CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #3

[Confusion]

Gotcha.

http://morganingram.com


With that fact, it's hard to believe someone entered her room at all and the puppy wasn't going nuts.

Unless it was someone she knew well?

 

[Confusion]

Just jumping off your post (sorry). And I apologize if this has already been discussed. The ami cocktail previously posted from wiki (http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Amitriptyline_Cocktail) stated death would occur anywhere between 12-36 hours (36 for the first and 12-24 for the second). I am only remembering, definitively, ami and flexeril as being found in the toxicology report. I know there were others, but I can't remember what they were, in addition to what was not tested for. Regardless whether MI took it herself, someone slipped it, she was forced, etc., and on the assumption it was a cocktail of drugs, how long would she have been able to function? IOW, what is the earliest she could have taken this the day before/of her passing in order to get home and in bed?

Also, MI's dad talked with her that night, and MI expressed she was sick or coming down with something (coughing IIRC?). Add in pulmonary edema from the autopsy....I have no clue what to make of this as I don't have a medical background, but would coughing be a symptom of pulmonary edema? And could that have been caused by the drug cocktail (whatever it was)?

BBM

It can be a symptom, but not always the most obvious one. I don't know a lot about acute pulmonary edema, mine is chronic (in my case from congestive heart failure), but the Mayo Clinic lists the symptoms of it as:

Sudden (acute) pulmonary edema symptoms
Extreme shortness of breath or difficulty breathing (dyspnea) that worsens when lying down
A feeling of suffocating or drowning
Wheezing or gasping for breath
Anxiety, restlessness or a sense of apprehension
A cough that produces frothy sputum that may be tinged with blood
Excessive sweating
Pale skin
Chest pain, if pulmonary edema is caused by heart disease
A rapid, irregular heartbeat (palpitations)

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pulmonary-edema/DS00412/DSECTION=symptoms

It's possible that it was just developing when she got home and that was the main thing she noticed. MOO

 

[hambirg]

Ok, the flipside of the question....

If you were the perp, how could you get inside the house, into M's room and perpetrate the crime w/o making her scream or struggle?

Think about it.... She's tired and frightened, the perp is there standing by her bed. Her puppy and cat are in the room with her. Her parents and the other dog are sleeping in another part of the house. What might the perp do or say to make her remain silent?


----
...going back to lurking till my wrist stops hurting.

Slip her a flexiril and a benzo in her water bottle maybe.

 

[hambirg]

It would have to be someone that she was familiar with, that she would be comfortable having in her room.

There's not a word you could say to me to make me remain silent of I woke up and found someone in my room that I was terrified of. She had able-bodied parents in the house with her that were within screaming distance.

We can go round and round hypothesizing about what happened, but there is no evidence that a crime occurred in her room.

The evidence is as follows:

Morgan Ingram's body was found in her room by her mother at 5:30 am.

It was later determined that she had drugs in her system.

Even later, it was determined that she committed suicide.

There is no evidence of a crime, unless I am missing something.


If MI's mother had found her daughter with her wrists slit and the razor blade was still in her hand would she still not agree that it looks like, and is probably, suicide?

But that's not what happened here. What the analogy would be is if she was found with slit wrists, but no razor nearby. That raises some questions of how she did this to herself and was still able to get rid of all the evidence. I don't know how she could have.

 

[hambirg]

I don't think anyone here is claiming that all LE are honest and thorough. It's just that in this case, we don't know that they didn't do everything they should; we are only hearing from anguished parents and so far, nothing tells me that LE was negligent.

Also, why would someone kill her in this manner, i.e. "date rape" drugs, etc. if he did not intend to assault her? Isn't that the point? Poisoning someone to death is usually to get them out of the way, historically, i.e. a cheating husband kills his wife, or a wife wants insurance money. This is just too bizarre to me.

I would vote more for some sort of accidental death more than anything else, but perhaps the ME found something that pointed him specifically to suicide and we just don't know it...who knows. So far I have seen nothing to indicate murder, that is for sure.

