CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[Confusion]

RSBM.

There was indeed such a discussion here, which I would categorize as a "brainstorming" session for the purpose of figgering out how the drugs could have entered M's system.

And we're still doing that, IMO.

I know there was a discussion about methods, I was involved in it. I just don't remember anyone saying that he had gone into the grocery store and injected yoghurt with drugs (which would have been rather pointless since a lot of people buy yoghurt so she isn't all that likely to be the one to eat it) I'm not saying it wasn't suggested, I'm just saying I don't remember reading it.

 

[cluciano63]

The murders most likely to end up in the news and in convictions are the ones that have an obvious motive and suspect and usually a smoking gun. The ones that end up in a burial and everyone walking away afterward usually do not.

There are are many different types of stalkers. Several boards ago, I posted two workplace stalking that included poisoning. In one case it was two firefighters ganging up on a fellow firefighter. In the other, it was a male boss who became obsessed with his female employee.

The family clearly believes there are those in community who had some sort of grudge against Morgan.

It just doesn't appear to me that the stalking events were very subtle...so why such a subtle and secretive manner of killing her finally...

 

[JBean]

RSBM.

There was indeed such a discussion here, which I would categorize as a "brainstorming" session for the purpose of figgering out how the drugs could have entered M's system.

And we're still doing that, IMO.

Hi Cazzie- just bouncing off your post.
I think this is one thing that people newer to the case are missing as it relates to some of the theories put forth. Some of the theories can be taken out of context and it makes them confusing.

To recap,one of the sticking points is that this was acute ami intoxication based on the report and the literature. There were no pill fragments found in her belly.
Members have been discussing theories as to how the overdose could have gotten onboard if she didn't take a bottle of pills-which she apparently didn't.

According to Toni, Doberson believes it would have had to have been in liquid form but less likely that it would have been injected.

 

[JBean]

Please if we could keep the discussion constructive that would be the most productive.
If you are interested in mocking members and otherwise derailing the thread- please take it somewhere else. It really makes it hard to review the information.

Differing opinions are always welcome- so regardless of where you stand on this case just be respectful of those that feel differently.


POST LANDS AT RANDOM ON THE THREAD.

 

[Cazzie]

I know there was a discussion about methods, I was involved in it. I just don't remember anyone saying that he had gone into the grocery store and injected yoghurt with drugs (which would have been rather pointless since a lot of people buy yoghurt so she isn't all that likely to be the one to eat it) I'm not saying it wasn't suggested, I'm just saying I don't remember reading it.

Oh, I know what you were saying.

Someone did make your point (in bold), at the time.

And the person (moi) who suggested the possibility of injecting liquid thru the yogurt foil also mentioned that it wouldn't have been foolproof (intended victim) unless they handed it to her. I.e., putting it in the family fridge would have been really risky, unless they were sure that only M ate yogurt (or that brand, flavor, etc.)...or didn't care who ate it. Also, possibly she consumed it shortly before returning home (or after arriving home).

I'm a bit frazzled and not even sure whether it's still a working theory...without knowing the volume of the liquid required to result in the levels in M's system. INAMP.

 

[Confusion]

<SNIP> it says a whole lot about this situation and what likely happened.

She could have easily gotten a new prescription for a mood stabilizer if she needed one, so why would she secretly buy/steal drugs she already had at home (and still had there after her death) rather than get something more effective? Her parents, friends and doctor did not believe she was depressed. I don't know about the friends, but the family, her doctor and Doctor Dobersen do not believe she committed suicide. I may think I'm pretty smart (once in a while), but I trust their opinions more than mine or those of anyone else who never knew her. MOO

 

[Confusion]

Oh, I know what you were saying.

Someone did make your point (in bold), at the time.

And the person (moi) who suggested the possibility of injecting liquid thru the yogurt foil also mentioned that it wouldn't have been foolproof (intended victim) unless they handed it to her. I.e., putting it in the family fridge would have been really risky, unless they knew that only M ate yogurt (or that brand, flavor, etc.). Also, possibly she consumed it shortly before returning home (or after arriving home).

But did they stay it was done "in the heart of the supermarket"? That's the part I don't remember. Unfortunately, my memory isn't always that great though. TIA

 

[Cazzie]

It just doesn't appear to me that the stalking events were very subtle...so why such a subtle and secretive manner of killing her finally...

To get away with it?

 

[AndiLA]

Just to add credence to the posts stating amitryptaline isn't only used for antidepressant purposes: my husband recently broke his hand (boxers fracture, 5th metacarpal) and they were concerned with his ongoing pain and complaints of numbness. They were afraid he'd also had some nerve damage, due to the break and gave him an rx saying it can help alleviate some of the symptoms he was experiencing. They also warned it has sedative qualities...and they were right. 6'2, 190lbs and it knocked him on his @$$. Drool on the pillow and everything.

 

[steff13]

I didn't realize that the drug (ami-whatever) was something Morgan had previously been prescribed.

