CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[mysterygirl]

Purple is my favorite color.

Cazzie what do you mean by that last post?

 

[Meri]

This won't be popular, but I feel like things are going downhill, in a spiritual way. JMO.

Don't know what that means in regards to TOS, but....JMO.

Will you clarify a little bit what you mean? I would appreciate it!

 

[LadyL]

With all respect..

These homes had yards...backyards...no way (IMO) these were horse trails...

Even tho there was a horse center/facility on the other side of that fence (plus there was a ditch) that bordered the house, with the berm, where Morgan's family lived.

There weren't horses wandering loose, making those trails on the berm behind the I's rented home. Preposterous, IMO.

JMO.

we had a 'normal' back yard too ... and fields beyond ... etc. etc.

the 'wandering' horses that escaped - that was just a (funny IMO) anecdote, which is why I bracketed it

the horses normally had riders!

have you ever lived near horse stables?

 

[mysterygirl]

Just read a comment on the blog saying the stuff about gang stalking and what she meant is coming out soon.

 

[Snowball58]

Thanks for the honesty. But did you take crazy combinations such as this one? Back in my day we had ludes combined with drinking - dangerous. Oh angel dust could be dangerous too. Coke combined with drinking. Pot and hallucinogens but is it a new trend to take this type of a combination? If you were attempting to kill yourself, how would you know to take a stomach settler type drug? Seems pretty out there to me but what do I know?

Not to sound like a broken record, but couldn't the other drugs have been taken by Morgan to counteract the side effects of regular Ami use (pain, nausea, rashes/hives, sore throat, etc.?) Then the final side effect was suicidal thoughts, and so she ultimately killed herself with an Ami overdose? And the other drugs were in her system from routine peripheral use?

I just mean that there could be logical reasons for some of the other drugs they found in her system, even if the above isn't the case. But there are many reasons she could have had muscle relaxer, expectorant and anti-nausea meds in her body (especially if these were not found in extremely high amounts as compared to the Ami.)

 

[hambirg]

I actually don't expect any evidence to be revealed, at least not to us. In fact, it's wise to hold some back so that if they can find a corroborating witness or something, the defense can't claim the witness was tainted by evidence they reviewed.

Instead, they need to hire an attorney and have that attorney help them present said evidence to the DA, and along up the chain and if none of that works, they need to release the smoking gun publicly, to create the firestorm that the state of Colorado cannot brush under the rug.

Again, I have no problem discussing this case from a one source point of view and I have no problem with the blog format or with certain evidence being withheld from us sleuthers.

What I have a problem with is people repeating as fact, uncorroborated statements or unauthenticated evidence and arguing what we "know" to be true based on that. That's why I try to say, "IIRC" or "assuming". Hambirg, I think, is pretty darn good at discussing the "facts" but not repeating that which is unconfirmed as irrefutable evidence. I'd like to see more of that.

But when I see things stated as "what we know" when we don't, I'm going to respectfully challenge that. Otherwise we have a useless thread. hey, I had some incorrect assumptions that people have cleared up and that makes it easier for me to wade through fact, fiction, possibility and probability. It's opened my eyes.

In the meantime, I want answers for this family as well. But so far, it appears they have not done certain things necessary to getting this case reexamined. They haven't even tried to get police reports because "Oh, I don't think LE are happy with us right now." What? And mystery states they have retained counsel but based on the statement on their FB just days ago that they were merely looking into that possibility, I'm thinking that could be a mistake?

The only other thing I have heard is that mom had an attorney at one point or contacted one who stopped calling her back, which either indicates they don't have a case or that the attorney wanted money that they could not afford to pay.

So, we'll see. I have done what i can repeating on this thread what she can do and what she needs to do (using my attorney hat). Surely a case that has media attention, loyal blog followers, an active thread on FB, allegations or implications of stalking, defamation, corruption, murder, inept public, union member servants, grief and one of the loveliest girls ever to grace the pages of an obituary, there is some attorney out there who is willing to take this case on pro bono for this family, even if just for the publicity.

