CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

[K.jill]

After one of the blog posts someone comments and links a photo they found on a MySpace page. Photo is of MI and 4 other people. The person who posted this pic on his MySpace had other pics. Someone named Morgan commented on one of his pics. I went to her MySpace and looked at her photos. She looks like MI. Anyone know if it is? The comments were from 2009 iirc.

 

[twinkiesmom]

However, I'm just utilizing my lawyer mind here and trying to understand and figure things out. And if we are being fed what we want to hear rather than what reality actually may have been at the time, that's going to be hard to do. I just want clean facts. That's all.

I guess there is no way to assure that though, at this point.

My scientist mind tells me that these folks are desperate for someone to listen to them and are willing to twist themselves into pretzels to make that happen.

Here's what I believe:
This healthy 20-year-old girl did not die of natural causes.
The true cause of her death is unknown at this point.
None of the drug formulations in her body can be sourced to the home.
Stalking can and does occur surreptitiously.
The objective evidence we do know about (picture of stalker, keying of car, blade left on property) indicates M may have been a target.
Not enough investigation was done to rule this a suicide with any confidence.

 

[Lera213]

Look I think toni is trying to figure it out also, she has all the facts and notes but since she is very close to all of it, I think it is hard for her to piece it all together and maybe she is missing stuff. When we bring mention a point, she thinks about it and then deduces that that could be a theory based off the facts and her notes of all the events that happened.

I for one understand and do not find one iota of hinky with it at all.

 

[Lera213]

forgive my typo's having issues with keyboard and mouse. No money to buy a new one...so I try. lol

 

[concernedmother]

I think she is just a mother that loved her daughter and she is trying to make sense of it all. And it is a mystery for sure. If she truly feels her daughter was murdered I applaud her for trying to get answers. Maybe this whole thing would have been easier if the ME, LE etc would have just sit down with the parents, went thru their stuff and tried to explain it all to them.By blowing them off it just creates more suspicion and more questions. They have concerns and deserve answers. And the 2nd opinion certainly raises some questions. I wish we had the autopsy report to debate. Like Myra (I believe) said, even if were a bad one there should be some useful information there.

 

[MayraMM]

My scientist mind tells me that these folks are desperate for someone to listen to them and are willing to twist themselves into pretzels to make that happen.

Here's what I believe:
This healthy 20-year-old girl did not die of natural causes.
The true cause of her death is unknown at this point.
None of the drug formulations in her body can be sourced to the home.
Stalking can and does occur surreptitiously.
The objective evidence we do know about (picture of stalker, keying of car, blade left on property) indicates M may have been a target.
Not enough investigation was done to rule this a suicide with any confidence.

I understand these are your beliefs, but with all due respect, we don't know she was healthy. Her own mother says she had circles under her eyes and was showing signs of stress, not eating, etc.

The cause of death was amitriptyline toxicity. It's the manner of death which is in question.

Can the drug formulations be sourced to her friends or outside sources available to her? It didn't need to come from the home to be suicide.

Yes, stalking absolutely can be surreptitious. So far, though, all we've really seen is peeping. The car she thought was following her may or may not have been a stalker. It could have been angry teenagers accused of stalking her trying to mess with her in retaliation for being questioned.

The evidence is inconclusive, as the picture of the "stalker" has yet to be identified; could have been a nosy neighbor. The keying may or may not have been related, and the blade on the ground was found AFTER they had moved out so there's no saying how long it was there. There has been only one footprint (as of yet), even with all that activity, and since mom was witnessed to more incidents than M, if there was a stalking or other predatory behavior, it could have been directed to her or even the whole family to instill fear.

With the evidence we do have available, it's more likely to be suicide than homicide, although we still have weeks of story to hear. The scenario of a poisoning in her own home by outsiders with such a large amount of medication, despite extensive security measures, is a lot harder to picture than one where she gathered the drugs and took them all herself.

I'm not ruling anything out, but from what I've seen, heard, and read since this thread has been up is that this is a very sad family trying to make sense of their daughter's sudden death, and perhaps not being able to deal with the facts.

I agree with whoever said that LE and the ME need to sit the family down and walk thru each piece of evidence (not dismiss them, but explain them) until the family can come to an understanding or until LE/ME says, "Hold up, you might have something there." As long as they don't explain there will be questions and accusations of incompetence. The family deserves to have all their concerns addressed, have access to all reports, and have the opportunity to ask questions until they have no more questions to ask.

