CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[JBean]

Has the possibility of Morgan having schizophrenia been brought up yet? I see some similar patterns in a family member who was just diagnosed with this horrible disease.

Also I am curious if any of Morgans friends have anything to say about the stalking and paranoia. Has any of them come forward with anything to say? How about Morgans moms suspects? Have they commented publicly? This case is just so weird and I just don't know what to believe!!

The OP is pretty specific about there being no basis for discussion that Morgan suffered from mental illness at this time.
Thanks.

 

[Cazzie]

New blog post

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1333

 

[txsvicki]

I would think it's a bizarre case myself except there was no reason for that guy in the doo rag to be in their driveway much less one all geared up for something with a vest under his jacket and something long under his arm. I also believe that they saw a person between the cars, running, etc. I didn't realize until reading today that they suspect he's a serial murderer, but that would be the most reasonable motive unless he was trying to keep Morgan quiet about something.

 

[Livvy]

Okay I understand... I think. So no discussion at all about the possiblity that she commited suicide? That is usually mental illness.

 

[laurafairlie]

ITA When I was 19, I came home from work at 2am and found my back door kicked in (but all of my money still sitting on the table in plain sight). I didn't move to the closet; I spent the night at my parents' house, and packed my stuff the following day. I talked to a friend who owned some apartment buildings in a different town, and was moved out before the next night. Probably a bit extreme to most people, but having that come on top of people knocking on my doors in the middle of the night (not my windows), leaving things on the steps (rat poison, a dead cat, obituaries clipped from the newspaper, photos of cemeteries, among other things), I wasn't going to trust a new deadbolt to make any difference.

Again, it never occurred to me back then that these things might be a crime; I just considered them to be uncomfortable. I was sure I knew who it was, and why he did it. A guy a few years older than me lived across the road from me (about 1/2 mile out of town), and he had asked me several times to go out with him. I know he got very upset when I finally told him to stop asking because I was never going to change my mind. The knocking, etc. started within a couple of days.

I'm so sorry that happened to you! How frightening. I would have likely done the same thing.

 

[JBean]

Please if we could keep the discussion constructive that would be the most productive.
If you are interested in mocking members and otherwise derailing the thread- please take it somewhere else. It really makes it hard to review the information.

Differing opinions are always welcome- so regardless of where you stand on this case just be respectful of those that feel differently.


POST LANDS AT RANDOM ON THE THREAD.

quoting myself because tolerance on this issue will be zero.
Fair warning.

post lands at random

 

[JBean]

Okay I understand... I think. So no discussion at all about the possiblity that she commited suicide? That is usually mental illness.

It is possible that she committed suicide so that is certainly open for discussion.There is nothing available to us to support mental illness at this time.

 

[Livvy]

I do think Morgan committed suicide. I am very sorry her family is in so much pain... and will be for the rest of their lives. Been there, am there.

 

[Marshmallow]

We have been told that she was sleeping on the floor of the walk in closet in her parents' room for a time and that she did eventually return to sleeping in her own room of her own accord. She was active during this time frame, going out during the day to dance classes, to babysit, to see friends. It is not at all my impression that she was hiding in the closet cowering in fear.

yet with all that easy access to her away from the house, this 'stalker' chose to only go after her when she was locked in at home with her parents, dogs, and many security devices. That is confusing.

the problem with what we've been told, via blog, is that we have no idea what is fact and what is fiction.

 

[Confusion]

Is it common to check for those drugs on a tox screen?

They normally run tests for the most commonly abused drugs (especially things like alcohol, marijuana, opiates, etc.), but the original tests mainly just show if a class of drugs is present. If something shows up, they run more tests to find out what the drug is, what the levels are, if they contributed to death, if they may have accidentally (or intentionally, I don't believe they have a test that shows intent!) interacted with another drug to cause different or more severe symptoms, etc. I don't believe they would normally check for amitriptyline, but did because her old prescriptions were found in her room. MOO

If something shows up, a more sophisticated test is done, using techniques such as mass spectrometry, which can identify chemicals in substances by their mass and charge.
"These confirmatory methods are actually more sensitive," Robin says. "You can find lower quantities [of the substance]."
The more sophisticated tests can tell experts the exact concentration of the drug or other substance, says Hall, who is also clinical assistant professor of public health at Weatherford College in Weatherford, Texas.
Experts also can determine if two drugs found together may have had a synergistic effect -- which happens when two drugs similar in their actions produce an exaggerated effect when taken together. It's akin to ''one plus one equals five," Robins says.

