CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

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I would imagine that if M went to the doc's and she was underweight or had recently lost a significant amount, the doc would have talked to her about it and later (after her passing when the doc spoke with mom) would have mentioned it.

I would like to see another photo close to that time period to see what M looks like. The dark, baggy sweater and pic taken at dusk or under cloudy skies could really make things look worse than normal.

That's totally true. But mom wrote the caption next to that photo. Read it.

ETA: You'll see what I mean.
 
I would imagine that if M went to the doc's and she was underweight or had recently lost a significant amount, the doc would have talked to her about it and later (after her passing when the doc spoke with mom) would have mentioned it.

I would like to see another photo close to that time period to see what M looks like. The dark, baggy sweater and pic taken at dusk or under cloudy skies could really make things look worse than normal.


If I am not mistaken (I am certain I just read this in an email from my hospital) HIPPA still applies after death. Particularly someone over the age of 18. So Morgan's MD could not have spoken to her MD and gotten info after her death. And LE would have needed a court order to get info from the MS.

*goes off to check this out

later that night.........I find this


Q: Who may access a deceased person’s medical records?

A: The patient’s designated personal representative or the legal executor of his or her estate has a right under law to access the records. These are the only people who by law have a right to view or copy the records.

If the patient died without naming a personal representative or executor, state law determines who by default possesses the right. States often establish a hierarchy of persons based on their relationship to the deceased person. Typically this begins with an adult member of the immediate family, such as a spouse, child, or sibling.

Q: What legal documents ensure the right to access a deceased patient’s medical records?

A: A combination of the patient’s death certificate and a court document establishing estate executorship is sufficient to establish one’s right. In some states, alternative documentation can also be used.

Q: Do I have to go to probate court and become the executor of the deceased’s estate in order to access his medical records?

A: It depends on the state. Some state laws require people to submit legal proof of executorship to healthcare organizations in order to access records.

Other states follow a hierarchy of who becomes, by default, the personal representative of a deceased patient if the patient dies without naming an executor (as described above).

Q: How do I find my state’s requirements and restrictions for releasing a deceased patient’s medical record?

A: The HIM department supervisor or the privacy officer of a local hospital can provide details on your state’s release-of-information laws. A local legal assistance group, particularly one that assists seniors, is another good resource.

Q: Does HIPAA forbid me from seeing my deceased relative’s medical records?

A: The federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) grants privacy protections to a person’s medical information even after death. However, HIPAA also establishes that a patient’s designated personal representative has a legal right to access the patient’s records. A healthcare provider must provide the records to his or her designated personal representative if one exists.

However, HIPAA leaves the definition of a personal representative up to individual state law. In general, in order to be a personal representative of another adult, you must have legal authority to act for the adult in making decisions related to his or her healthcare. If the person is deceased, you must have received the legal authority over his or her estate, as defined by state law.

Source:http://journal.ahima.org/2011/03/23/accessing-deceased-patient-health-records-faq/
 
If I am not mistaken (I am certain I just read this in an email from my hospital) HIPPA still applies after death. Particularly someone over the age of 18. So Morgan's MD could not have spoken to her MD and gotten info after her death. And LE would have needed a court order to get info from the MS.

*goes off to check this out

"Under HIPAA, a patient's privacy rights survive death and last forever. We are not sure how much sense that makes, but that is what the rule provides. A deceased patient's legally authorized executor or administrator, or a person who is otherwise legally authorized to act on the behalf of the deceased patient or patient's estate, can exercise the privacy rights of a patient." http://worldprivacyforum.org/hipaa/HipaaGuide7.html

But, As a public heath authority, the medical examiner system is exempt under the HIPAA regulations. Thus, local medical examiners should be able to continue to conduct inquiries and investigations as they typically would, which should include contacting law enforcement." http://www.schs.state.nc.us/hipaa/references/DPH-OCME-HIPAA-Guidance-for-Law-Enforcement.pdf

So the ME could access her records for the purposes of the death investigation, but not her mother, so if M's doctor did talk to mom after her death, that would have been a HIPAA violation, unless her mom was the legally authorized executor or administrator.

Mary beat me to it! I have to read and sign the HIPAA rules every year, too!
 
Oh and for those who say Morgan may have been repeatedly poisoned or drugged before her death, well 36 hours before she died, her gynecologist said she was perfectly healthy. And being poisoned does not make someone "sad" or to need cheering up. It makes them sick.

