CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[MayraMM]

I wondered the same but then I thought of this possibility: could the stalker have been following behind Steve around the perimeter of the house by sticking close by the house itself while Steve ran through the yard? I can't imagine that those cams could cover both the area right up against the house AND the yard surrounding the house. If there were blind spots in the network of cameras, wouldn't they have to be directly up against the house? This is one way the motion detector lights could go off, but nothing would be visible on camera.

I would think he still would have shown up before the fact and been caught on tape as he approached the house, and then again later as he left, but so far no one has appeared on any of the 6 cameras they got and put up to cover the entire perimeter of the house.

 

[Confusion]

I've gone through the first part of my list of questions, and answered with possibilities/options I've been able to come up with for now. If you have any others you think should have been added, please let me know. Once I get through all of the questions I feel I need answers to, I want to go through them all and try piecing together the most likely chain of events. TIA for any help you can giveand please forgive my strange formatting. It makes it easier for me, but probably harder for others.

1. What actually killed her. That includes how much of the drugs she would have to take to get those levels in her system, whether it was the effects of the drugs or a complication (pulmonary edema, etc.)

Amitriptyline poisoning - unknown amount needed to get levels tested
Liquid – given orally
Liquid – given by injection
Tablets – crushed and hidden in food or drink
Powder – hidden in food or drink
Gel Caps – Emptied into food or drink
Flexeril - not likely to have caused death, but drug interaction may have contributed
Given by friend for muscle pain/spasms
Given by friend to help sleep
Bought for one of the above reasons
Combined with amitriptyline and administered with it (as above)
Dalmane - not likely to have caused death, but drug interaction may have contributed
Given by friend for sleep
Bought for sleep
Taken from friend's grandmother for sleep
Mixed with amitriptyline and/or Flexeril as above
Pulmonary Edema
Brought on by drug overdose
Brought on by inhalation of stomach contents
Brought on by undiagnosed heart or lung disease
Not likely because nothing turned up in the autopsy

2. How the drugs got into her system. This means - why were there drugs in her blood and stomach but no fragments, no 'stomach contents' (it was stated that the stomach was empty), no injection sites (as far as TI knows), no drug paraphernalia, empty bottles, etc. in the room.

Liquid – swallowed could be put a glass water bottle in she always carried with her everywhere or drink she had before going home
Liquid - injected
Powder – swallowed
Powder – inhaled
Powder – combined with water or other fluid and used as liquid above
Powder – combined with water or other fluid and used as gel below
Tablet – crushed and swallowed
Tablet – crushed and combined with fluid, as with liquid or gel
Gel – swallowed
Gel – trans-dermal application

3. Why the dogs didn't react that night.
Tessi did react somewhat, which led to her spending the night in the parents' room.
Wylah was a puppy and hadn't become much of a guard dog yet.
Wylah was drugged too
The person was known to the dogs
The person didn't actually enter the house that night
The person was hidden in the home/garage when the family came home and didn't alarm the dogs

4. How someone could have entered her room that night without being seen or heard, and without leaving any kind of evidence.

Learned the code for the door and entered while the family was gone, and:
Hid in an unused room until everyone was asleep
Unlocked the garage door (and the interior door to the garage)
Unlocked the unused sliding glass door.
Unlocked a window or opened one in a spare room
Mixed the drugs with something she would be likely to eat or drink later.
Was invited in because s/he was an unlikely suspect
Somehow managed to give her the drugs before she went home and never entered the home

5. Why nobody, other than the deer, was caught on film that night.
Knew how the cameras worked (timing and areas covered) and worked around them
Kept trees or other objects between self and cameras
Very lucky (not at all likely)
Nobody was there

6. Why the stalker would choose that (a)time and (b)method to kill her.
(a)
Was almost caught recently
Was becoming bored with just stalking
Reactions weren't strong enough anymore
All of the security measures were too much work for too little reward
Didn't mean to kill her, but used wrong doses/drugs