If Morgan was murdered, is it just an odd coincidence that the murderer used a drug Morgan had already been prescribed, or did he know that? It was my understanding that Morgan stopped taking the meds she was on about a year prior to the stalking, so who would have known she had been prescribed the drug?

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[AndiLA]

To get away with it?

Such a coward. Ugh.

 

[steff13]

To get away with it?

If I were going to kill someone and make it look like a suicide, I would be sure they left a note. That would go a long way toward removing all doubt. I've seen theories that someone snuck in and forced her to take drugs at knife point, why not force her to write a note? Or type one and leave it on the computer?

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[Cazzie]

But did they stay it was done "in the heart of the supermarket"? That's the part I don't remember. Unfortunately, my memory isn't always that great though. TIA

Yep (IIRC! LOL) someone did suggest the supermarket/grocery store as a possibility for where the theoretical tainted yogurt could have changed hands.

But it came up while discussing the possibility of a prescription changing hands there (since TI had said in the blog that that was where the family filled their prescriptions).

Whew, that was tough (said I was frazzled).

 

[Confusion]

I didn't realize that the drug (ami-whatever) was something Morgan had previously been prescribed.

If Morgan was murdered, is it just an odd coincidence that the murderer used a drug Morgan had already been prescribed, or did he know that? It was my understanding that Morgan stopped taking the meds she was on about a year prior to the stalking, so who would have known she had been prescribed the drug?

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TI said that it was about 1 1/2 years before her death that she quit taking it. One of the reasons I keep coming back to it having to be someone she knew fairly well (most likely for years since she hadn't been taking the recently) is that it's just not something that is likely to be common knowledge. It makes me think it was done by someone who knew her when she was still taking it and/or had been in her room and saw the prescription there.

I haven't heard where she kept them, so it's possible that they could have been easily seen by someone who did break in while nobody was home, but it doesn't feel like that to me. I'm still not even totally convinced that she didn't let the person in on the night she died, possibly turning off the camera/s long enough for him/her to get past.

 

[Snowball58]

To get away with it?

Or because perhaps death wasn't the intended result?

I've searched and searched, but has anyone determined what the equivalent pill count would have been for the amount of drugs found in her system? There was discussion about it being the equivalent to hundreds of pills, then another person said just a few pills, and I never saw any consensus on this? Forgive me if I missed it - I really did search!

Can someone help me out on this? I know they found no pills in her stomach, but if she had taken the drugs in pill form, how many would she have had to take?

TIA!

 

[Cazzie]

If I were going to kill someone and make it look like a suicide, I would be sure they left a note. That would go a long way toward removing all doubt. I've seen theories that someone snuck in and forced her to take drugs at knife point, why not force her to write a note? Or type one and leave it on the computer?

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I'd probably be afraid they would put a subtle yet blatant-to-the-family clue in their handwriting (or somehow).

But I think the "forced" theory is one of the less likely theories. JMO.

IIRC, I don't think TI has said anything about M's computer, other than that LE took it, along with her cell phone (and some other things), and they were later returned. JMO since I'm not 100% sure.

 

[laurafairlie]

Or because perhaps death wasn't the intended result?

I've searched and searched, but has anyone determined what the equivalent pill count would have been for the amount of drugs found in her system? There was discussion about it being the equivalent to hundreds of pills, then another person said just a few pills, and I never saw any consensus on this? Forgive me if I missed it - I really did search!

Can someone help me out on this? I know they found no pills in her stomach, but if she had taken the drugs in pill form, how many would she have had to take?

TIA!

The only thing I've been able to glean from conversations about the drug levels and how many pills would have been required is that it's a very complicated topic involving many variables and we don't really know the answer.

 

[Confusion]

If I were going to kill someone and make it look like a suicide, I would be sure they left a note. That would go a long way toward removing all doubt. I've seen theories that someone snuck in and forced her to take drugs at knife point, why not force her to write a note? Or type one and leave it on the computer?

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I wouldn't. It seems like in a lot of staged suicides it's the fake notes that first draw suspicion. Then again, I don't believe I'd ever murder someone; if I did, I wouldn't go to that much trouble. If you're going to break in and force her at knife point to drink something, why not just use the knife to kill her? If you're going to kill her with an OD, why not use something more widely used and in a form that wouldn't be questioned.

My theory for the day is that it was someone who wanted to stage a suicide to keep from being caught, but wanted it to be off enough to make sure the family knew it wasn't suicide. I'll probably have a totally different theory tomorrow. :banghead:

 

[Sonya610]

Her parents, friends and doctor did not believe she was depressed.

For the record I do not think she just was depressed either. I have been clinically depressed and while I had dark thoughts a plenty, I never hid in closets or heard tapping on the windows. Those are not signs of simple depression.

 

[steff13]

Or perhaps she actually committed suicide. I'm still not convinced that's not the case.

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