CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

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Yep, I looked yesterday and could not find it. Still it could be explained away, unless the perp is on the cam. Neighbor not wanting people taking pics for any reason, even just to protect privacy of their own children, (happened to my parents when the neighborhood went downhill and neighbors wanted dad's cams removed as they could catch drug deals). Kid playing pinata. You name it. Although, it does seem more suspicious to me.

Can anyone link to the cam issue? Thanks in advance if you can. :blowkiss: I'll check back when I get to work.

Here is the link that leads to other links. It also has the pictures in it.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184237"]The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram: timeline, picture,media thread: - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Morgan's death. She could easily obtain the medications. I really can't see anyone breaking in and giving them to her. She could have been given them on a date for the purpose of rape, but we now know she was seeing an OBGYN and on the pill, so the date would have no need to rape. Her last night was with a BF, so we could think he did this, but I doubt that. She just went to the doc, I suppose for her annual check up, and more pills (jmo).

Snipped for length.

"No need to rape?" I'm probably misinterpreting something, so can you clarify what you mean, 21? No snark here -- my question is honest in intent because the way this section (BBM) is currently worded seems to imply that any young woman who is on the pill can't be a victim of date rape.
 
Theory:
I think she could have been slipped a drug cocktail while she was out that night. She starting having symptoms of feeling ill (due to the sleeping pill + flexoril) when she was talking to her father and likely went right to sleep after that conversation. Sometime while she was sleeping, the stalker applied the horse transdermal patch of amitriptyline to her skin. The stalker waited for her to die and then removed the patch and took it with him.

I think the amitriptyline in her stomach could have been due to postmortem redistribution. See slide 15:
www.utm.utoronto.ca/~w3fsc402/lectures/03_postmortem.ppt

(I am curious as to the levels of ami in her blood vs. gastric contents and hope the autopsy report is shared at some point...at least the lab values and organ findings.)

I think the stalker screwed up in the amount of amitriptyline in her system. I still believe there was too much there for her to have swallowed all of it. It definitely didn't come from her 25 mg pills, and it stretches the imagination that even if she had access to the 150 mg tablets she would be able to swallow a cocktail of some 20 or more ground up pills plus the sedative and muscle relaxant (while leaving no evidence of the cup it had been mixed in). The values in her blood were reported as being among the highest ever seen. As 2 local veterinarians reached out to the family to say they were now locking up their amitriptyline patches, I think that is a likelier source than something stolen out of a family medicine cabinet.

Even if Morgan secretly doctor shopped to gain ami pills, the doctor would have started her on a low dose and titrated up....She would not have gone home with a month's supply of 150 mg pills after a single visit. And most doctors would send her home with a newer drug that has fewer side effects (MOO) like Prozac or Zoloft (which are both now generic).
 
Snipped for length.

"No need to rape?" I'm probably misinterpreting something, so can you clarify what you mean, 21? No snark here -- my question is honest in intent because the way this section (BBM) is currently worded seems to imply that any young woman who is on the pill can't be a victim of date rape.

Not at all what I meant. I was working on the doc saying "date rape drugs". Not clear I know. However, we don't even know if rape or intent to rape was involved. I was saying I doubt new BF intended to rape though. Anyone can be raped regardless of their medical circumstances.
 
<modsnip>. There's too much here to say nothing to see here.

Not what I was saying.

I am pointing out the legal complications in any stalking case, and the legal issues parents could be facing if the accused choose to do anything about it.
 
Thanks for the links.
There is also an episode on ID's Stalking show that talks about gang stalking or (group stalking) I think the female was 14 or 15 and she was gang stalked. Anyway, the woman host says that it is a crime that is popping up fast all over.

I do wonder if bullies are going to get classified as stalkers or gang stalkers soon? Seems like there isn't much of a line between the two.

From my research and a dissertation on bullying, here's some helpful websites you can copy and paste into your internet search browser.

1. For laypeople and teens: "Lady Gaga's Born This Way Foundation"
2. For statistics: Dr. Sameer Hinduja's "Cyberbullying Research Center"
3. For teacher's especially: "olweusinfo@hazelden.org"

Imo, bullying, cyberbullying, and stalking are not mutually inclusive or exclusive of one another.
 
Has anything been posted yet about parents taking their evidence to a prosecuting attorney or magistrate's office during all of this? I don't think we have read about any restraining orders being issued yet, but have they taken the evidence to anyone that can decide if there is enough to take any charges out based on what evidence they have? (Other than LE coming to check things out and interviewing those the family suspected.)
 