(b)
Wanted to convince authorities that it WAS NOT murder to avoid investigation
Wanted to make sure the family knew it WAS murder
Used whatever was on hand
Wanted to prove intelligence by outsmarting authorities
Lacked physical strength to use physical violence
Couldn't handle seeing blood
Miscalculated and death was accidental
Wanted it to point to B & K if it was investigated

7. What made her last day different from those before it. That would include (a)the lack of appetite, (b)the preparations for going out, (c)not responding to texts, (d)losing her temper with TI, (e)other
(a)
Coming down with cold/flu/virus
Had already ingested drugs somehow the previous day/night
Exhaustion from lack of sleep
Stress
(b)
plans to meet the parents! (or grandparent, whatever the case may be)
happy because her relationship was changing direction
feeling closure with the old bf so she could totally enjoy the new one
(c)
At grandma's house and didn't want to explain what was going on with the texts
Was enjoying the company and didn't want to go home – afraid she'd have to go anyway
Didn't know her phone had been shut off
(d)
Not feeling well
Tired of having to be treated like a little girl
Frustrated with having to leave bf to go home
Guilt for worrying parents in order to relax and enjoy herself a bit
Upset already by something someone had said or done before she got home
(e)
Ex-bf at her house working with her father early in the day
Took bf to apply for jobs
Had breakfast date scheduled for next day
Was texting bf before going to bed
Told mother she had visited a friend's house (10-15 minutes) and had been at the same house 2 weeks ago, felt sick and thought someone slipped her something then

 

[MayraMM]

So, Confusion, as I understand it you're working off a murder by stalker/friend theory and are not entertaining suicide or murder by anyone else at this time, correct? In other words, you're not asking for anyone to give input on any other theories since you're working this angle at this moment?

 

[AbbeyR]

http://morganingram.com/stalking.html

Now, the caption next to the picture totally contradicts the image of an "upbeat" Morgan who was handling things well.... <snipped>

This mom was worried for her kid. Very. And I don;t believe for a moment it was because Morgan was a bit tired.

Good post, Gitana. I agree, on all points. I also think Mom's account of her last night is contradictory in similar ways. She says M.was happy about the new boyfriend and all was well, but there seem to be signs that Mom was worried and that Morgan may not have been herself (the 4 hour period where Morgan did not answer the photo, her coming in late and going to her room, sending dad in to talk to her, etc.)

On another note, I was just looking at the photos on that page and wondering... who took the many photos of Morgan during this period. Are most of them self-portraits or taken by someone else? I'm also curious what the "Fate" message says in the photo (the one with the cemetery in the background).

 

[Cazzie]

Excellent, Confusion!

I'd add to 7: ex-bf at her house working with her father early in the day
took bf to apply for jobs (the 4 hours + grandma's)
texted with him before bedtime
had breakfast date scheduled for next day

 

[Confusion]

Wow. I'd would say it's priceless and very well said.

Many thanks. I just wish I had noticed before that my "mouth" is spelled with a g instead of a t in that post! In highschool I eventually got up to 43 wpm, with about 30 errors!

I would think he still would have shown up before the fact and been caught on tape as he approached the house, and then again later as he left, but so far no one has appeared on any of the 6 cameras they got and put up to cover the entire perimeter of the house.

I was thinking about that tonight too. I was wondering (if the stalker and/or murderer (if there is one) actually was a friend of someone in the family) how likely it is that the person new about the internal set up of the cameras or how obvious it was to someone who entered that room. If s/he knew about it, would it be possible to go through and erase any signs of him/her being there? I have no idea what kind of set up they had there, but if it's motion activated like everything else they used (I can't remember what she said, and I'm too lazy to go through again to look it up right now), it shouldn't be hard at all to just delete the video from that time period. If it was recording constantly, it would be much more noticable because there'd be a chunk of time missing.

 

[Confusion]

So, Confusion, as I understand it you're working off a murder by stalker/friend theory and are not entertaining suicide or murder by anyone else at this time, correct? In other words, you're not asking for anyone to give input on any other theories since you're working this angle at this moment?