Toxicology Screen

 

[21merc7]

It seems like from what I gather from previous discussions, that the dalmane and flexeril could have been used to make the process "easier" (for lack of a better word). This could be true in either suicide or murder. (IMO). I will admit that I did not read the articles explaining how this works exactly, so perhaps someone who did will weigh in with more detail.

This is the article:

http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Amitriptyline_Cocktail

However, from what I have been looking up today, it is easy to accidentally o.d. It seems this is a medication that you should only take what the doctor tells you to, more is NOT better!

 

[SmoothOperator]

But the stalker was a brilliant mastermind, he would have laid out plastic and cleaned the victim afterwards. You can be sure no evidence would be on the mattress.

There is no brilliant mastermind imo..how hard is it to get away with something in which there was never even the most basic of investigations ever done?..the answer is not hard at all and forensic evidence of the perp could have been literally covering the room or entire home..who in the hell would know due to the fact that an ME made an egregious error of stating the death was natural causes..therefor there was never so much as even a single print even dusted for..when a death is deemed natural LE cannot lift a finger to even so much as hint at looking for evidence..

This is the issue here..not the bs about moms inconsistencies..the issue here is this young womans death deserves what it rightfully should have had from the start..an investigation..that is the issue here and that is exactly what this family is begging for.

 

[MayraMM]

Any thoughts on the email hacking?

How hard is that to do?

I have a trash bin in my email program filled with email from my daughter, friends, my mothers; all are spam. Someone clicked something they shouldn't have and picked up a virus. Email is sent to all their email recipients in their name. They weren't hacked. A change of PW, and it stops.

Either that or my daughter really wants me to take ED pills! LOL!

 

[laurafairlie]

yet with all that easy access to her away from the house, this 'stalker' chose to only go after her when she was locked in at home with her parents, dogs, and many security devices. That is confusing.

the problem with what we've been told, via blog, is that we have no idea what is fact and what is fiction.

I personally do not believe the blog is fiction. I do see that inconsistencies about certain things exist, but I honestly do not think that is all that unusual. I had an incident recently where I attributed a minor conversation I had with someone about something trivial to my husband, and couldn't believe that he didn't remember the conversation until it finally dawned on me that it wasn't him I was taking to. Ive also walked away from a conversation and realized that I likely didn't explain myself very well or make much sense and wondered if the person I was talking to thought I was crazy.

My point is that sometimes things can get mixed up in one's head. I don't think this means the person is lying or making up an entire series of events that were likely terrifying and life altering. It can mean that some details may not be accurate/consistent.

I understand that others feel differently, as is their right. I am on the fence about how Morgan died, but I do believe that she was stalked/harassed.

I also don't think that we can get inside the head of a stalker. Without doing that or knowing what his/her motive is, it's difficult to say why he or she would choose to mostly leave Morgan alone when she was away from home, at least as far as we know.

JMO.

 

[hambirg]

When I searched, I did find companies that compounded drugs for horses, but detailed information on specific doses for drugs was not provided.

When I went on the FDA website (veterinary subsite), I could not find that amitriptyline was approved for any animal. For vets to be using this, I am assuming they are taking the human formulations using them off-label for animals, either scaling up or down based on the species.

Sorry, I am not anywhere near caught up. But as far as the amitriptyline and horses. Both amitriptyline and flurazapam are listed as banned substances for race horses (class II). This leads me to believe that they were used at some point for "doping" race horses.

Much like steroids for performance enhancing use in sports, you're not going to find much in the way of legitimate uses. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they are available to those that use them, but because they are banned, it is kept on the down low. Does that make sense?

http://www.dfa.arkansas.gov/offices/racingCommission/Documents/drug_list.pdf


ETA-This is the kind of thing I'm talking about .. .

