CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[Confusion]

I'm very surprised by that. That seems like a logical step to me. I wonder why they decided to forgo a home alarm system?

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

I wondered that too, it probably would have been the first thing I would have installed. Not only because it could feasibly be installed without having to go outside.

 

[MayraMM]

If they have video of him entering and/or leaving the property, we have to gear from LE why that wasn't considered when her death was investigated.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

M had a curfew, she was 20, and she was seeing her BF that night. I wonder what the odds are of her sneaking him in late at night. If that did happen, and I was the guy being snuck in, I sure wouldn't step forward, not with mom trying to find a murderer!

It would be interesting to find out if any of the cameras were shut off for certain periods of time, then switched back on.

 

[JaimeSommers]

Jaime, please keep posting here, don't go.

Not leaving the thread, Cazzie, just going back to lurking. If down the road I feel like I can contribute, I will. It's a fascinating case on many levels.

 

[twinkiesmom]

http://het.sagepub.com/content/26/8/667.full.pdf+html

One must analyze the tissue distribution data and that is only if specimens were taken. They were not taken in the case I linked- nor were they taken in Morgan's case-IIRC

I don't understand why you say one must analyze the tissue concentration data....with Morgan's levels as high as they were in the peripheral blood (many fold over the lethal limit) why would it matter how high the tissue concentrations were?

I guess what I'm saying is this is any way you look at it she had received a lethal dose....doesn't matter if the blood level was artificially inflated by postmortem redistribution.

 

[steff13]

I wondered that too, it probably would have been the first thing I would have installed. Not only because it could feasibly be installed without having to go outside.

It definitely would have been my first step. Maybe they didn't think their landlord would allow it, though. That's a shame, most alarm companies offer 24-hour monitoring. That would have been useful.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[raine1212]

That's for a gel, not a transdermal patch, and it's a study. I'm hoping to find reference to it used widely on horses in patch form, and what dosages the patches come in.

Maybe this

http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/items/amitriptyline-twist-a-dose-transdermal-gel.html

17 strengths of Amitriptyline Twist-a-Dose Transdermal Gel are available, ranging from 0.3 mg/0.05ml to 10 mg/0.05ml.

 

[MayraMM]

Maybe this

http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/items/amitriptyline-twist-a-dose-transdermal-gel.html

17 strengths of Amitriptyline Twist-a-Dose Transdermal Gel are available, ranging from 0.3 mg/0.05ml to 10 mg/0.05ml.

Thanks for trying, Raine, but that, too was a gel, and it was for cats and dogs. I ran into this a while back and was amazed at some of the flavors the oral suspension came in! (Marshmallow, triple chicken, Tutti-Frutti!)

I was looking for a patch with the dosages for horses. If there's a patch for horses, then I think the dosage would be important.

 

[mysterygirl]

Not leaving the thread, Cazzie, just going back to lurking. If down the road I feel like I can contribute, I will. It's a fascinating case on many levels.

Hey, I loved the bionic women when I was little.

I wanted to squeeze that orange like she did.....

 

[JBean]

I don't understand why you say one must analyze the tissue concentration data....with Morgan's levels as high as they were in the peripheral blood (many fold over the lethal limit) why would it matter how high the tissue concentrations were?

I guess what I'm saying is this is any way you look at it she had received a lethal dose....doesn't matter if the blood level was artificially inflated by postmortem redistribution.

I was Just reading from the article. I found that comment particularly interesting because the levels in the case were record setting; yet the author cautioned about analyzing the blood data only. I have no doubt that Morgan's death was caused by amitriptyline intoxication. The article was posted to share information about interpreting data and the complexity of it, as well as hopefully pull out some data that might be applicable.

 

[mysterygirl]

I don't understand why you say one must analyze the tissue concentration data....with Morgan's levels as high as they were in the peripheral blood (many fold over the lethal limit) why would it matter how high the tissue concentrations were?

I guess what I'm saying is this is any way you look at it she had received a lethal dose....doesn't matter if the blood level was artificially inflated by postmortem redistribution.

Twinkie.....what's your gut feeling on the route of that drug?

 

[JaimeSommers]

I'm sorry. I did not mean it as an insult, mostly just wondering here it came from, especially when there is no evidence of it.

No apology necessary, rolling. I'm not going to say anything further on this topic out of respect for the mods. It wasn't my intent to derail things. I don't have a theory about what happened to Morgan -- like many others, I go back and forth. At the end of the day, though -- in response to posters who have specifically asked the question about why a young woman of Morgan's considerable beauty, brains, and talent might withdraw into herself and end her life -- there could be many reasons that would not be obvious. IMO

 

[JaimeSommers]

((((Jaime)))) I should have been more sensitive in my reply. I apologize. What I should have said thank you for your input and thank you for sharing. But as it relates to this case we are not going to discuss possible abuse of Morgan.

I am doing many things at once right now and will be more careful about posting on the fly.

Thank you. It's all right. I didn't mean to create an issue. Let's just move on and help the family get answers.

 

[polly1]

Guys don't forget these are postmortem samples being used to determine antemortem dosages. There are many variables that must be considered, what peripheral area was the sample taken from? how soon after death? How much (I mean actually quantify) did postmortem redistribution factor into the levels?