Not at all. I'm working off the fact that there was apparently someone stalking/harassing M and/or her parents, and that M is dead. I tried hard not to include anything about who administered anything, so it could be her, a stalker, a friend, the mailman, or anyone else. As I said, I want as many options listed for each thing as possible (except for mental health issues, etc. which we can't discuss) so I can look at all of them and try to piece together some feasible scenatios.

I will eventually be getting to things like what could have been causing the noises, setting off the motion detecters, etc.

 

[Cazzie]

Confusion, also for 7: visited same house (10-15 minutes) as 2 weeks ago, felt sick and thought someone slipped her something

For 2: TI said M always carried a glass water bottle with her everywhere

 

[MayraMM]

Many thanks. I just wish I had noticed before that my "mouth" is spelled with a g instead of a t in that post! In highschool I eventually got up to 43 wpm, with about 30 errors!



I was thinking about that tonight too. I was wondering (if the stalker and/or murderer (if there is one) actually was a friend of someone in the family) how likely it is that the person new about the internal set up of the cameras or how obvious it was to someone who entered that room. If s/he knew about it, would it be possible to go through and erase any signs of him/her being there? I have no idea what kind of set up they had there, but if it's motion activated like everything else they used (I can't remember what she said, and I'm too lazy to go through again to look it up right now), it shouldn't be hard at all to just delete the video from that time period. If it was recording constantly, it would be much more noticable because there'd be a chunk of time missing.

I wonder if the tapes are time stamped. I also thought that if M was sneaking in a guy or something, she herself might have turned off the cameras long enough for the person to get in, but it seems the cameras were in mom and dad's room, so it's not very likely that was the case.

I also wondered if they turned the cameras on only at night, or left them running 24/7. Since they were using the lights going on and M's texts as time frames, it would have been easier to just check those times on the film, and not check all other times, just to keep from going bugged eyed staring at videos all day. On the other hand, if they had activity during the day, you'd think they would have had the cameras on 23/7 and hopefully they're archived on the computer.

 

[MayraMM]

Not at all. I'm working off the fact that there was apparently someone stalking/harassing M and/or her parents, and that M is dead. I tried hard not to include anything about who administered anything, so it could be her, a stalker, a friend, the mailman, or anyone else. As I said, I want as many options listed for each thing as possible (except for mental health issues, etc. which we can't discuss) so I can look at all of them and try to piece together some feasible scenatios.

I will eventually be getting to things like what could have been causing the noises, setting off the motion detecters, etc.

My concern is that some of the speculation, other than what was listed as the official COD, would be against the rules of the board. There are some options that are unpleasant, but possible, and others that involve at least referencing they-who-must-not-be-named.

I wish there was a private place that we could go and discuss some of the more "out there" theories without leaving an internet footprint and opening up a can of worms; not to accuse or besmirch anyone, but to be able to freely discuss ALL the possibilities without restraint.

 

[Confusion]

My concern is that some of the speculation, other than what was listed as the official COD, would be against the rules of the board. There are some options that are unpleasant, but possible, and others that involve at least referencing they-who-must-not-be-named.

I wish there was a private place that we could go and discuss some of the more "out there" theories without leaving an internet footprint and opening up a can of worms; not to accuse or besmirch anyone, but to be able to freely discuss ALL the possibilities without restraint.

I have one of those places, my sons are great sounding boards. Unfortunately they aren't a whole lot of help sometimes. My 35 year-old told me it was obvious to him that she died of natural causes (after I was telling him about the autopsy results). His theory is that if you put that many drugs into a person, it's perfectly natural for them to die. He also came to the conclusion that death was also a natural thing if you hold a pillow over a person's face for 10 minutes. I just don't know where they get it from! :slap:

 

[MayraMM]

I have one of those places, my sons are great sounding boards. Unfortunately they aren't a whole lot of help sometimes. My 35 year-old told me it was obvious to him that she died of natural causes (after I was telling him about the autopsy results). His theory is that if you put that many drugs into a person, it's perfectly natural for them to die. He also came to the conclusion that death was also a natural thing if you hold a pillow over a person's face for 10 minutes. I just don't know where they get it from! :slap:

He has a point, you know. That and everyone dies of heart failure; the heart fails to pump.