They should take an advocate not related to the family (someone who can objectively observe and take notes) and be scheduled for an open-ended appointment. If it takes all day, then it takes all day. Any person of compassion should agree with that, and if they refuse to grant the family that, then there is a problem.

 

[ktgirl]

I wonder what the mom felt immediately, when she saw Morgan dead? If I was a mom whose daughter was being stalked and found my daughter dead, I would immediately wonder how she died.
Did the mom think she was murdered right then?
Did she think Morgan committed suicide?
I would think either one would have crossed her mind. I would think she would want answers immediately. To cremate Morgan doesn't make sense if the mom wanted answers. And she said Morgan wanted to be cremated. Why would a 20 year old say she wants to be cremated?
These things confuse me.

Bolded by me.
Maybe I'm weird, but ever since I attended my first open-casket wake as a 16 year old, I was set on cremation. It was my high school boyfriend's grandma and I was freaked out by how much make-up was piled on her, the way they did her hair, and the clothes the BF's mom had picked out. I was terrifed at the thought of someone I've never met doing my hair based on some pic my mom brought in (afraid I'd have huge bangs), someone chunking so much make-up on me, and anyone but me making a decision about the clothes I'd be wearing (and what do you do? keep making lists as you acquire new outfits you like/old ones fall apart/etc.)?
BF's mom also mentioned how much the open casket wake and embalming wake was costing and I knew at 16 that was A LOT of money the family did not have. (Then when my father-in-law died a few years ago, had an open-casket wake and was buried several hundred miles away in another state, the family was left with a $15,000 bill that my mother-in-law could barely pay (he didn't have life insurance). I'd rather my family cremate me (and I don't need an expensive urn) and have a fun party to remember me or go on a fun vacation in my honor.

This feeling was cemented when I was 18 and met a college student who was studying "mortuary studies" who explained to me how bodies are rid of blood and pumped with embalming fluid- the idea kind of grossed me out (but I understand how many would have this reaction to the idea of their bodies being cremated). I was/am also a bit of a hippie and the embalming fluid's effects on the environment plus the idea of natural decomp (the returning of my energy into the earth) having to wait through the embalming fluid and (likely metal) coffin gave/gives me pause.

I had a good friend die at 15 (I did not attend her open-casket wake but did attend the funeral), so perhaps I came to conclusions about what I wanted done when I died at a very strange and very young age. Maybe I am weird. But maybe Morgan was, too...maybe she had similar reasons for wanting to be cremated or even other reasons all together. I don't think it's weird....but everyone has a different life story and come to this those types of thoughts of what they'd want done when they die at different times (and some, perhaps never at all).

BTW I am no trying to criticize anyone who wants to be enbalmed/buried rather than cremated. To each his or her own. It's just not for me.

However....if I die under suspicious circumstances, I have instructed family not to cremate me (and not have an open-casket wake).

 

[MayraMM]

Bolded by me.
Maybe I'm weird, but ever since I attended my first open-casket wake as a 16 year old, I was set on cremation. It was my high school boyfriend's grandma and I was freaked out by how much make-up was piled on her, the way they did her hair, and the clothes the BF's mom had picked out. I was terrifed at the thought of someone I've never met doing my hair based on some pic my mom brought in (afraid I'd have huge bangs), someone chunking so much make-up on me, and anyone but me making a decision about the clothes I'd be wearing (and what do you do? keep making lists as you acquire new outfits you like/old ones fall apart/etc.)?
BF's mom also mentioned how much the open casket wake and embalming and costing and I knew at 16 that was A LOT of money the family did not have.

This feeling was cemented when I was 18 and met a college student who was studying "mortuary studies" who explained to me how bodies are rid of blood and pumped with embalming fluid. I was/am also a bit of a hippie and the embalming fluid's effects on the environment plus the idea of natural decomp (the returning of my energy into the earth) having to wait through the embalming fluid and (likely metal) coffin gave/gives me pause.

I had a good friend die at 15 (I did not attend her open-casket wake but did attend the funeral), so perhaps I came to conclusions about what I wanted done when I died at a very strange and very young age. Maybe I am weird. But maybe Morgan was, too...maybe she had similar reasons for wanting to be cremated or even other reasons all together. I don't think it's weird....but everyone has a different life story and come to this those types of thoughts of what they'd want done when they die at different times (and some, perhaps never at all).

BTW I am no trying to criticize anyone who wants to be enbalmed/buried rather than cremated. To each his or her own. It's just not for me.

However....if I die under suspicious circumstances, I have instructed family not to cremate me (and not have an open-casket wake).