OCI conducted an investigation into the sale and distribution of misbranded and unapproved veterinarian drugs by Equirace Health and Speed Products, a Philadelphia, Pennsylvania firm. Marvin Goldberg, the owner of Equirace, dispensed prescription veterinary drugs to people without valid prescriptions; some that he had smuggled into the United States from Canada. Although Equirace was not a registered drug distributor, Equirace was issuing price lists to customers of various prescription injectable drugs used to enhance performance in race horses.
During a search of Goldberg's residence, which also served as his business establishment, investigators found $40,000 worth of prescription injectable drugs along with documents evidencing his sale of drugs across the United States. OCI’s investigation revealed that Goldberg paid a licensed veterinarian, who later cooperated with the investigation, $2,000 per month to use his license to buy veterinary drugs which Goldberg sold through his business.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ICECI/...ntStory/EnforcementStoryArchive/UCM090311.pdf

 

[laurafairlie]

This is the article:

http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Amitriptyline_Cocktail

However, from what I have been looking up today, it is easy to accidentally o.d. It seems this is a medication that you should only take what the doctor tells you to, more is NOT better!

That s very interesting. I'll have to do more research myself. I had mostly ruled out accidental OD in my mind based on the high level of drugs found in her system, and still think it is a less likely option, but without having a good grasp on what those levels mean concretely, it's hard to know what may or may not have happened.

 

[Livvy]

This entire discussion seems to be only based on the blog. No news at all? Does anyone have a recent news link on the case. I am really curious if the other players like Morgans friends and the Mothers suspects have had anything to say in the media. Can't find a thing on it in the news.

 

[JBean]

yet with all that easy access to her away from the house, this 'stalker' chose to only go after her when she was locked in at home with her parents, dogs, and many security devices. That is confusing.

snipped for emphasis by JB

I think this is confusing as well. One explanation is that since this MO seem to be pretty consistent throughout reported events- it is perhaps this particular stalker's MO.
IOW, this is not a departure from what the reported stalker was doing all along-so from that standpoint it would make sense. KWIM?

Of course that is predicated on the belief that there was a stalker in the first place. If one does not think there was a stalker at all-then the rest of the conversation is pretty much moot.

 

[Confusion]

yet with all that easy access to her away from the house, this 'stalker' chose to only go after her when she was locked in at home with her parents, dogs, and many security devices. That is confusing.

the problem with what we've been told, via blog, is that we have no idea what is fact and what is fiction.

It happens, and not just in her case. It would make little sense (like any of this really does make sense) for him/her to do anything in front of their friends. I tend to think it's at least partially because home is where you're supposed to feel safe. Causing someone to feel safer almost anywhere else could very well be part of the thrill to some of these people.

I think of it like a burglar coming across 2 homes close to each other. One has no locks on the doors, no real security system, a big garage to park in so his vehicle won't be seen, and almost nothing inside he wants. The other one has a high fence with combination locks on the gate, guard dogs, motion detectors, extensive alarm systems, etc., and is filled with valuable things he would love to have. Some may choose to go for the quick and easy home, and just get the little he can. Another will choose to take the risks to try for what he really wants, even if it means prison, injury or even death.

I think that what could be gotten from harrassing Morgan when out with friends, at parties, etc. paled next to what could be gotten from taking away her safe haven, making people question her sanity, watching her slowly deteriorate due to stress and lack of sleep, and not leaving any evidence that you've done anything. For some people it's also just more fun to see if you can do it successfully. I'm sure the person had some excuses ready if s/he had been caught, but may not have even considered that to be a possibility. I'm not sure if this was a great analogy, but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.

 

[JaimeSommers]

I guess either you did imagine it or I just missed it. I don't remember anyone saying drugs had been injected into yoghurt through the foil in the heart of the grocery store. If that was actually said, I have to agree that it's highly unlikely. I know it was stated that one of the "suspects" works in the grocery store, that yoghurt could have been used to mask the taste of the drugs, and that drugs could have been injected. All three statements are true (he does/did work there, and the other things COULD have happened), but that doesn't mean that all 3 are related in any way. MOO

In case it helps, I clearly recall the discussion about the yogurt in the grocery store and also felt it was being surmised that the yogurt was being tainted in the store because people knew that Morgan had her favorite flavors. Will see if I can find the link(s), if no one else has done that yet.