 

[rollinginit]

Remember that stalking story I told everybody about on the ID channel Stalking: someone's watching? The one where the stalker broke into her house and took pictures of her while she was asleep...... Here's the article about her.
http://www.thesuburbanite.com/communities/x951992960/Victim-s-story-detailed-in-documentary?zc_p=0
This creepy guy also made videos they found in his house. On the video's he would say "I love to stalk Cameron" or he would say "I'm going to stalker the *advertiser censored** out of Cameron" Then the video would scan the room and there would be photos of her everywhere. He also stalked her parents.

Anyway, I think it's hard to pin-point exactly what a stalker would do. They seem very unhinged.

I do think M looked worn down in that last photo. I think being stalked would have to make you feel like he.ll. It's the constant state of unknown.

I know Cameron said in her interview with the show....she would go up and down in feelings. She said some days she would feel the need to stand up to him and not take it anymore. Then she said some days she would feel so deflated, especially when he would be there and the law couldn't do anything.

 

[21merc7]

Weight loss.

We don't know how much, or if, any. The doctor would. IDK if she had an ED, but being in yoga and ballet, also her age, would suggest it is highly possible.

Stress, at least for me, will make me lose weight. I could drink milkshakes all day and still lose it. Otherwise I can think of food and gain, ha.

Stress can give you that long drawn face, dark circles from lack of proper sleep. It seems she was stressed about stalker, issues at home with all the gadgets, all the texting, and most importantly having to talk with LE and detectives.

The only way we will know is if we ever see any medical records from any visits around that time.

MOO

 

[21merc7]

I've wondered about that, too. The possible explanation I have is that perhaps these inconsistencies are the evidence of psychologically self-preserving denial? Meaning, if they can convince themselves by acting as though everything is normal that indeed everything IS normal and there is nothing to be afraid of, then somehow this would decrease the ACTUAL threat this unknown stalker poses. I'd be curious to hear from those on the board who have suffered a stalker. How do you deal with what I would presume to be constant terror, that even as you go about your daily lives lurks in the background of every moment, even moments that presumably should be joyous and care-free? Do you "protect" yourself from this terror and its psychological and physical effects by convincing yourself somehow that the stalker is not that big of a threat, regardless of what "reality" presents as true?



I wondered the same but then I thought of this possibility: could the stalker have been following behind Steve around the perimeter of the house by sticking close by the house itself while Steve ran through the yard? I can't imagine that those cams could cover both the area right up against the house AND the yard surrounding the house. If there were blind spots in the network of cameras, wouldn't they have to be directly up against the house? This is one way the motion detector lights could go off, but nothing would be visible on camera.

1st paragraph:

Yes, you fight it a lot. You get tired of being scared. If you are reckless, like me, you take the dog out in the dark. That being said, if you were young and lived with your parents, would either of them let you out when it is dark and that is the only time the noises occur? Wouldn't one of them let the dog out instead? jmo

2nd paragraph:

No stalker was there setting the motion detectors off. If they, in fact, were coming back on behind him, it seems they were still detecting him and they were set at a low amount of time to click off. It is clear no one was behind him. They pick up at a very decent distance, so they were still picking up on him. jmo

 

[rollinginit]

I agree with a lot of you: Why not do ALL YOU CAN to protect your loved one, by being OFFENSIVE and doing WHATEVER it took to stop any harassing/stalking/bullying. I'd do anything. This is why it doesn't make sense, the Ingrams' responses seem strange.
By golly, I hope the reality of this "case" is not turning sour, I hope Morgan really gets justice! Even if it's to mourn her passing, suicide or not. lease:

I agree with you, but what exactly can you do or what would you do any different? It's easy to say after the fact, not so easy when you are living in it.

Even if they did catch this stalker's face really good on video, I'm still not to sure about what LE could have done. Stalker could have easily said he was just walking through the yard. Even if they did get a PPO or some other paper on stalker, that is still no guarantee he is going to quit.