We have no idea whether Morgan was assaulted or not and we won't ever find out now because the ME did not do a rape kit.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Its like living in a wee village with all the gossip about the neighbours,except in this case the gossip is coming from the person directly involved!..

Ive went back and forth in my thoughts on this but in my own opinion i dont know if she commited suicide or if the stress just got too much and her body just gave up but i dont think it was murder.

 

[rollinginit]

Just to let you know, it took me about 8 minutes to find out exactly who we were talking about, only from this thread, to find their FB's and their reported criminal activity, online. (I had not viewed the names on the blog yet, at that point). One of their names is posted in full on this site, I think the first or second thread, quoting from a MSM article, about something unrelated (thus far) to Morgan.

RSBM.
I do agree and I do know where the post is (I think it was one missed by the mods). I have NEVER agreed with naming these people at all. Or accusing them of this. I also think it's a very bad move on the mom's part. IMO, if I was writing a blog like that, I would have put fake names in or at the very least, published a LE report that specifically listed that person as a POI at one time.
Mom said in the blog that she wasn't internet savvy, so I assume..maybe she didn't realize what would happen. I'm sure now she does know how crazy some people can be on the internet.

Mom talks about her mailbox key being stolen and her trash. The first thing that popped in my mind......uh oh. Now she has some strange internet friends that are sleuthing her information.:what: IMO, mom really needs to think about what she is doing to other people she names. All I can picture is this story blowing up.....and outside some of these people's houses, it looks like the outside of the C. Anthony house when all those people were protesting.

But, it does sound as if mom is going to get some help. I really think she needs it at this point. Somebody to advise on the do's and Don'ts.

JMO.

 

[rollinginit]

OK, I'm going to throw out an observation here (because I haven't made nearly enough enemies on this board yet), but did anyone else notice in the interview that when Mom directly quoted M, she did it in a little girl's voice? M was 20, sleeping half the time in her parents' closet, had a curfew, had to call in all the time, couldn't even go to her GYN without mom. She had a lot of her life controlled.

Maybe M took control of the only thing she had left to control.

Just wondering...what's wrong with giving a 20 yr old curfew? My 20 yr old daughter has a curfew. No way am I going to wait up all night while my kid runs the road and I have to wait to close my house down for the night. I've told her many times, if she doesn't like, she's more than welcome to rent her own place. She is 20 after all. Nothing I could do if she leaves.

When my daughter is not at work, I expect to know where she is at. AND my daughter likes me to go to the dr. with her.....and the dentist.....and to get her meds. Actually, I've figured out why.....she likes me to be there when she conveniently forgets her money.
IMO, none of that means control on the parents' part.

I really think of 20 as a funky stage. Most kids want to leave, but most kids do not have the money to live on their own yet. Some are still trying to figure out what they want to be. I am experiencing it with my own daughter.

My daughter would let me do everything for her if I would. It's not b/c of control....it's b/c she doesn't want to do it.

JMO,

 

[FrayedKnot]

Their rooms were at opposite ends of a rather large house, and there's no evidence that there was any noise. Since M always carried her water container (I don't remember if it was a bottle or something else) with her, there's always a possibility that someone had slipped the flexeril (and/or the other date rape drug mentioned, if there really was one) in with her water. If she drank it while laying there texting, it could have easily knocked her out so she didn't know what was happening.

Wouldn't she have tasted it? Or do we know if Morgan used those little packets to flavor bottled water? You know like Propel or Crystal Light?

Even if she ingested the meds knowingly, could she have masked any unpleasant taste with flavoring?

 

[21merc7]

Back to a tired topic, I spent to much time trying to find this yesterday, so I looked at it again this morning.

