CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[JaimeSommers]

Regarding the jewelry ... IIRC, Morgan's mom said she has access to 40,000 or 50,000 photos (please correct me if that's wrong). Do we know if they're of Morgan -- or are they surveillance photos?

If they're photos of Morgan, wouldn't it stand to reason that she would be wearing the (allegedly) stolen jewelry in some of them? Using photo-editing software, mom could zero in on the jewelry for LE.

Apologies if this has been discussed before.

 

[koalabear]

First, that money would be better spent on their P.I. fund, preferably a lawyer.

Second, we all know it is a scam. It is just giving her someone to talk to, which she needs obviously, but they are hired yes men. They agree with you, embellish on what YOU are suggesting, and try to continue in that manner to keep you on the line and calling again. It's just about making $$$ for them. I think she would be better off talking with a friend or therapist.

Have to respectfully disagree with you there. First off I'm sure TI mentioned just the other day that the psychic was a friend and did not charge her, and even if she did we are probably talking a modest amount compared to a P.I. fee, and secondly, whilst yes there are a heap of scam psychics out there there are some truly gifted ones. I consider myself to be a spiritualist and boy I have seen some things in my time that have me utterly convinced there is something to this.

Like in any walk of life there are con artists aplenty but there are some truly gifted in tune people out there.

 

[concernedmother]

So there was nothing unusual about what she was found in. It's the same clothes her mom saw her in after she came home and changed.

Mayra I thought she just answered that she had on skinny green jeans etc and not the clothes she had on earlier. So Im not sure we know at what point M changed those clothes. I took the comment as those clothes she was found in were not the ones she had on when she came home. She could have changed into street clothes later to sneak out. Some of what they see on camera may be M sneaking in and out after her parents went to bed. I thought about the vacant house and the chair being moved. Maybe she was hanging out there with someone where she could keep an eye on her house for her parents to get up. If it wasnt the norm for M to sleep in street clothes I think there is an important clue there.

 

[Marshmallow]

after some overnight thought and reading this morning, I've come to a new opinion. I'm changing my mind on it being suicide but am not removing suicide from the equation completely. I think it was more accidental. I think Morgan unwittingly caused her own death by taking the wrong mixture of pills and in too short of a time. I still feel that there may have been some harassment early on from someone in her set of aquaintences but am not totally sold on it. I do not think she had a stalker. I think an instance grew to paranoia and spread through the family. I hear talk of a video of the night she passed but apparently we have to wait for that. I am very upset that people's namesare being spread as murders and stalkers. That seems wrong to me. I think the parents are grieving still and I would be too but in their need to make sense of this they seem to have a need to have a bad guy to blame and I really do not think there is one. I worry about the inconsistancies, the changing of the story, and the use of emotion to spread a story that may not be true just to name names and label others as murderer(s).
I worry about what will happen for them when there are no arrests, no bad guys, no one to blame. Bad things do happen and often it is just a case of bad luck. If Morgan did take her own life willfully my heart breaks for them, if it was accidental my heart breaks for them, and I guess no matter what, my heart breaks for them.

 

[concernedmother]

I think we have 2 groups. Group A. Bullys. Stalking at least on some occasions motivated by jealously. Group B. People that were providing M with various meds upon request motivated by a desire to help their friend through these difficult times with no intent to kill her.

 

[rollinginit]

Friends are not coming forward as they are being accused of murder and accomplice to that. They cannot say a word to the public. I also think friends probably knew all along that this was suicide, they knew M and what was going on in her life. I am not saying she told them ahead of time, just saying they probably figured it out the minute they found out she was gone.

Both ME's are reputable, and their work reflects keeping that reputation. I get concerned with people throwing them under the bus, they have a license to protect. Their comments on M's death are easy enough to interpret.

Mom getting her info from a psychic disturbs me.

First, that money would be better spent on their P.I. fund, preferably a lawyer.
.

RSBM

I just wanted to jump off some of yours post on here. Hope that's okay?

