GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[pinkie60]

Your idea makes a lot of sense. It could have been so that chronic lack of sleep caused moods and actions that he now can not explain in any reasonable way.[/QUOTE/:
Was he tested for drugs steroids?

 

[pinkie60]

I have two versions. One, he panicked when Bella woke up and for a while did not know what to do with them.

Two - I know I posted it, and it sounds odd, but i sometimes think he seriously planned to “disappear” his family and “move” NK to the house. Keep the decorations and change the object. In this case, he did not want the house to be “tainted” by three murders. They spoke about kids with NK, and she even gave him advices.

Didn't he want to sell the house ? I thought he contacted a realtor on Monday right after the family went missing

 

[CuriousCarly]

Sad to think I wonder how much attention he gave Bella and Cece when he had them. He was so involved with NK texting and calling constantly.

And poor Deiter, their dog, as well. I bet he was crated for most of July.

 

[Safeguard]

Thank you. I agree... CW made his decision. CW was the married man. CW could have stopped this and should have.

Morally, NK should have stopped seeing CW until he got a divorce but we aren’t arguing this. NK did not commit a crime. NK had no idea Chris was going to kill Shanann and the kids to be with her.

Chris Watts is the criminal. I don’t see what bashing NK and talking about her has to do with anything because it won’t help anyone reach any sort of closure. Chris is to blame.

Well...NK IS a party to this case, Like it or not. She was investigated and people are discussing all the details... I don't get how it disturbs anyone to talk about his choice in affair partner.

It seems like anytime anyone mentions something "not so great" about other people involved, they somehow are seen as mitigating CW's responsibility for these murders. ( I saw this same phenomena in the "Making A Murder" threads, If you even hinted that you believed LE planted evidence, you were labeled a Steven Avery apologist).

I think we all know who's to blame in this case. The "Halo effect" doesn't help get the full picture of a situation either imo.

NK's interviews are on record, and it's ok to comment on her imo.

 

[Seattle1]

I saw it on the news about a day after the interviews broke. HLN maybe? One of the talking heads was talking about the prison after the interviews went public. They said before he was allowed in general population but now they had to put back him into solitary.

CW was never in gp!

He's been 23/7 in his cell since he arrived WI.

SW family Lawyer Lambert reported this, as previously linked here.

 

[PommyMommy]

Here's one more:

It’s unusual that the wife wasn’t killed, said Levin, the Northeastern University criminologist, since “typically, it’s the spouse who’s blamed for all of the killer’s personal miseries.”

Levin believes revenge is the primary motive for family annihilation.

“He kills the children in order to get revenge, a sweet revenge against his wife. He wants to kill everything associated with her — everything that she loved, everything that he identified with her.”

Experts have profile of fathers who kill family

Flood - who, it is believed, was under financial pressure - was described by regulars at his local pub as being "quiet and reserved", "a private man". But here lies the problem. These are men who have huge difficulty expressing or identifying emotions - at least verbally. Replace "quiet" and "reserved" with "inhibited" and "repressed" and you start to hit the mark. When something happens to these men, such as their wife leaving them or going into debt, all hell breaks loose - literally.

Kate Hilpern investigates what makes some men murder their own children

There have been a number of articles regarding FA specific to this case. If you search the media thread for "annihilator," you should find them. Media thread is here: MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

A couple of examples:

How could a man like Chris Watts so callously slaughter his entire family?
Sociopaths enter romantic relationships based on an agenda. They always consider what they can get from others first. Men like Chris are not able to be intimate or express empathy or deep emotions. Given these emotional limitations, Watts was drawn to his wife Shanann, because he believed she could make him loved, healthy, normal and whole. He was not able to get these feelings on his own. He very likely thought Shanann could help him feel this way because she had this amazing ability to create an image of satisfaction and success. She also was madly in love with him.

Why do men kill their families? After Colorado husband’s arrest, a look at 4 categories
The news raises questions about the unconscionable crime of “family annihilation,” and the scarcity of research that existed on the topic until recently. What possesses people to kill their own family?

Also, see thread on the topic of FA's here:
Family annihilators

 

[pinkie60]

Here's one more:

It’s unusual that the wife wasn’t killed, said Levin, the Northeastern University criminologist, since “typically, it’s the spouse who’s blamed for all of the killer’s personal miseries.”