Glenwood Spring is indeed listed in here, so for any that were looking for specific dates (which I don't know what they are) keep scrolling past A-Z then there begins another A-Z. Page 25 begins snowfall, then scroll to Glenwood Spring. I'm like a dog with a bone, but no idea why I am getting the bone, hahaha!

http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/orders/IPS-E92526F9-7421-4DD2-84EF-5CB773F80461.pdf

 

[FrayedKnot]

The following is PURE speculation and MOO:

Is it possible that Morgan had some frenemies who for whatever reason had it in for her, but not in a murderous way?

Perhaps there was some tapping/peeping activity one night. The kids in the neighborhood hear about it because Morgan's mom is well-known to be a bit over protective and over-reacting.

So they think they will have some fun with it and take up where the original "stalker" left off. Rattling doors and tapping windows, etc.

Now, suppose also that whatever the issues were with Morgan and the frenemies, they were causing M some emotional stress. She began losing weight, avoiding some of the group, etc. Perhaps she dug out those old rx meds and was taking them again to "help". (We don't know how many pills were gone, nor how many 'should' have been left when she stopped taking them two years ago)

If M was having problems with these kids and it was something she wasn't willing to share with her parents, it may have been very distressing to her. Then you have the prank "stalking", and finally her mom's over-reacting and smothering of M.

M may have had a opportunity to grab some vet meds while at the stables. She is 20, stressed out, and recognized the name of one of the drugs. Again, she is 20 and kids now are WAY more into abusing rx meds than street drugs. Even kids who don't do drugs are pretty savvy about which drugs are the "fun" ones.

So M may have just wanted to get a little "numb" to escape all the crap going on around her, and she ingested way too much by whatever method. If she knew about making her own face creams, exfoliants, etc., she may have had a mortar and pestle for that purpose and may have known how to grind pills and dissolve them into a suspension.

When Morgan is found dead, mom replays over and over the "stalking" and it just gets bigger and bigger and takes over everything until what she remembers bears little resemblance to what actually occurred.

And in light of mom's campaign, it is doubtful anyone involved in the pranks will ever come forward and confess.

Again, just a theory as to how it might have happened and it is ALL MOO.

 

[keeponsearching]

It could be possible that the perp got to M before she had a chance to wake up. The puppy was still young and probably a little excited.

I live at home till I was almost 20. I had a curfew. And I would call if I stayed over a friends. My dad made my curfew 11, lol..... A few nights I stayed out till 12, not my fault, I blamed the driver, well there is my dad holding the front door open. He was not mad, just concerned of where I was. I feel bad now thinking back....

 

[nursebeeme]

The blog has yet to state whether the puppy was in the room that night. If the puppy was in the room I fully believe this to be a suicide.

Also, why was her mother in her room to check on her at 5:30am?

To let the puppy out, possibly?

I would never dream of going in my kid's room at 5:30 in the morning, especially not a 20 year old.

But, if there's a new puppy in there and the dog needs to be let out then I think we have our answer as to what really happened in the room.

see the 8:45 am comment by the mother on the blog post that you linked upstream. Puppy was in her room that night.

 

[NancyA]

I would say to those who doubt that a stalker even existed......why waste your time?

Can you imagine having your daughter stalked....no your family stalked and terrorized?

And the end result is your baby dying?????

Then add to that, people don't believe you!!!???

There are far too many details and scenarios to say these people are making this up.

As far as the stalking goes........I have ZERO doubt. Never doubted it.

I think the least we can do is give them the benefit of the doubt! Let's continue to help them with fresh ideas and think out of the box.

Everyone on here is so good at it! Come on people.

Who is with me? (does best John Belushi run out door with no one following)

Taking your post point by point, my responses in purple:

I would say to those who doubt that a stalker even existed......why waste your time? [/B]

I would say if expressing differing opinions on a given case and questioning things that don’t add up or make sense to us is a waste of time then Websleuths itself is a waste of time.

Can you imagine having your daughter stalked....no your family stalked and terrorized?

And the end result is your baby dying?????