Some of the comparative levels I see posted are for living people. The best way to google the information is to find an autopsy of someone that died where the blood samples were taken from the same peripheral location, the same amount of time after death under similar circumstances.

We do not have any pathologists, pharmacologists,toxicologists or any other specialist that could analyze these results. Consequently we have asked that everyone link up any information they post about this issue.
It is complex and even the experts don't always interpret the data the same.


We have some wonderful verified health professionals that can perhaps help us sort through some of the literature and that would be great!

If we link up this information with no agreement among experts, where then, are we at? And why would not the Ingrams give WS the original toxiology report and compare that to Dr. Doberson's conclusions? Why, why, why? :banghead:
And I think you said there is no one verified on WS that can read these reports with a professional opinion? "Opinion" being a key word? Otherwise, would not this thread go on and on until everone's exhausted from going around it circles?
Again, I am new to this. My goal in being here is to get answers. I do not watch the crime shows on TV nor have I had anyone close to me lose their lives.
May I sincerely ask if many of you wonderful sleuthers not only want to help and get answers but also just discuss b/c it's intriguing and fascinating? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/twocents.gif:twocents:

So, if you say below, I would love your verified health professionals to weigh in so we can all stophttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/emotbanghead.gif

and get as close to an answer as we can.

Not trying to make enemies, just trying to understand the nature and goal of WS.

Merci beaucoup! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/heartbeat.gif

 

[raine1212]

Thanks for trying, Raine, but that, too was a gel, and it was for cats and dogs. I ran into this a while back and was amazed at some of the flavors the oral suspension came in! (Marshmallow, triple chicken, Tutti-Frutti!)

I was looking for a patch with the dosages for horses. If there's a patch for horses, then I think the dosage would be important.

Found this not a patch though
Amitriptyline Hydrochloride 50mg - 100ct

MWI Veterinary Supply


from pet meds

Amitriptyline HCl 10 Mg 100 Ct Bottle #10480
$16.24 $11.99

SAVE $4
Amitriptyline HCl 25 Mg 100 Ct Bottle #10584
$16.24 $11.99

SAVE $4
Amitriptyline HCl 50 Mg 100 Ct Bottle #10585
$18.74 $13.99

SAVE $4
Amitriptyline HCl 75 Mg 100 Ct Bottle #10474
$26.24 $19.94

SAVE

 

[steff13]

Would a patch have left adhesive on her skin of it was applied then removed?

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[koalabear]

Is it normal procedure for an ME to rule a death Natural Causes if there was toxicology results pending? Wouldn't they hold the COD until they get the results?

Does that seem strange to anyone else? Why would he open himself to criticism of changing a COD if he was awaiting toxicology results?

 

[K.jill]

M had a curfew, she was 20, and she was seeing her BF that night. I wonder what the odds are of her sneaking him in late at night. If that did happen, and I was the guy being snuck in, I sure wouldn't step forward, not with mom trying to find a murderer!

It would be interesting to find out if any of the cameras were shut off for certain periods of time, then switched back on.

I think you are onto something. I can imagine her sneaking her bf over. And, wasn't this the first night she left the closet? If so, that IMO is a good reason to go back to your room. She would not be nervous because the bf was going to be there with her. Maybe the stalker was watching and this set him off. He could have seen how the bf entered and come in the same way. All of that clicks for me!
What I can not work out from that scenario is that if the stalker was triggered by her letting the bf in and decided to go into the house that night he would have had to have the drugs with him...and drug OD seems like an odd murder to pull off in this case.
Is murder by prescrip. Drugs more common in women offenders?

Wonder how long Morgan had been seeing the current bf. could her stalker have been a jealous girl?

 

[steff13]

Is it normal procedure for an ME to rule a death Natural Causes if there was toxicology results pending? Wouldn't they hold the COD until they get the results?

Does that seem strange to anyone else? Why would he open himself to criticism of changing a COD if he was awaiting toxicology results?

I thought they usually waited until toxicology was back, too. I suppose it's possible he identified somehow that his ruling was natural causes pending the results of toxicology.

I get the natural causes ruling, if there wasn't obvious evidence of another cause of death. Young, seemingly healthy people do die for no apparent reason sometimes. But it does seen like he should have waited for toxicology results.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[MayraMM]

Found this not a patch though
Amitriptyline Hydrochloride 50mg - 100ct

MWI Veterinary Supply

Human doses are larger than that, so probably not for horses. (I've seen 100-mg tabs). I'm guessing for dogs perhaps? I'm assuming those are pills, since it says 100 ct.

Still wondering how big the dosage would be for a patch for a horse. For that matter, I wonder how big the actual patch would be.

 

[raine1212]

only this, I don't think there is a patch

Amitriptyline Compound Transdermal Gel, 100 mg/ml, 3ml Syringe

Email to a Friend



$30.00

• Buy 2 for $25.00 each and save 17%
• Buy 4 for $20.00 each and save 34%
• Buy 8 for $15.00 each and save 50%

Qty: Add to Cart
OR

• Add to Saved Items
• | Add to Compare

Description

Amitriptyline is used to treat behavior problems such as separation anxiety, fear of noises, and anxiety in dogs. It is also used to treat urinating out of the litter box, spraying, and anxiety in cats. Amitriptyline is a tricyclic antidepressant.

RX - Prescription Required



Be the first to review this product