Have you ever heard of a green funeral? No emblaming fluid, no casket. Simple shroud. This is what I want. I want my body to decompose and feed the earth, which in turn will feed other animals and continue the "circle of life". I envision my family digging the hole, putting me in, and covering me up themselves. No ceremony, no ritual, just the loving hands of my family putting me to rest.

 

[liz b.]

new post up:

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/

**Speculation **

Blog states that "he presented himself to Morgan one morning,dressed in black from head to toe " Also that "he left some unique blades outside the house "

This sounds like a wannabe Ninja to me...someone who is interested in Ninjitsu,and has probably studied it....those blades could well be kunai blades.. He could have some ties to Japan.May have been in the service there...This might account for the angry,destructive behavior evident when the wildlife camera was trashed. The biggest no-no in Ninjitsu is to be seen,or to be caught on video... Just some thoughts and JMO

FWIW, many ninjas stalk their victims,and poison is a common weapon they use...

 

[MayraMM]

**Speculation **

Blog states that "he presented himself to Morgan one morning,dressed in black from head to toe " Also that "he left some unique blades outside the house "

This sounds like a wannabe Ninja to me...someone who is interested in Ninjitsu,and has probably studied it....those blades could well be kunai blades.. He could have some ties to Japan.May have been in the service there...This might account for the angry,destructive behavior evident when the wildlife camera was trashed. The biggest no-no in Ninjitsu is to be seen,or to be caught on video... Just some thoughts and JMO

FWIW, many ninjas stalk their victims,and poison is a common weapon they use...

The knife was found after they had already moved away and had gone back to try to get a look at the roof on the suggestion of a medium. No one knows how long the knife was there.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I don't believe ninjas were involved. Jmo
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JBean]

My scientist mind tells me that these folks are desperate for someone to listen to them and are willing to twist themselves into pretzels to make that happen.

Here's what I believe:
This healthy 20-year-old girl did not die of natural causes.
The true cause of her death is unknown at this point.
None of the drug formulations in her body can be sourced to the home.
Stalking can and does occur surreptitiously.
The objective evidence we do know about (picture of stalker, keying of car, blade left on property) indicates M may have been a target.
Not enough investigation was done to rule this a suicide with any confidence.

I concur down the line. To expand on your first comment, I think they do not have any idea as to where to turn, what to do first, or whom to trust. They seem to be finding their way down an untraveled road and are not, for whatever reason, getting the standard help that might be expected.

I had a relative go missing last year. During the first few weeks and into the following months family members really had no idea what steps to take, who they should turn to for help or who was to be trusted due to circumstances. Even those volunteering to help were utlimately met with resistance due to differing viewpoints on the circumstamces surrounding the disappearance. Was LE covering up? It was all unfamiliar territory and they had no idea how to handle the situation because we don't learn this in life basics. There was guidance from different experts that had different, conflicting ideas of what they SHOULD be doing and when they should be doing it. It was a nightmare.
being on this website we forget that much of what we have learned here the average Joe doesn't know. We know protocols and have resources and have some idea what might be the right steps to take.

In this case nothing makes sense to me. Not suicide, not murder, not accidental. what does that leave? not much and a true mystery.

ETA: FWIW, I have wanted to be cremated since I knew it was possible. No way I am going in a box under ground. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[MayraMM]

ETA: FWIW, I have wanted to be cremated since I knew it was possible. No way I am going in a box under ground. Ain't gonna happen.

I had a dream one night that was standing in front of a row of drawers, like at a mortuary. I pulled open the door and saw myself lying there. It was a crematorium and was checking to see if I was "done" yet. I poked my self in the should and said, "Nope, not done yet!" Closed the drawer, and woke up.

That's when I decided cremation was not for me! LOL!

 

[SyraKelly]

Does anyone know if this house
had a basement & if the stalking stopped after M passed?

 

[polly1]

I understand these are your beliefs, but with all due respect, we don't know she was healthy. Her own mother says she had circles under her eyes and was showing signs of stress, not eating, etc.

The cause of death was amitriptyline toxicity. It's the manner of death which is in question.

Can the drug formulations be sourced to her friends or outside sources available to her? It didn't need to come from the home to be suicide.

Yes, stalking absolutely can be surreptitious. So far, though, all we've really seen is peeping. The car she thought was following her may or may not have been a stalker. It could have been angry teenagers accused of stalking her trying to mess with her in retaliation for being questioned.