We can (and do) sympathise and empathise without necessarily having suffered similar experiences. The the fact is many people here who have expressed doubts have suffered similar experiences of stalking and bereavement, so, isn't it a bit off to be questioning the validity of their thoughts on this drawing from those very experiences just because they don't happen to coincide with your thoughts?

Then add to that, people don't believe you!!!???

Having put this blog out there M’s mom must have realized that she was going to get views and conclusions that conflicted with hers. We can question people’s perceptions and interpretations of events without necessarily questioning that they sincerely believe what they are saying.

There are far too many details and scenarios to say these people are making this up.

I’d agree there are far too many details and scenarios mostly unverified and unsubstantiated by anything but mom’s words and that’s part of my issue with this case. No one to my knowledge has claimed that ‘these people are making this up’ we’re saying they are interpreting a series of events and conversations one way and we are pointing out that there are other ways to interpret those same events and conversations.


As far as the stalking goes........I have ZERO doubt. Never doubted it.

Well good for you, but that’s your choice stemming from what you have drawn from what you have read, some of us have drawn other things that trouble us and don’t choose to suspend our critical faculties and ignore those perceived inconsistencies and contradictions.

 

[keeponsearching]

I think its great everyone is thinking outside the box and doing different theories. We just have to remember to be nice to each other, because we are all here for the same reason, even if we don't agree. In someway it helps to research something someone is naying.

I see proof of stalking. Even LE did. I am surprise they dropped it Because a crime was still committed.

 

[twinkiesmom]

The following is PURE speculation and MOO:

Is it possible that Morgan had some frenemies who for whatever reason had it in for her, but not in a murderous way?

Perhaps there was some tapping/peeping activity one night. The kids in the neighborhood hear about it because Morgan's mom is well-known to be a bit over protective and over-reacting.

So they think they will have some fun with it and take up where the original "stalker" left off. Rattling doors and tapping windows, etc.

Now, suppose also that whatever the issues were with Morgan and the frenemies, they were causing M some emotional stress. She began losing weight, avoiding some of the group, etc. Perhaps she dug out those old rx meds and was taking them again to "help". (We don't know how many pills were gone, nor how many 'should' have been left when she stopped taking them two years ago)

If M was having problems with these kids and it was something she wasn't willing to share with her parents, it may have been very distressing to her. Then you have the prank "stalking", and finally her mom's over-reacting and smothering of M.

M may have had a opportunity to grab some vet meds while at the stables. She is 20, stressed out, and recognized the name of one of the drugs. Again, she is 20 and kids now are WAY more into abusing rx meds than street drugs. Even kids who don't do drugs are pretty savvy about which drugs are the "fun" ones.

So M may have just wanted to get a little "numb" to escape all the crap going on around her, and she ingested way too much by whatever method. If she knew about making her own face creams, exfoliants, etc., she may have had a mortar and pestle for that purpose and may have known how to grind pills and dissolve them into a suspension.

When Morgan is found dead, mom replays over and over the "stalking" and it just gets bigger and bigger and takes over everything until what she remembers bears little resemblance to what actually occurred.

And in light of mom's campaign, it is doubtful anyone involved in the pranks will ever come forward and confess.

Again, just a theory as to how it might have happened and it is ALL MOO.

If you grind up 5 pills and one of them oversedates you to death, that's one thing...but I can't expect a reasonably intelligent educated person like Morgan to make a mistake of taking thousands of mg instead of hundreds of mg of ami plus two drugs basically to make her out of it.

Someone knew what they were doing. The "chaser" drugs flexeril and flurazepam putting her out of it so she isn't thrashing around in her room in convulsions. The chaser drugs ensured she didn't receive help...She went to the morgue rather than the hospital. In the article I posted and sent to Herding, all of those patients survived because they were hospitalized....but they didn't have the chaser drugs on board to silence them...They were discovered in time to save them.

Don't believe me, read the ami cocktail wiki...They mention the pitfalls of being discovered trying to commit suicide due to the side effects of ami.

