever be enough. Because I want to know and understand. But why this case? I mean I know why, but I am rhetorically just saying “but, why?” - why not let researchers be privy to all and as much information as possible from here on. So many other cases and yet this one? I feel guilty even mentioning this as if someone might misinterpret it as me saying the victims are not worthy of the ongoing attention- they are because they are and this should be used as a case study to help prevent and deter other future dickead sociopaths like CW. But why this story, while so many stories are only just happening and people being brought to their knees... well it says something clearly about the nature of the case (unequivocally brutal, deranged, the interview, etc A case to study) but it also says something about where public interest and our sleuthing community remains. Shannon and her children deserved the world. I have always thought she seemed genuine through and through. I mention this only because I can’t help but think “what is this ongoing interest with someone so faulty and mediocre as Christopher watts?” His receding hairline is showing. So is his killing capacity. Are we giving the victims the attention or him? Again, I am not excluding myself here.

I didn’t re read yet so apologies in advance. I use my phone and while being thin my fingers looks like toes. Plus grammarz

Ps. The details do matter. Ugh why must I contradict myself. I get why there is still the public interest. I just wish there wasn’t.

Pps. So grateful to be in the visual arts because I just read what I wrote and if I were any of you I would think “okay... learn how to construct a sentence”.

Ppps. Love you all.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm assuming that it wasn't a direct quote from Bella - but perhaps saying in adult words what she said. Perhaps it was something like, "No, Daddy! I don't want to go up there like Cece did! No, don't make me!" or something like that.

Man, that was hard to type.

I'm leaning toward believing him in this new confession....but, in the end, there is no way to know for sure.

jmo

Yes, I don't think a four year old would say, "Please do not do to me what you did to Cece," yet this is what's been quoted over and over again.
Maybe that's the way CW said it. It's really hard to know if anything he says is true. Investigators knew right away he was lying before and it was easy for us to tell for ourselves that he was lying. It was just so obvious.
So if LE believes some of the things he said during that 4 or 5 hour interview are true I am very interested to hear what they have to say. Imo

 

[gitana1]

Someone did an experiment here and fitting a child that was Bella's size into that size opening worked easily.

And he indeed did it. They were found in the tanks. Bella's body had scrape marks from being shoved in there. A tuft of blond hair was found on the edge of another tank.

He didn't have to get one sratch on him. He could've used his feet to shove them through the holes.

They were dead.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Gray Hughes correction. Only one child shadow

I didn't watch it but from what I have seen of the shadows debate - I don't see it as dispositive. Besides, I could see him (not literally) carrying out the children in a scooped up fashion like you would carry a limp body. If they were awake, he could have said - you don't have your shoes on so wait here and I will carry you each out - then carried them with arms out front and one elbow under the head and one elbow under the legs....perfectly hidden by the truck. So while I never believed they were alive going out before, I can see where it could have been done...shadows or no shadows. MOO

 

[scdiv]

So what is CW claiming - that he "had" to kill Bella because she saw him wrapping up Shanann's body? Why kill CeCe then? It doesn't make sense.

The whole rolling SW's body in a sheet thing does make me wonder again about that Facebook picture of the doll wrapped up. Not to re-start that conversation. It just seems like he had pre-meditated this to me.

 

[Bravo]

Ha! I’m not giving him any credit for doing that, nor am I saying that he’s any less of a monster.

I’m simply saying that he’s not hiding behind that facade anymore.

He’s doing this for selfish reasons, but this isn’t about twisting the knife.

He wants absolution. Best of luck with that CW.

Agree and once again it's all about him. That's his perk IMO

 

[Best of What's Around]

It's fascinating. Because I've wondered: Are all of these murderers atheists? Surely some of them had religious beliefs prior to murder. Or did they never really believe?

Your posts shows that things are complex. Even monsters.

In my experience religious affiliation and how deeply one believes seems to have correlation to whether they will do unethical things or even break the law. But that's just my observation. I think human beings in general are hypocritical creatures.

 

[thistle]

Personally, at this point, (I do not know how to use commas properly) I feel the details do not matter. I know they matter to those deeply invested. I have always skated around and for two months now it’s clear he is at fault. Why the continuous examination? Is it for us sleuths? At what point, in not just this case, but all cases, do we stop seeking more information. I have no problem with saying Christopher Watt’s name and utilizing it as example, but I just think “still on going and the media draw despite some very concrete results.” Then I am forced to wonder, myself included, what as sleuths does that say about us. Let researchers be privy to all and as much information as possible. But why this story, while so many stories are only just happening and people being brought to their knees... well it says something clearly about the nature of the case (unequivocally brutal, deranged, sociopathic. A case to study) but it also says something about where public interest and our sleuthing community remains. Shannon and her children deserved the world. I have always thought she seemed genuine through and through. I mention this only because I can’t help but think “what is this ongoing with someone so faulty a Christopher watts?”

I didn’t re read yet so apologies in advance. I use my phone and while being thin my fingers looks like toes. Plus grammarz

Ps. The details do matter. Ugh why must I contradict myself. I get why there is still the public interest. I just wish there wasn’t.