The evidence is inconclusive, as the picture of the "stalker" has yet to be identified; could have been a nosy neighbor. The keying may or may not have been related, and the blade on the ground was found AFTER they had moved out so there's no saying how long it was there. There has been only one footprint (as of yet), even with all that activity, and since mom was witnessed to more incidents than M, if there was a stalking or other predatory behavior, it could have been directed to her or even the whole family to instill fear.

With the evidence we do have available, it's more likely to be suicide than homicide, although we still have weeks of story to hear. The scenario of a poisoning in her own home by outsiders with such a large amount of medication, despite extensive security measures, is a lot harder to picture than one where she gathered the drugs and took them all herself.

I'm not ruling anything out, but from what I've seen, heard, and read since this thread has been up is that this is a very sad family trying to make sense of their daughter's sudden death, and perhaps not being able to deal with the facts.

I agree with whoever said that LE and the ME need to sit the family down and walk thru each piece of evidence (not dismiss them, but explain them) until the family can come to an understanding or until LE/ME says, "Hold up, you might have something there." As long as they don't explain there will be questions and accusations of incompetence. The family deserves to have all their concerns addressed, have access to all reports, and have the opportunity to ask questions until they have no more questions to ask.

They should take an advocate not related to the family (someone who can objectively observe and take notes) and be scheduled for an open-ended appointment. If it takes all day, then it takes all day. Any person of compassion should agree with that, and if they refuse to grant the family that, then there is a problem.

I couldn't agree more. This is where the LE messed up: They didn't treat this family with the respect they deserved. And so right about the consequence; that unanswered questions lead to accusations and conspiracy theories, which I guess, we are all fanning or trying to put out. Right?

 

[SyraKelly]

**Speculation **

Blog states that "he presented himself to Morgan one morning,dressed in black from head to toe " Also that "he left some unique blades outside the house "

This sounds like a wannabe Ninja to me...someone who is interested in Ninjitsu,and has probably studied it....those blades could well be kunai blades.. He could have some ties to Japan.May have been in the service there...This might account for the angry,destructive behavior evident when the wildlife camera was trashed. The biggest no-no in Ninjitsu is to be seen,or to be caught on video... Just some thoughts and JMO

FWIW, many ninjas stalk their victims,and poison is a common weapon they use...

This would scare me to death-esp at 2 in the morning.So M knows who is was!!

 

[liz b.]

The knife was found after they had already moved away and had gone back to try to get a look at the roof on the suggestion of a medium. No one knows how long the knife was there.

I wonder why Morgan's mom states,in the blog,that "unique blades "were found outside the house ? She does not state that a knife was found...IIRC, these bladers were found under a tree. We have no way of knowing where they come from at all...MOO

 

[liz b.]

I don't believe ninjas were involved. Jmo
<•><•>


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wrote that it sounds like a "wannabe " ninja...could be a loner, and a person who ninjitsu would appeal to... It does hold a fascination for people who believe themselves to be powerless and wronged...someone who has a stalker mentality to begin with ? Just a thought...MOO

 

[MayraMM]

I wonder why Morgan's mom states,in the blog,that "unique blades "were found outside the house ? She does not state that a knife was found...IIRC, these bladers were found under a tree. We have no way of knowing where they come from at all...MOO

I have quite the collection of unique blades, including a samurai sword (authentic), throwing stars, switch blades, push daggers, and even fantasy knives. I have no ties whatsoever to Japan and I am not a Ninja. A "unique blade" could also be a carpet knife (a funny shaped blade that fits into a utility type knife for cutting carpets), a karambit (which I also own; lots of fun), or just a knife/sword/razor blade that she's never seen before.

I just had new carpets put in and I'm still finding those funny hook-shaped blades everywhere: the window sill, outside, on the porch, even the bathroom. The guy who laid the carpet said usually the carpet layers just leave them under the carpet; he thought that was unsafe (yeah, go figure).

But even if it was a throwing knife (or shuriken), I'm willing to bet there wasn't a Ninja anywhere near the area.

 

[MayraMM]

I wrote that it sounds like a "wannabe " ninja...could be a loner, and a person who ninjitsu would appeal to... It does hold a fascination for people who believe themselves to be powerless and wronged...someone who has a stalker mentality to begin with ? Just a thought...MOO

Take out the word ninja, and you still have a plain old stalker. Someone who is a loner, believes himself powerless and wronged, etc. Since the family never saw the blade before, even tho they were constantly looking for footprints and such, it's logical to conclude that it came on to the property after they moved.