The friends? I don't know how well everybody on here can search facebook, (and I do not consider myself an expert) but both the parents are friends with a lot of M's friends on facebook. It's easy to search in their friends list. I usually click on the boys (b/c they usually don't do private) then I click their timeline to all posts made in Dec 2011.

Heartbreaking to read. Hard to believe any of her friends knew about Morgan and thought suicide. These kids were shocked that she was dead. And the many that posted under the post were in shock. Lots of kids talked about what a wonderful person she was, having classes with her, etc.... Now.....if you fast forward the timeline to June/july and every month since......most of the pages I seen....they reposted or "shared" Morgan's stalking blog. A couple of her best friends post the Morgan's stalking facebook page quite often. Those are usually public post

Another thing....after her death, Morgan's parent had a HUGE celebration ceremony honoring her life. I know many showed up for it b/c they posted on that day that's what they were doing.

Both ME's have a history together. They have worked cases together, and they have both stood on opposite sides about "COD" on other cases.

Psychic...I do believe she is the Ingram's friend and is doing it for free.

 

[Sonya610]

Mom getting her info from a psychic disturbs me.

I am not bothered by the psychic thing, though the roof theory seems unbelievable to me. First off wouldn't they HEAR someone trampling around on the roof? Secondly they claim there was "one narrow path" that the cameras didn't cover and that path could be used for access to the roof, how would the stalker know that if he hadn't seen the camera views himself?

Personally if I had strange taps on the windows for months and could not find the living culprit with cameras etc...I would contact wildlife experts to rule out natural occurrences such as bugs or bats or something. If that failed I would probably start to suspect supernatural entities. If I really believed it was a specific neighbor then I would trail cams around HIS house to see when he comes and goes or put a GPS tracker on his car, if you think you know who it is then it wouldn't be hard to ascertain their whereabouts.

Second, we all know it is a scam. It is just giving her someone to talk to, which she needs obviously, but they are hired yes men. They agree with you, embellish on what YOU are suggesting, and try to continue in that manner to keep you on the line and calling again. It's just about making $$$ for them. I think she would be better off talking with a friend or therapist.

So far I have not seen one SHRED of evidence that suggests the neighbor is responsible for stalking much less murder. If someone was actually publically accusing me of murdering a neighbor without any evidence I would consult a lawyer and look into suing the pants off of them, grief or no grief that is unacceptable. I am thinking maybe no lawyer wants the case as the family may not have enough assets to justify a lawsuit.

 

[21merc7]

Have to respectfully disagree with you there. First off I'm sure TI mentioned just the other day that the psychic was a friend and did not charge her, and even if she did we are probably talking a modest amount compared to a P.I. fee, and secondly, whilst yes there are a heap of scam psychics out there there are some truly gifted ones. I consider myself to be a spiritualist and boy I have seen some things in my time that have me utterly convinced there is something to this.

Like in any walk of life there are con artists aplenty but there are some truly gifted in tune people out there.

Didn't mean to offend anyone koalabear. I used to believe, that's how I figured out what I stated. That was just my experience. It's okay with me if others still do.

It seems to me the family needs an objective professional to speak with. It seems they are running on emotion, and maybe not seeing things clearly. Understandably so. JMO

 

[txsvicki]

I believe the Ingram's do have some proof because she has said they did not have proof in september "yet". The pic of the person in the vest with the long thing under his arm is enough for me. The continued tapping, seeing someone, hearing codes being entered shows a compulsive psycho. I just think it may only be one guy and they might be wrong about gang stalking or who it is. Things aren't clear to me about when the poi found out he was being accused and whether or not some revenge tactics may have happened afterwards. I think plenty happened to make Morgan's death suspicious and worthy of at least trying to find out where she got the drugs and how.

 

[Daria]

Hi, Everyone!
I have been lurking on this thread from the onset and have finally decided to post - this case stays on my mind, partly because the mystery intrigues me and partly because I believe that M was a beautiful soul who I really identify with. I am also a creative/artsy type (I'm a professional photographer), I practice yoga and am into holistic health & organic foods, have a bohemian style, and have been described as an 'old soul'. My heart completely breaks for this family.