Levin believes revenge is the primary motive for family annihilation.

“He kills the children in order to get revenge, a sweet revenge against his wife. He wants to kill everything associated with her — everything that she loved, everything that he identified with her.”

Experts have profile of fathers who kill family

Flood - who, it is believed, was under financial pressure - was described by regulars at his local pub as being "quiet and reserved", "a private man". But here lies the problem. These are men who have huge difficulty expressing or identifying emotions - at least verbally. Replace "quiet" and "reserved" with "inhibited" and "repressed" and you start to hit the mark. When something happens to these men, such as their wife leaving them or going into debt, all hell breaks loose - literally.

Kate Hilpern investigates what makes some men murder their own children

Sounds like what happened here

 

[PommyMommy]

Didn't he want to sell the house ? I thought he contacted a realtor on Monday right after the family went missing

Yes, he did. But, Shanann had also contacted the realtor prior to that on August 10.

PDF pg 594, Discovery pg 670:
Agent GALBRAITH contacted ANN MEADOWS by phone on 08/15/2018 at 1954 hours. ANN told me that SHANANN WATTS sent her a message on Facebook Messenger on 08/10/2018 to tell her that she an CHRIS WATTS were thinking about moving. She said that she would be out of town and back in town
Sunday night. She wanted to get together with ANN to discuss after she returned. SHANANN asked for the best sites to be looking for homes on and ANN sent her to REColorado and sent SHANANN a mobile app to search with. ANN then sent SHANANN a follow-up message suggesting they get preapproved for a loan to begin with. SHANANN did not reply and ANN expected that she would once she returned to town.

On Monday, 08/13/2018 at 0828 hours, ANN received a three-minute phone call from CHRIS WATTS. ANN was surprised and actually taken aback when CHRIS called as it was SHANANN that ANN usually talked with about real estate. ANN was their agent when they bought the house they were living in. She only talked with CHRIS maybe twice during the transaction. CHRIS asked ANN if SHANANN had called her yet. She told CHRIS that she sent her a message in Messenger and that ANN suggested that he and CHRIS get preapproved for a loan.

CHRIS told ANN that no one knew yet, but he and SHANANN were getting divorced after not getting along for over a year. ANN was shocked and told CHRIS that she was sorry. He told ANN that not even his family knows.

 

[Seenit]

IIRC Sandy was on his case first thing Monday morning, saying he put them in oil, generally freaking out for SW/kids safety before even knowing they weren't just visiting friends. Now we know she actually woke up Frank and Frankie to tell them something had happened to her daughter. Normally I'm not the spiritual kind, but I believe Sandy 100% and have so much respect for her.

I have always wondered how Sandy knew to mention to the police that CW had covered them in oil. Almost like some sort of unearthly knowledge.

 

[PommyMommy]

‘I Felt My Daughter’s Spirit The Moment She Died,’ Says Mom Of Colorado Murder Victim, Shan’ann Watts | Dr. Phil
“I felt my daughter’s spirit, the moment she died,” says Shan’ann’s mother, Sandy Rzucek, who lives in North Carolina. She describes waking up everyone in her house the morning her daughter and grandchildren were killed to tell family members that she felt something was wrong with Shan’ann.

“We didn’t even know she was missing yet,” says Shan’ann’s brother, Frankie, confirming his mother’s account.

‘I Think The Hardest Part Is Knowing Our Granddaughter Watched Her Sister Die,’ Says Mother-In-Law To Confessed Killer Chris Watts | Dr. Phil
“I think the hardest part is knowing our granddaughter watched her sister die and then begged for her life,” says Shan’ann’s mother, Sandy Rzucek, reacting to what the family has been told about her son-in-law’s description of the last words spoken to him by Bella.

(Video clips in the article are from today's full episode.)

 

[Seattle1]

From Dr Phil Interview with family:

1) Sandy awoke from dead sleep feeling SW presence on morning she was murdered (and before SW declared missing). She told Frank and Frankie and they tried to calm her. Sandy made 17 calls to Colorado trying to reach SW.