Sorry if these issues have been addressed in previous threads--I haven't read all the pages of both threads but have read the entire blog and many pages of the threads here, listened to the interview with TI--I'm curious how much the neighbor across the street might've known about the stalker/peeping tom. Did TI tell him when they found the footprint? I'm curious how much information she gave to him. Also, what doesn't really fit for me is the stolen jewelry. A perp of this caliber--who can break in and inject drugs under fingernails or with patches,etc, can elude police and security measures taken--is not the same type who steals jewelry and then actually SELLS it.
 
I couldn't agree more. This is where the LE messed up: They didn't treat this family with the respect they deserved. And so right about the consequence; that unanswered questions lead to accusations and conspiracy theories, which I guess, we are all fanning or trying to put out. Right?


all of our information and suourcing comes from a heartbroken mom. We do not know what the LE felt or thought only that they did not feel this was a murder.
 
Your knife collection sounds extensive and interesting...but,I was posting to say that Morgan's mom did not write that a knife was found.She specifically stated that "unique blades " were found. She seems fairly articulate, and so I take note of her use of words ?

Be wonderful if we could see a photo of the blades ? Or even get a description... And since these blades were underneath the ground branches of a tree, I doubt that anyone would have moved the branches while looking for footprints ? Therefore, I believe that the blades could have easily been overlooked... JMO



when did one knife found after they moved become unique blades, plural?
 
Hmm.

All the drugs listed are readily available to Morgan and friends through school or the free clinic if any choose to go and talk with a doc or therapist. They can even be found in home medicine cabinets from parents, siblings, grandparents, whomever lives there. They can be bought as "street" drugs from those that get the scrip but want the cash for some other substance, which is easy to figure out when in school.

Interesting that the videos, which seem to contain the only real evidence, will not be posted.

I am looking at what little evidence there is and it does not add up for the strong accusations to me.

One footprint. Could have been a friend over to see Morgan, could have been Morgan's from some earlier day or other family member, could have been nosy neighbor, or someone chasing their dog. (Any other footprints were merely talked about and there are no photos, which means non-existent, no evidence.)

The gutter. That is stained. They never went on the roof until they talked with a psychic after the fact. They have no idea when the gutter was damaged, and appears to have been damaged for some time. Add to this that locks were on doors that no one looked at or knew about for 6 1/2 years! Even after a suspected stalker shows up?!!

The hoodie person. No evidence of this. Could imagination be playing tricks? Could it be a neighbor out for an early morning walk or chasing after their own dog, a college student stumbling home after an all nighter?

The key code pushing. Again I ask did anyone give the key code out? Did Morgan ever sneak out or have friends sneak in? How easy was it to set off a sound? A squirrel or a bird land on it? There is no evidence.

A blade under a tree. Found after family moved out. Good grief, that could be any neighborhood youth playing, carving initials, carrying a blade for reasons stated above (ninja star like collectors, many do this, and study marshall arts simultaneously btw), any reason, but not found while in the home, therefore not related.

The car. Someone said there is only one way out of the neighborhood. Couldn't the friends have been simply going somewhere? Wouldn't it be in any general direction Morgan was headed? They were the same age group, doing the same things. They could have, as someone stated, just been angry and got on her bumper. We don't know.

(BTW, this is also how easy it is for stalkers to get out of stalking charges with no evidence to support the claim.)

Then we have LE never finding anything. I do think LE handled this well. They showed up every time and looked. They went so far as to question any and all they were told could be stalkers. They found nothing.

Missing jewelry. No one has gotten around to getting the photos of Morgan wearing it. Most of us give it as a holiday gift and snap the joyous opening photos, and donning of the new jewelry photos. This has been left hanging.

Again, I wonder, did Morgan have friends coming after parents went to bed, to ask her back out to the party? Did she date a young man mom knows nothing about and he was coming over for some passionate moments?

A lot is not adding up. There could have been a stalker, I agree. There could have been a friend.

Morgan's death. She could easily obtain the medications. I really can't see anyone breaking in and giving them to her. She could have been given them on a date for the purpose of rape, but we now know she was seeing an OBGYN and on the pill, so the date would have no need to rape. Her last night was with a BF, so we could think he did this, but I doubt that. She just went to the doc, I suppose for her annual check up, and more pills (jmo).

I fear that what is happening could only bring more issues for mom and dad. Those accused can and may be in the process of Federal charges for the accusations.