We try to deal with it, so that we can avoid it, so that it is something that we can see as atrocious, & hope that it never happens to us or anyone we know.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

And just for the record if Cindy Watts was my mother-in-law and did what shanann said she did to her daughter with a nut allergy I would have called the authorities and had her arrested for attempted murder so she's damn lucky Shanann put up with a lot of BS.
so if they think that she was tough on Chris they haven't even seen anything and they probably didn't because he was a shut-in on Mommy shirt tails..and i can see from the family dynamics that Chris is a puppet and maybe may be shanann just wanted him to get some Backbone in life but he likes being a puppet and that's why he chose to do what he did when she went back home to see both families in North Carolina and visit with the kids he is a totally weak controlled human being I have no, actually negative, respect for him and even probably less for his family!!! Sorry not sorry ..
I am not mean person but for some reason I want you guys to hurt a lot and I don't feel that way about probably anybody else in the universe

 

[scdiv]

something about this lawyer (on the dr phil show) is making my hinky meter go off.

The whole thing was really awkward. I think some of that may have been the extra dramatics and pauses and staging for a Dr. Phil show. I know he was there representing SW's parents. I feel like the way it was taped and spliced together and produced and extra long pauses put in, etc etc may have contributed to some of the whole weirdness around it. It all felt a bit sensationalized even though the story itself truly is shocking and horrific.

 

[Gardenista]

DBM @Gardenista beat me to it...

I love Gray. He's SOOOOOO Mean, lol

 

[ab01]

I didn't watch it but from what I have seen of the shadows debate - I don't see it as dispositive. Besides, I could see him (not literally) carrying out the children in a scooped up fashion like you would carry a limp body. If they were awake, he could have said - you don't have your shoes on so wait here and I will carry you each out - then carried them with arms out front and one elbow under the head and one elbow under the legs....perfectly hidden by the truck. So while I never believed they were alive going out before, I can see where it could have been done...shadows or no shadows. MOO

I believe they were alive and he did infact bend over and lift them up in the truck.

Why would he lie about this detail if anything it makes him look worse.

Instead of a I had just killed their mother I freaked out and killed them bc one saw me scenario.

He instead admits that he had a 40+ minute drive of reflection and thinking about what he was going to do.

I just fail to see the reasoning behind him saying this.

I also believe the video supports this from what I have seen with my own eyes and that I Know about shadows and movement.

All MOO

 

[lakelette]

I don't know the Watts family and am grateful for that, but it seems like all the questions surrounding them and "how could they ______?" can be answered by remembering where Chris got his DNA. Not to say they are murderers and monsters too, but they may very well lack in the empathy arena too. I hope we don't hear from them after the release, but I imagine we will. Ugh.

 

[gitana1]

Personally, at this point, (I do not know how to use commas properly) I feel the details do not matter. I know they matter to those deeply invested. I have always skated around and for two months now it’s clear he is at fault. Why the continuous examination? Is it for us sleuths? At what point, in not just this case, but all cases, do we stop seeking more information. I have no problem with saying Christopher Watt’s name and utilizing it as example, but I just think “still on going and the media draw despite some very concrete results.” Then I am forced to wonder, myself included, what as sleuths does that say about us. Let researchers be privy to all and as much information as possible. But why this story, while so many stories are only just happening and people being brought to their knees... well it says something clearly about the nature of the case (unequivocally brutal, deranged, sociopathic. A case to study) but it also says something about where public interest and our sleuthing community remains. Shannon and her children deserved the world. I have always thought she seemed genuine through and through. I mention this only because I can’t help but think “what is this ongoing with someone so faulty a Christopher watts?”

I didn’t re read yet so apologies in advance. I use my phone and while being thin my fingers looks like toes. Plus grammarz

Ps. The details do matter. Ugh why must I contradict myself. I get why there is still the public interest. I just wish there wasn’t.

To me it's simple- they appeared to be the perfect family. An attractive couple. Beautiful kids. Huge, gorgeous house. Trips. Family fun. Positive portrayal on social media.

They seemed to have what most people want. They had it all.

There was not one sign that something this horrific could happen. As a few had said, there was nothing in CW's aspect to indicate he was capable of this.

This kind of thing sends shivers down everyone's backs. Can it happen to me? Could I be sleeping with the enemy? People are desperate for information that they can use to prove it can't be them or to provide warning signs.

Then there's the unique interest of us sleuthers. Those of us who research and study these crimes, delve deeply into them and add them to our data banks/crime knowledge libraries.

Most of us on this site have been fascinated by true crime for years. Some of us for most of our lives. The psychology behind it. The pathology of it. The science. The profiling. The investigatory work. It's all fascinating.

So we will be more deeply interested than most.

We will analyze this case to death and when the next one pops up many of us will have this experience to guide us for the next.

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't think this is over by a long shot. No screams heard anywhere. No bruises or scratches on CW after allegedly killing his wife, who didn't fight back? At least Bella would've clawed at him if she knew what was coming. CeCe would've kicked at him hard. This puzzle still isn't coming together and I don't believe a word CW is saying; I'm wondering what he ISN'T saying.

Bella DID fight back.

 

[Tigerlily75]

If ever there was a murder case that needed to go to trial, this was it. People are going to argue this case in the court of public opinion for the next one hundred years because there is too much/not enough info on what may or may not have happened. Basically lies and gossip. No facts or evidence to convince a jury to convict or acquit. Just back and forth and the words of more than one liar. If and until he goes on trial, there is nothing really more to say that will give anyone a definitive conclusion.

There’s no need to go to trial, he plead guilty. Why have the expense of trial just to get the same result? That’s not how it works. We don’t have trials just to satisfy curiosity. They hold a specific purpose - to determine a persons guilt or innocence of a crime. He plead guilty.

What anyone says makes no difference. He killed them all and he’s never getting out of prison.