Per the mom, the Dr said she was perfectly healthy. Hmmm, given that M was 20 isn't it odd the Dr would tell the mom the outcome of the appointment...Dr/patient privilege, and all? M went in separately, correct? The mom stated this was a yearly appointment? Well, I know women who go to their gynecologists for anti-depressants. No telling what M told her gynecologist. She very well could have asked the Dr not to tell her mom.
 
I just underwent a medical procedure a couple weeks ago with a new Doctor. Therefore I had to fill out a bunch of new forms. With them they gave me another form that asked who can they release my results to or talk to about my medical condition. I put down three names. Wouldn't these people be able to access my records because I've written their names down on a form for that purpose?
 
Mom mentioned at one point that M was due for an interview to discuss the stalking a week after she had died. Did mom mention where this interview was supposed to take place? (The police had already been to the house and took their statements as of the blog today, and mom also mentioned that they were there 2 days before her death, so I was curious where the interview date was supposed to take place and the purpose.)

Lets see I know for certain part of the answer to what you're asking, but cannot recall for certain about LE being at the home 2 days prior to her death(I'll have to look back do you recall if you read it in the blog, comments, or radio interview..and yes it does make my head spin attempting to recall which media form the different statements came from..lol..the only thing I remember happening prior to her death meeting wise w/LE was the female detective(Alstatt) being asked by mom to speak to Morgan to see if she could possibly get Morgan to open up to her about stress surrounding the stalking..that mom was being told by Morgan that she had her friends and activities which helped her be able to talk and work out any physical stress she was feeling and that she did not need to go speak with a therapist(as mom had made an appt for herself to do)..and mom had the female talk to Morgan to see what she thought of Morgans state of mind or how she was handling the situation..according to mom Alstatt told mom that Morgan was fine..she had her own avenues of working out and relieving stress and that the detective thought that Morgan was having no issue handling the situation and reassured mom that she felt nothing to worry about that Morgan was going to be just fine(this is per mom stated in radio interview)..this convo supposedly took place 2 weeks prior to Morgans death(tho now thinking on it maybe this is the incident you're speaking of and maybe Im mistaken and that it wasn't 2 weeks prior but rather actually took place only 2 days prior to her death)..thats something I'll have to go check..

And then as far as your question about what was the supposed cause/reason for the upcoming meeting between Morgan and detectives set for approx the week after Morgan's death.. According to mom the specific reason for this meeting was for the purpose of their further investigating the Ingrams prime suspect..they were going to also go over a timeline/schedule of this persons(ie. Work schedule, hunting, or out of town dates) for the specific purpose of could they in any way see a pattern or a correlation between the dates/times of when the "stalker incidents" had occurred and that of this individuals schedule/timeline of his availability or unavailability in even being able to be a possible suspect for involvement based on his whereabouts at the dates/times of the incidents..

And as we know that meeting of course never occurred and am uncertain if we've been told where the scheduled meeting was to have taken place at the Ingram home or elsewhere..

Just strictly from memory that is what I recall WRT questions you posed above..but definitely need to double check on the convo between Morgan and female detective(Alstatt)..whether that took place 2 weeks prior to her death or 2 days prior..

HTH:)
 
Haha, thanks Mayra, I didn't see your post. I agree.

If the mom had knowledge that M was depressed it is her right to not divulge that info on the blog. But I'm leaving that possibility open as to how that relates to M's state of mind. As of now, that is.
 
Per the mom, the Dr said she was perfectly healthy. Hmmm, given that M was 20 isn't it odd the Dr would tell the mom the outcome of the appointment...Dr/patient privilege, and all? M went in separately, correct? The mom stated this was a yearly appointment? Well, I know women who go to their gynecologists for anti-depressants. No telling what M told her gynecologist. She very well could have asked the Dr not to tell her mom.

She said she talked to her after she died. Before that, the mom stated that, due to HIPPA, she had no idea what they talked about or what Morgan said to her or what the doctor thought.
 
I just underwent a medical procedure a couple weeks ago with a new Doctor. Therefore I had to fill out a bunch of new forms. With them they gave me another form that asked who can they release my results to or talk to about my medical condition. I put down three names. Wouldn't these people be able to access my records because I've written their names down on a form for that purpose?

Yes, absolutely. But we don't know if she listed anyone or not.

I overlooked the HIPAA posts upthread. (lag time due to phone, blah) Great points.
 