I'm waiting, with much hope.

I am several pages behind, but first, thank you. I always respect your posts and I'm more than flattered by what you said. :blush:

I, more than anything, seek truth and logic. My posts are combination of that. We can't always know the truth, but we have to apply logic to what we do have.

I have said repeatedly that I do think Morgan was stalked/harassed/bullied but I can't, with clear conscience, tie that with her death, even assuming she was murdered. There has to be something tying her stalker to her death. The possible video might be just that, but we haven't seen it yet. As far as people questioning the acute intoxication, the topic has been beat to death. There is a myriad of scholarly studies. Google is your friend. . .do the research. I'm done with that topic.

In all honesty, I found a scholarly study today who's results were a warning to pathologists to not assume that acute amitriptyline intoxication is a sign of suicide, because some people do abuse it for it's euphoric effects. Yes, some people take it to get high and accidentally OD. I just couldn't rule that out, and be honest with myself, after sleuthing her friends and their recreational drug use. I couldn't rule out that Morgan went to the ex's to get drugs to get high. . .went home and took them and accidentally OD'd.

BUT after reading the toxicology report. . .no alcohol. . .no cannabis?! She wasn't getting high on ami.

That leaves very few other options. I do think her case deserves another look. I will not bash her parents for not doing what we all think they shoulda, woulda, coulda. Not everyone knows what we here at WS do. Let's just say I have someone VERY close to me involved in LE. The prosecutors aren't going to touch this unless it is a complete case, and their offices are some of the most political. We know this case is not complete, it's not. There are still things that need to be investigated.

I'm really not worried in the least about TI's supposed allegations. She hasn't really accused anyone. She is just telling her story. They have legal channels available to them. In fact, their silence speaks volumes. . .truth is always an absolute defense to defamation. If it was me and my daughter was dead, I'd take that risk. Burden of proof is on the plaintiff. Bring it. Prove to me that what I'm saying isn't true.

MOOOOOOO!

 

[OtherEyes]

I would think there would be some bruising in the nail bed. I agree, something like that should have been visible.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2

Hard to tell I would imagine under purple toenail polish....hmmmm

 

[mysterygirl]

I'm not convinced and the release of these reports don't change much for me.

I'm still unsure.

And I will stick with it until the end.

I want the whole story until the day she died and I'm not impressed with the first medical examiner.

 

[AbbeyR]

You guys are going so fast, I can't keep up! What do purple toe nails indicate? Doesn't polish come in all weird colors these days? Man, I'm old.

Oh, I don't think it means anything (my toenails are blue right now!) It just stood out to me because it humanized the autopsy report and reminded me of the girl behind the 'case', and made me sad for a life that ended too soon.

 

[mysterygirl]

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1137

Just a reminder of the other opinion.

 

[hambirg]

I think the reason M's friends haven't chimed in publicly is out of respect for the Ingrams. Obviously, the parents are Morgan's voice, so friends do not want to muddle their story/theory. IMHO.

OR. . .they are terrified. I would be if I thought my friend was stalked and murdered and that her killer was still on the loose. . .worse that it might be somebody in our circle of friends! :what:

ETA- I had a friend that was found dead while she was in the throws of a divorce. One of our mutual friends was a near witness. There is NO doubt in my mind who her killer was. The police ruled she was shot in the head during a botched robbery attempt. None of the witness accounts support that. It still bothers me over 15yrs later. That got custody of their kids. BUT you won't hear me speaking of it publicly. That dangerous psycho still walks among us. . . . .love you Janice. . .someday justice.

 

[Confusion]

Nevermind...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

TOD unknown, but she was pronounced at 8:15, so there was a couple of hours between her being found and first responders getting there.

Wonder why? They found her at 5? Wouldnt you just call 911 right away?