LE felt none of the accused was involved. This is not helpful. I agree LE messes up a lot. I'm not sure here. I am sure if you are going to accuse others of felony stalking and then the most heinous, murder, you would need evidence to substantiate it. Not imaginings, not assumptions. This family needs a good lawyer to advise them, and if that lawyer feels there is a case, a private investigator.



I agree with the above but would like to gently add that we need to keep in mind that almost every bit of our information comes from a heart broken mother who has an agenda. An agenda we can all understand. Her daughter is gone and she needs someone to blame someone to focus on. But there is a very good chance that there is no one to blame and that in her grief she may be seeing things a bit off. Too many things do not add up and that concerns many of us. But with our concern is also compassion for these parents. It is very difficult to have only one source and even the things about Morgan are coming from that same source.
 
The drugs in her system would have made me want to have LE check out all her lotions ,as 20 crushed up pills is alot to take in and evidence of that would be in her stomach or nostril or however she ingested it . Needles in the fingernails is to questionable for me to consider but if someone soaked a patch in water to release the medication and then mixed that in lotion that had been stolen and replaced. No one would have had to hide in the closet or even be present when the lotion was applied. Just a thought.
 
I agree with the above but would like to gently add that we need to keep in mind that almost every bit of our information comes from a heart broken mother who has an agenda. An agenda we can all understand. Her daughter is gone and she needs someone to blame someone to focus on. But there is a very good chance that there is no one to blame and that in her grief she may be seeing things a bit off. Too many things do not add up and that concerns many of us. But with our concern is also compassion for these parents. It is very difficult to have only one source and even the things about Morgan are coming from that same source.

I agree and I feel a great deal of sympathy for them.

My point, which obviously is not clear, is that Courts don't care about emotions when names, photos, and allegations are out there, with what would amount to zero evidence to substantiate claims of murder when viewed from a legal standpoint. I am concerned for them. I am hoping they will seek advice from any attorney.
 
The drugs in her system would have made me want to have LE check out all her lotions ,as 20 crushed up pills is alot to take in and evidence of that would be in her stomach or nostril or however she ingested it . Needles in the fingernails is to questionable for me to consider but if someone soaked a patch in water to release the medication and then mixed that in lotion that had been stolen and replaced. No one would have had to hide in the closet or even be present when the lotion was applied. Just a thought.

I was just thinking about that. If they found a way to get in in something she used anyone that had walked thru the door disguised as a friend could have done it ahead of time.
 
all of our information and suourcing comes from a heartbroken mom. We do not know what the LE felt or thought only that they did not feel this was a murder.

We also have to remember-we have a heartbroken father to-who is prolly feeling terrible cause he could not catch the guy!
 
Snipped for length.

"No need to rape?" I'm probably misinterpreting something, so can you clarify what you mean, 21? No snark here -- my question is honest in intent because the way this section (BBM) is currently worded seems to imply that any young woman who is on the pill can't be a victim of date rape.

I was wondering the same thing myself - oh I see it was answered later, carry on.
 
I agree with the above but would like to gently add that we need to keep in mind that almost every bit of our information comes from a heart broken mother who has an agenda. An agenda we can all understand. Her daughter is gone and she needs someone to blame someone to focus on. But there is a very good chance that there is no one to blame and that in her grief she may be seeing things a bit off. Too many things do not add up and that concerns many of us. But with our concern is also compassion for these parents. It is very difficult to have only one source and even the things about Morgan are coming from that same source.

Beautifully put.
 
The biggest problem I have with it being suicide is where is the evidence. Unless Morgan really did have a cleaning fairy there should be something lying around her room or trash.
Any ideas on why there would not be?
 
The biggest problem I have with it being suicide is where is the evidence. Unless Morgan really did have a cleaning fairy there should be something lying around her room or trash.
Any ideas on why there would not be?

there is an explanation but I think if I were to go there I might be breaking the special rules for this case.
I do have a sad story though, it may or may not apply and I am in no way suggesting it is the case here. My nephew-in-law took his own life after a long period of sadness he felt overwhelmed by. When found by his parents,they tidied up a few seconds before calling 911. His parents were deeply involved in their religion and his suicide would, in the eyes of their beliefs, exile him from the heavenly rewards they all planned to enjoy in the great hereafter. Even now they claim (I'm divorced from this family now but keep in touch) "God needed him more than we did" and will become very irate at any suggestion of anything otherwise. It is heartbreaking to see. These are wonderful good decent people.
 
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