Yes, they could have got bigger and meaner breeds of dogs to guard them. One thing, those types of dogs take money. Why in the world would anybody invest in a "guard" dog breed and not spend money to have them trained? I have 3 german shepherds and I can tell you from experience......I spend a lot of money every year for my dogs. They are not the type of dog you throw out there and say "hey now, guard me" If you do that, most likely all you will end up with is a lawsuit waiting to happen....or a dog that does nothing.
It's been my experience......big breed dogs take a lot of work. A big commitment and a lot of money.
Some areas ban certain breeds. I KNOW for a fact, some homeowners/renters insurance will not cover you with certain breeds.

I have one GSD that wouldn't do anything if somebody broke in. He would probably run up to the suspect and wag his tail and lick him. He may run up to him with one of his babies (he loves stuffed dolls) and give it to him. He's a huge goofball.

These are JMO.

 

[keeponsearching]

I was thinking about Morgan as I laid in be last night. I am actually confused over the drugs found in her system. I just can't see her taking all the drugs to help sleep and having an accidental overdose.

I can't help but think that yes Morgan was being stalked, but also the stalker was obsessed with her, and we are missing more then we know per Morgan. So Morgan gets this new boyfriend and she is happy. Which turns around and makes the stalker angry.

I can totally see how people could debunk this but anything at this point is possible.

MOO

 

[NancyA]

I've gone through the first part of my list of questions, and answered with possibilities/options I've been able to come up with for now. If you have any others you think should have been added, please let me know. Once I get through all of the questions I feel I need answers to, I want to go through them all and try piecing together the most likely chain of events. TIA for any help you can giveand please forgive my strange formatting. It makes it easier for me, but probably harder for others.

1. What actually killed her. That includes how much of the drugs she would have to take to get those levels in her system, whether it was the effects of the drugs or a complication (pulmonary edema, etc.)

Amitriptyline poisoning - unknown amount needed to get levels tested
Liquid &#8211; given orally
Liquid &#8211; given by injection
Tablets &#8211; crushed and hidden in food or drink
Powder &#8211; hidden in food or drink
Gel Caps &#8211; Emptied into food or drink
Flexeril - not likely to have caused death, but drug interaction may have contributed
Given by friend for muscle pain/spasms
Given by friend to help sleep
Bought for one of the above reasons
Combined with amitriptyline and administered with it (as above)
Dalmane - not likely to have caused death, but drug interaction may have contributed
Given by friend for sleep
Bought for sleep
Taken from friend's grandmother for sleep
Mixed with amitriptyline and/or Flexeril as above
Pulmonary Edema
Brought on by drug overdose
Brought on by inhalation of stomach contents
Brought on by undiagnosed heart or lung disease
Not likely because nothing turned up in the autopsy

2. How the drugs got into her system. This means - why were there drugs in her blood and stomach but no fragments, no 'stomach contents' (it was stated that the stomach was empty), no injection sites (as far as TI knows), no drug paraphernalia, empty bottles, etc. in the room.

Liquid &#8211; swallowed could be put a glass water bottle in she always carried with her everywhere or drink she had before going home
Liquid - injected
Powder &#8211; swallowed
Powder &#8211; inhaled
Powder &#8211; combined with water or other fluid and used as liquid above
Powder &#8211; combined with water or other fluid and used as gel below
Tablet &#8211; crushed and swallowed
Tablet &#8211; crushed and combined with fluid, as with liquid or gel
Gel &#8211; swallowed
Gel &#8211; trans-dermal application

3. Why the dogs didn't react that night.
Tessi did react somewhat, which led to her spending the night in the parents' room.
Wylah was a puppy and hadn't become much of a guard dog yet.
Wylah was drugged too
The person was known to the dogs
The person didn't actually enter the house that night
The person was hidden in the home/garage when the family came home and didn't alarm the dogs

4. How someone could have entered her room that night without being seen or heard, and without leaving any kind of evidence.