Sorry to be a stickler but do we know what time the first responders arrived? They may have worked on her for up to 45 minutes or so.
TI said she discovered Morgan at around 5:30 a.m.
Considering both these points, I still can't imagine why the call to 911 wasn't made at 5:31 a.m. :waitasec:

I'm also wondering why no TOD is stated. The autopsy reveals the stiffness was not total. Rigor begins at around 3 hrs. and peaks at 12 hrs.
Why couldn't a doctor provide an approx. tod based on the above knowledge?

Also I noticed that Morgan had a recent something cyst on her ovary. I think this is when a cyst bursts and it's very painful. My gf's daughter has this and she is very sick and in alot of pain when it happens. If it's the same thing, one would need to medicate. This caused me to wonder if M could have taken the drugs in response to having that going on in her body and overdosed as a result. I noticed the wording indicated recent, as in fresh evidence I guess, and then the medical language for it (I'm too lazy to look now). It sounded like an ovary cyst tho. Why wouldn't the examiner consider this? Unless I misunderstood what it is M had.

Oh one more thing. I've seen posted several times that M would have died within 30 mins. of ingesting the level of drug found in her body. The autopsy reads 'minutes to hours'. Therefore, if someone here can calculate an exact time, why can't the coroner? Obviously minutes to hours is a broad timeframe.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Oh, I don't think it means anything (my toenails are blue right now!) It just stood out to me because it humanized the autopsy report and reminded me of the girl behind the 'case', and made me sad for a life that ended too soon.

I know, I had the same reaction when I read the autopsy because the info just showed up and seemed out of place.

And it's making me feel even sader to not be able to reconcile the cod.
For me to believe she intentionally killed herself, I need to know more about if she thought she had personal struggles. Why would she make a date to meet her newest love interest for breakfast if she was planning to take her own life? Makes no sense.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It was stated that the EMT checked out the pills in her prescription bottle/s and they were all accounted for. Of course, that doesn't mean that she had been taking them as prescribed before she quit taking them completely; I recently went through my "med drawer" and got rid of the partial bottles I had left from previous years. I had a hard time in the past being "medically compliant" and actually threw away over 30 bottles, some full, some partially full; I'm sure it was at least 500 pills that were in there, not counting my current prescriptions that I kept - and do take as prescribed now! Not everybody is like me, luckily, but she could have actually just added old prescriptions to the new bottles when she got them; I'm not sure there's any way to know for sure if ALL pills were really accounted for. MOO

If authorities had bothered to look though then they'd know the date on the bottle and could verify that they had been sitting there unused, or mostly so, for over a year and a half as TI claims. 18 pills isn't as many as was originally thought but still, if they'd been sitting there all this time and then, all of a sudden, she decides to take them. It would shed light on the situation to determine how many were left, etc.

Also it would give credence to what TI claims which is that M hadn't been filling that prescription for the last year and a half. The autopsy does assume a build up of the drug (is this stated right?) over an eight or nine year period. I'm confused now because it also says the dose would be worse for someone who isn't used to taking it. Either way, it was too much.

Wait, it was stated that the EMT's accounted for all the pills in the bottles? They were full, none taken? I don't know why that would be, seems kind of weird to fill the scripts and not even take a few, since you had been, before you quit taking them. Why pickup refills in the first place then?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Promethazine (Phenergan)
Guafinesin (expectorant)
Cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril)
Amitriptyline (Elavil)
Flurazepam (Dalmane)
Conitine (Nicotine)

One point of agreement for both Kurtzman as well as Doberson is the amount of time from the point the drugs entered Morgans system to the point of death..
Kurtzman says minutes to an hour
Doberson says within 30 minutes

I am more unsettled than ever at this point unlike I know some others are feeling a level of resolve or somewhat closure in their opinions as far believing stronger and more certain than ever that this was in fact a suicide.. I unfortunately am not at all feeling that way and in fact feel more unsettled than ever at this point in it just does not add up for me at all..