Lets see I know for certain part of the answer to what you're asking, but cannot recall for certain about LE being at the home 2 days prior to her death(I'll have to look back do you recall if you read it in the blog, comments, or radio interview..and yes it does make my head spin attempting to recall which media form the different statements came from..lol..the only thing I remember happening prior to her death meeting wise w/LE was the female detective(Alstatt) being asked by mom to speak to Morgan to see if she could possibly get Morgan to open up to her about stress surrounding the stalking..that mom was being told by Morgan that she had her friends and activities which helped her be able to talk and work out any physical stress she was feeling and that she did not need to go speak with a therapist(as mom had made an appt for herself to do)..and mom had the female talk to Morgan to see what she thought of Morgans state of mind or how she was handling the situation..according to mom Alstatt told mom that Morgan was fine..she had her own avenues of working out and relieving stress and that the detective thought that Morgan was having no issue handling the situation and reassured mom that she felt nothing to worry about that Morgan was going to be just fine(this is per mom stated in radio interview)..this convo supposedly took place 2 weeks prior to Morgans death(tho now thinking on it maybe this is the incident you're speaking of and maybe Im mistaken and that it wasn't 2 weeks prior but rather actually took place only 2 days prior to her death)..thats something I'll have to go check..

Right, that's what I remember too, and I'm confused at the time line there, too. I remember that mentioned, and I thought it was around the time of the gyn appt. Or maybe since she mentioned them at the same time I just assumed. Today, I believe, she mentioned that the police had been out to the house 2 days before she died (this could have been in comments from today or yesterday; I just read them today). So I'm assuming those visits - the initial one from the detective and the one 2 days before her death were to go over details, get a full report from the family, see the areas involved, etc.


And then as far as your question about what was the supposed cause/reason for the upcoming meeting between Morgan and detectives set for approx the week after Morgan's death.. According to mom the specific reason for this meeting was for the purpose of their further investigating the Ingrams prime suspect..they were going to also go over a timeline/schedule of this persons(ie. Work schedule, hunting, or out of town dates) for the specific purpose of could they in any way see a pattern or a correlation between the dates/times of when the "stalker incidents" had occurred and that of this individuals schedule/timeline of his availability or unavailability in even being able to be a possible suspect for involvement based on his whereabouts at the dates/times of the incidents..

This is the part that bothers me. First off, why would they discuss the accused whereabouts with the victim? I would think that part of the conversation would be kept confidential, since the accused isn't yet proven guilty. But, let's say that was the plan, why make an appointment for that? Why not cover that in the meeting 2 days before she died? I'm wondering if there wasn't something M wanted to share confidentially with the police, and therefore made an appointment to see the detective. That's why I was wondering about where it was to take place.

HTH:)

My answers in bold.
 
She said she talked to her after she died. Before that, the mom stated that, due to HIPPA, she had no idea what they talked about or what Morgan said to her or what the doctor thought.

That's right. So if she was put on M's medical record as medical POA or anything along those lines, HIPAA wouldn't have applied. If she wasn't, then it would have been a violation to say anything afterwards without a court order.
 
Per the mom, the Dr said she was perfectly healthy. Hmmm, given that M was 20 isn't it odd the Dr would tell the mom the outcome of the appointment...Dr/patient privilege, and all? M went in separately, correct? The mom stated this was a yearly appointment? Well, I know women who go to their gynecologists for anti-depressants. No telling what M told her gynecologist. She very well could have asked the Dr not to tell her mom.

These exact answers to and topic were brought up and discussed by mom in the WS radio interview with tricia..mom says that her appt was first and while back in the actual patient room with their ob/gyn that mom briefly spome to their doctor and just mentioned the situation at hand and merely asked the dr to speak with Morgan about it just to ensure that the doctor was aware of situation and if Morgan were to have or expressed a problem or issue handling any part of the stalking..

That was it..mo specifically stated she was well aware that the confidentiality would be betwwen Morgan and their ob/gyn and that mom did not at all inquire the dr about the iissue after Morgans appt with the gyno was over..

Fast forward to after Morgans death upon which Toni sees Morgans doctor(if im not mistaken at Morgans viewing..not positive about the locale tho)..mom said that it was at that time that the doctor brought up the subject of Morgan having just been seen by this dr a mere 36 hours before her death and the dr simply stated that there appeared to be zero issues with neither Morgan physically nor emotionally and therefor all the more reason the gyno was shocked at Morgans death...