The other thing is mom mentioned Morgan was upbeat due to an appt wtih LE the following week and believed the stalker would be arrested. If she let anyone know about this, she would be in particular danger at this time, just as Kathleen Savio was just prior to her divorce being final. Kathleen Savio died when she did because Drew P was protecting his assets.

If you want to argue suicide, that's fine...but i don't get accident out of this at all.

 

[wyome]

I apologize if this has been brought up before; I admit I have not read every post on these threads.

Regarding the jewelry...is it possible that Morgan could have given away her favorite pieces to friends in the weeks proceeding, with the intent of suicide? I'm not saying that I'm convinced that's what happened, but it is not uncommon for those contemplating an end to give away items.

I read mom's blog, and don't recall if she ever mentioned Morgan's faith. The loss of one's faith is also a common thread to suicidal feelings.

Also, I remember us discussing the purchase of Morgan's dog, but I don't recall Morgan's mom ever addressing the why or timing to it. Did I miss something?

 

[gitana1]

If you grind up 5 pills and one of them oversedates you to death, that's one thing...but I can't expect a reasonably intelligent educated person like Morgan to make a mistake of taking thousands of mg instead of hundreds of mg of ami plus two drugs basically to make her out of it.

Someone knew what they were doing. The "chaser" drugs flexeril and flurazepam putting her out of it so she isn't thrashing around in her room in convulsions. The chaser drugs ensured she didn't receive help...She went to the morgue rather than the hospital. In the article I posted and sent to Herding, all of those patients survived because they were hospitalized....but they didn't have the chaser drugs on board to silence them...They were discovered in time to save them.

Don't Believe me, read the ami cocktail wiki...They mention the pitfalls of being discovered trying to commit suicide due to the side effects of ami.

The other thing is mom mentioned Morgan was upbeat due to an appt wtih LE the following week and believed the stalker would be arrested. If she let anyone know about this, she would be in particular danger at this time, just as Kathleen Savio was just prior to her divorce being final. Kathleen Savio died when she did because Drew P was protecting his assets.

If you want to argue suicide, that's fine...but i don't get accident out of this at all.

I keep seeing different drugs mentioned as given to Morgan. But the only drugs we have seen listed in a report were Ami., nortryptiline, and Flexeril, right?

I see no connection to a battered spouse trying to leave or getting property and Morgan speaking with police and thinking there would be an arrest. In 50 calls , several of which I presume Morgan spoke with police, and despite cameras, and being spotted by Morgan and the mom on a few occasions, the perp was not caught. Just because Morgan had an appt does not mean indicate he would be.

 

[21merc7]

I keep seeing different drugs mentioned as given to Morgan. But the only drugs we have seen listed in a report were Ami., nortryptiline, and Flexeril, right?

I see no connection to a battered spouse trying to leave or getting property and Morgan speaking with police and thinking there would be an arrest. In 50 calls , several of which I presume Morgan spoke with police, and despite cameras, and being spotted by Morgan and the mom on a few occasions, the perp was not caught. Just because Morgan had an appt does not mean indicate he would be.

BBM

I think this was all that was listed in the only report posted.

ETA: Link to post with Dr. letter:

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?attachment_id=1135

 

[nursebeeme]

I apologize if this has been brought up before; I admit I have not read every post on these threads.

Regarding the jewelry...is it possible that Morgan could have given away her favorite pieces to friends in the weeks proceeding, with the intent of suicide? I'm not saying that I'm convinced that's what happened, but it is not uncommon for those contemplating an end to give away items.

I read mom's blog, and don't recall if she ever mentioned Morgan's faith. The loss of one's faith is also a common thread to suicidal feelings.

Also, I remember us discussing the purchase of Morgan's dog, but I don't recall Morgan's mom ever addressing the why or timing to it. Did I miss something?

I am curious as to if, when noted missing, a report was filed by the family on the missing jewelry?

(also curious as to when it was noted missing)