Someone mentioned upthread the clothing is easily explained and was due to Morgans having been drinking and drugging and left her just passing out in her clothes..except for the fact Morgan was not drinking nary a drop of alcohol and imo the drugs that her system were overloaded with are just frankly not at all any of the typical prescription drugs of choice that young adults regularly use and abuse to get high, numb, or euphoric..while i understand some of thes drugs have been abused before and no one need argue that point because i do know that but nonetheless the drugs her body was overloaded with are not by any stretch of the imagination the "usual" go to pills when seeking to get high..

So, I am very much in disagreement with this being a case of an intoxicated, high girl who just died from "partying" on booze/pills.or in that state chose to kill herself..again alcohol is known for a fact to not even play a role at all at any time near or leading up to her death..

And if what we are being told is true then every instinct and intuition within my entire existence is screaming this is not suicide..again if everything we've been told is true such as:
-Morgan fine emotionally/physically at dr 36hrs prior
-Morgan upbeat and fine the entire day of Thurs 12/1 ate big breakfast helped dad and ex bf for better part of the earlier part of the day..around 2pm meeting up with D and at around 8:30pm after having left D she stops by a house where friends were and is happy/upbeat especially about D having told her how much her really liked her.
-and after 9pm at home in bedroom fine and texting with D...dad visits in her room says she was smiling and happy tho, feared it was possible she was coming down with a cough and worried about going and getting kids sick she was bbsitting for, but didnt wana cancel last minute on the mom who would be expecting her to keep the kids..ends the night telling dad how much she loves him.
-has breakfast plans to meet early next morning with D prior to her going to bbsit..

Imo if those above details are in fact true and do accurately describe her demeanor and seeming state of mind .. I find it highly unlikely this was a suicide.. If we were to learn that the above is not really an accurate account/description of Morgans last days/hours then I could quite honestly feel drastically different about suicide..but for now with what we know and how weve been told of those last days/hours I just for the life of me cannot correlate that with suicide..

Imo it would be rather simple to have confirmation of the majority of those issues if we even had one person speaking out about Morgan in those last days and was she really fine, actually happy about certain aspects(budding relationship), and more so in a content, stable state of mind.. I certainly wish we would have a friend or even close aquaintance that would grace us with their presence here at WS and offer another point of view about Morgan..that could really go a long way in helping many of us to have a better or more complete, fleshed out, all around multi faceted descriptin of just who Morgan was.

 

[SmoothOperator]

On the TOd being 8:15am and mom stating she was found at 5:30am some believe yhis may indicate a questional time lapse between discovering her body and parnts calling 911.. I dont see it that way but rather that by the time the call is placed, paramedics arrive, assess and attempt and resusitation, then stop, prep to transport and do not call TOD until it is okayed/verified by coroner or the like..imo due to this it would likely be a couple hour lapse from the time she was found til she is officially given a Tod...

 

[txsvicki]

I haven't read the entire thread but has the hemorragic corpus luteum been discussed? It could have been a painful ovarian cyst. Just wondering if Morgan could have thought it was a return of her old symptoms and possible porphyria despite her efforts at health and juicing. It also seems weird that she would have been on an antidepressant all thru most of her teen years for a possible illness not even confirmed. That may have set her up to turn to this same med any time illness or pain came up. What if she had cystic ovaries all along!

 

[ScotsPaddy]

When I had a big dog he wore a trail all around the back of the house.

Having seen a deer in the game cam pic id be more inclined to say it was deer etc that made the trail behind the house...

 

[21merc7]

Thank you raine for the documents.

Being fully clothed was most likely M's choice. Some don't want to be found in their "jammies".

Telling dad to let the family she babysat for that she was ill, was saying I'm not going to be there and they need to know to find someone else. Lots of suicidal people take care of their responsibilities right before that moment. This was her responsibility and she was trying to get it taken care of.

If there indeed is anyone on the video, could she have texted a friend she couldn't take it anymore, and they were coming to check on her?

It seems Morgan had a lot going on that would cause her worry, so there is no one reason. There are many. They all just got stuck swirling and no way out in her mind.

All moo.

I'm so sorry for Morgan, and for her family.