So, mom absolutely brought up and discuszed the dr/patient confidentiality as well as further explained how/when it came about that the dr even had told mom what the drs personal thoughts were on her time with Morgan at that last dr appt..
 
I don't think it is a foreign concept that teens might sneak in their BF/GF under their parents noses...but I do think they wouldn't go so far as to let their folks call LE and then sit down with a detective and give an interview about being stalked when they know it is all a hoax...JMO

I agree with this. Morgan was 20 years old and a college student. I don't think she felt the need to sneak in boys. It seems like her parents only turned helicopter because of the stalker. I remember reading in the blog things about her parents feeling bad making her come home early and it being odd for them to be this involved in her comings and goings. If it was a hoax and things were getting carried away she could have just stopped having incidents. "Oh hey, I guess the stalker moved on, life can go back to normal now" KWIM?
 
Ok. I do remember this part now, SmoothOperator, and I don't have a problem with taking mom's and doc's word for it. But, the mom stated herself M needed cheering up. Mom was concerned for a reason. I don't know, except I do know, doctor's screw up serious diagnosis all.the.time. and often overlook the obvious.
 
ITA waterdogs..Morgans being just fine, nothing wrong, stalking not even causing great stress..these issues do not coincide with loss of appetite and weight, dark circles, sunken eyez, exhausted,etc, etc....not yet at the point of knowing why or what exactly all of those indicators specifically mean.jmo
 
One thing I found interesting and I am sure that you all will correct me if I am wrong.
I noticed that Doberson listed some family doctors that he consulted regarding Morgan-but the name of the OB/GYN ( as I recall it) was not there.I may have misheard the name on Tricia's show.

She may have had some good input considering she had seen her so recently- although perhaps she just submitted records or did not have anything to add of value. It is also possible that Doberson did not list all the physicians he spoke with. Still and all I am just noting it for now.
 
Per the mom, the Dr said she was perfectly healthy. Hmmm, given that M was 20 isn't it odd the Dr would tell the mom the outcome of the appointment...Dr/patient privilege, and all? M went in separately, correct? The mom stated this was a yearly appointment? Well, I know women who go to their gynecologists for anti-depressants. No telling what M told her gynecologist. She very well could have asked the Dr not to tell her mom.

I think she spoke to that doctor after her death...not positive though.

ETA: Should have read further before posting!
 
Instead, what bothers me is what they DID do - Morgan walking right out at night with her puppy, alone, for example, so the puppy can pee, even though they were terrified of the stalker, had cameras, motion detectors, all over the place, would meet Morgan in the driveway rather than allowing her to walk into the house alone, yet suddenly, somehow, it;s okay for her to go out into the night alone, and Morgan walking home by herself from some location, in the evening, IIRC, or stating she was going to. Those things completely contradict the impression we are now receiving of a family under siege. I can understand not knowing what specific measures one should take to stop a stalker. I can't understand being horrifically terrified one moment and not the next.

I've wondered about that, too. The possible explanation I have is that perhaps these inconsistencies are the evidence of psychologically self-preserving denial? Meaning, if they can convince themselves by acting as though everything is normal that indeed everything IS normal and there is nothing to be afraid of, then somehow this would decrease the ACTUAL threat this unknown stalker poses. I'd be curious to hear from those on the board who have suffered a stalker. How do you deal with what I would presume to be constant terror, that even as you go about your daily lives lurks in the background of every moment, even moments that presumably should be joyous and care-free? Do you "protect" yourself from this terror and its psychological and physical effects by convincing yourself somehow that the stalker is not that big of a threat, regardless of what "reality" presents as true?

No. You are totally right. He was not saying his wife was behind him all the time. I misunderstood!

However, if a person was setting off the motion lights behind him, that figure would have been on camera, IMO. I think it's wholly illogical to think a person could set off the motion detector lights in a pattern, while chasing Mr. Ingram who appeared on camera, yet not appear himself.

It just sounds to me like he was chasing himself and setting of the lights himself and that there was some sort of delay or something.

I wondered the same but then I thought of this possibility: could the stalker have been following behind Steve around the perimeter of the house by sticking close by the house itself while Steve ran through the yard? I can't imagine that those cams could cover both the area right up against the house AND the yard surrounding the house. If there were blind spots in the network of cameras, wouldn't they have to be directly up against the house? This is one way the motion detector lights could go off, but nothing would be visible on camera.
 
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