2) As soon as Frank learned CW backed the truck in driveway, he told LE to follow trucks gps, and they would locate his family. Frank was not opposed to CW getting the dp.

3) Girls had to be buried in full size caskets because they were in packaged in protective non-combustible seal. Remains could not be cremated after being submerged in crude oil for days.

4) When RW learned Frank was going to Colorado to pack the Watts house, he contacted Frank and requested CW's childhood school trophy's, jersey's, and tool box/tools. There has been no recent or further contact with Watts family.

5) Frankie was the subject of fake FB pages, received death threats, and troll attacks. Grateful for all the positive support.

 

[MassGuy]

“I’ve been doing this for 45 years, there’s no category for this, it’s pure evil.” -Dr Phil

The whole thing about the baby being alive, was in regards to the time that Shanann was murdered (she hadn’t miscarried before that). When Shanann died, the baby died (obviously).

As the family was told details by investigators, they thought about how hard it must be for THE INVESTIGATORS to break this to THEM!

That’s the Rzucek’s in a nutshell. Amazing people.

 

[pinkie60]

Someone said he looks content in prison. I just thought maybe he's on some meds and is getting counseling. Maybe that is why he agreed to the video
Who knows. Maybe it was all about financial pressure that he never could express. Probably the closest he got was telling Shannan he didn't want the baby
There were a lot of medical bills with the kids. Cece was born with a too small esophagus that caused her to choke she was on treatment and meds for months. I think both kids had asthma. Shannan's lupus could flare up at any time. She had a really hard time with Cece. They were in debt
This pressure with the pressure of wanting to spend all his time with his new love made him cold and calculating. Like someone put it he made a spreadsheet. I think he resented any time or money he had to spend on them. He wanted them gone. I think he must have felt hatred toward them in the end. That's my feelings for today. Might change this afternoon tho

 

[Safeguard]

bbm

"An affair with a manipulative, bipolar woman?"

I'm not sure what being bipolar has to do with anything? I've also never heard anything to lead me to believe she is bipolar. Even if she was, that's not something you can hold as a negative against her. Nobody chooses to have a mental illness.

People with "Cluster B" disorders, (Manic-Depressive, BPD ect...) are often extremely manipulative. It's even part of the diagnostic assessment.

 

[kay74]

CW was never in gp!

He's been 23/7 in his cell since he arrived WI.

SW family Lawyer Lambert reported this, as previously linked here.

More lies from the media. Or sensationalism.

 

[MassGuy]

The Rzucek’s clearly believe this was premeditated.

They talk about how much they liked him up until this happened. They never thought Shanann was in danger.

They think the affair changed him.

Until they saw his news interview, they didn’t suspect him.

Sandy wanted to fly there immediately after seeing that.

“He wanted a new life, so he took away your life.” -Dr. Phil.

 

[Colorfuel]

bbm

People with "Cluster B" disorders, (Manic-Depressive, BPD ect...) are often extremely manipulative. It's even part of the diagnostic assessment.

Bipolar disorder is an affective disorder, not a personality disorder. It is not part of cluster B.

 

[kay74]

From Dr Phil Interview with family
4) When RW learned Frank was going to Colorado pack the Watts house, he contacted Frank and requested CW's childhood school trophy's, jersey's, and tool box/tools. There has been no recent or further contact with Watts family.

How much you wanna bet Ma Watts told hubby to do that.

 

[MassGuy]

Dr. Phil points out that the Rzucek’s would have taken the children in a heartbeat.

Shanann would have been fine had CW simply just left.

Dr. Phil says that CW was thinking all about himself, as a “malignant narcissist.

Frank Sr. supported the death penalty all along.

They all would have supported it knowing what they know now.

They didn’t know details about Bella’s injuries, or that SW was buried face down until they heard it in court.

 

[Seattle1]

The Rzucek’s clearly believe this was premeditated.

They talk about how much they liked him up until this happened. They never thought Shanann was in danger.

They think the affair changed him.

Until they saw his news interview, they didn’t suspect him.

Sandy wanted to fly there immediately after seeing that.

“He wanted a new life, so he took away your life.” -Dr. Phil.

Yes - the "porch interviews" had Sandy wanting to hop a plane!