Learned the code for the door and entered while the family was gone, and:
Hid in an unused room until everyone was asleep
Unlocked the garage door (and the interior door to the garage)
Unlocked the unused sliding glass door.
Unlocked a window or opened one in a spare room
Mixed the drugs with something she would be likely to eat or drink later.
Was invited in because s/he was an unlikely suspect
Somehow managed to give her the drugs before she went home and never entered the home

5. Why nobody, other than the deer, was caught on film that night.
Knew how the cameras worked (timing and areas covered) and worked around them
Kept trees or other objects between self and cameras
Very lucky (not at all likely)
Nobody was there

6. Why the stalker would choose that (a)time and (b)method to kill her.
(a)
Was almost caught recently
Was becoming bored with just stalking
Reactions weren't strong enough anymore
All of the security measures were too much work for too little reward
Didn't mean to kill her, but used wrong doses/drugs

(b)
Wanted to convince authorities that it WAS NOT murder to avoid investigation
Wanted to make sure the family knew it WAS murder
Used whatever was on hand
Wanted to prove intelligence by outsmarting authorities
Lacked physical strength to use physical violence
Couldn't handle seeing blood
Miscalculated and death was accidental
Wanted it to point to B & K if it was investigated

7. What made her last day different from those before it. That would include (a)the lack of appetite, (b)the preparations for going out, (c)not responding to texts, (d)losing her temper with TI, (e)other
(a)
Coming down with cold/flu/virus
Had already ingested drugs somehow the previous day/night
Exhaustion from lack of sleep
Stress
(b)
plans to meet the parents! (or grandparent, whatever the case may be)
happy because her relationship was changing direction
feeling closure with the old bf so she could totally enjoy the new one
(c)
At grandma's house and didn't want to explain what was going on with the texts
Was enjoying the company and didn't want to go home &#8211; afraid she'd have to go anyway
Didn't know her phone had been shut off
(d)
Not feeling well
Tired of having to be treated like a little girl
Frustrated with having to leave bf to go home
Guilt for worrying parents in order to relax and enjoy herself a bit
Upset already by something someone had said or done before she got home
(e)
Ex-bf at her house working with her father early in the day
Took bf to apply for jobs
Had breakfast date scheduled for next day
Was texting bf before going to bed
Told mother she had visited a friend's house (10-15 minutes) and had been at the same house 2 weeks ago, felt sick and thought someone slipped her something then

Confusion, I am very impressed with your breakdown list, I'll be the first to support a call to have it added to the sticky timeline/no discussion threads as a sleuthing tool. Maybe a subsection could be added to section 4 (redded by me about lack of evidence) to cover things noticed as missing or out of place which were a factor (albeit unremarked) at the time of M's death. I'm thinking of the missing gold jewelry, the panic button, the lack of an obvious drug mixing and delivery device, the positioning of M's body etc and the significance, if any, of these to the case.

 

[Sonya610]

Yes, they could have got bigger and meaner breeds of dogs to guard them. One thing, those types of dogs take money. Why in the world would anybody invest in a "guard" dog breed and not spend money to have them trained? I have 3 german shepherds and I can tell you from experience......I spend a lot of money every year for my dogs. They are not the type of dog you throw out there and say "hey now, guard me" If you do that, most likely all you will end up with is a lawsuit waiting to happen....or a dog that does nothing.
It's been my experience......big breed dogs take a lot of work. A big commitment and a lot of money.

The true livestock guardian breeds don't need to be trained to protect, it is hardwired into them that once they bond, they fiercely protect their home/ people, livestock, etc....

They are awesome for home protection and as house dogs (but they are large, usually 100-130 lbs) because they spend most of the day lounging, BUT the owner must have good fencing and locked gates to keep innocent strangers out. They can't be trained to be called off if they sense a real threat (livestock don't tell them what to do). They are a good choice for people that want a very protective non-hyper low prey drive dog, but not a good choice for inexperienced dog owners.

Not suggesting that was the answer for this family, they didn't even have fencing and probably weren't dog knowledgeble enough, but it is something for those that like protective breeds to consider.

 

[Marshmallow]

mods bear with me and change anything if it seems over that line we can't cross.

could Morgan's weight loss/gauntness be a contributer to pulmonary edema when combined with dosages of the meds found in her system. Is it possible that her weight issues were chronic or off and on and meds that might have caused sleepiness became lethal when taken w/ the lower weight condition?