That being said, like many of you, I have questions/issues about several things that have been bothering me:

1. TI says on Tricia's radio show (around the 40 min mark) that she believes the stalker is a serial stalker and serial murderer. But she also strongly believes that she knows who it is and that they were out to get Morgan specifically. This is a little "off" to me - most serial stalkers/murderers choose their victims at random...they don't have a specific issue with the people they kill/stalk, they just enjoy doing it. It's hard for me to buy that it is BOTH a serial stalker/murderer AND that they specifically targeted M. Not saying it's not possible, just odd.

2. TI also says on the radio show (42 min) that after M was followed, LE made up posters that had the stalker's car make and model, HIS NAME, M's car, where they live, etc. When asked (later) to see these posters, TI said she has not even seen them. This seems really odd to me. I can't remember where I saw/heard that she hasn't seen them, but I will try to find it if someone wants a link.

3. TI says on the radio show (17:40) that she was in the front room of the house (her office) with lights on, curtains open, and the window open. This was after M started sleeping in the closet, so obviously the family was fearful at this point. I just can't reconcile this in my mind. (I feel the same way about the windows being open in their bedroom - the explanation for the stalker knowing M was sleeping in the closet).

4. Tricia asked TI to let the websleuths look at some of this evidence she says she has and told her how amazing you all are with sleuthing and that there was a real possibility it could help solve this mystery...as far as I know she hasn't taken advantage of that opportunity. (Maybe she has done it outside of the forum, so I can't say that I know she hasn't, but it seems doubtful that no one here would have heard of any new evidence produced.)

I hope I haven't violated any TOS - I think I understand the rules, but this is my first post, so forgive me if I've said anything inappropriate. Nice to 'meet' you all!

Daria

 

[21merc7]

:wagon: Daria! Great first post. I agree there a lot things that fall under "you can't have it both ways". It would be okay if she were just sharing these grieving thoughts of blame with a friend, but she is not. That is the biggest problem.

Hence the need for a legal and objective professional to help them look over the evidence and documents - to sort out what really is or is not there.

 

[concernedmother]

For her to conclude this is a serial stalker murderer there needs to be other cases of stalking and death under suspicious circumstances in the area. So does anyone know if there are more? How many women have died like this?

 

[Snowball58]

Its in the August 8 blog entry where toni says that after the window being banged in moms office batgroom and morgan runs out in a towel..it is that night she began sleeping in closet and Toni says from fear and anxiety that Morgans face and chest are broken out in a rash

If the fear and anxiety caused the rash, wouldn't she have experienced more rashes over the next four months? Certainly the anxiety only increased and built as time passed?

I break out in hives when I'm stressed. And when I'm too hot. And when I eat corn. So folks are right that, by itself, it may be meaningless. But in combination with other possible Ami side effects she may have been experiencing, and that she had previously been prescribed this drug, and that she may have possibly committed suicide with this drug...it very well could mean more.

Often times, single occurrences may mean nothing. But take several of these single things and combine them together and you might see a pattern.

Maybe she started up on the Ami again but the dose was too high and she experienced some of the serious side effects (hallucinations/delusions, rash, etc.) so she took a lower dose and the side effects became more manageable (dry mouth, "quiet periods" when the stalking seemed to settle down, when there was no more knocking but only motion lights which could have been wildlife.)

And then, after using the Ami again for a few months, the suicidal thoughts kicked in and she committed suicide with Ami overdose.

Maybe this isn't what happened, but the rash is just one more occurrence that supports this theory as being just as possible as any other that we've speculated about.

 

[nursebeeme]

welcome Daria! :cheer:

 

[Sonya610]

I believe the Ingram's do have some proof because she has said they did not have proof in september "yet".

I think plenty happened to make Morgan's death suspicious and worthy of at least trying to find out where she got the drugs and how.

Yeah well seeing as how TI has pretty much publically accused her neighbors of murder, and possibly "serial murder" she had best have some real proof.

As far as where Morgan got the drugs, well she had a script and probably a stash of the lethal drug. She was apparently visiting a lot of people's homes, it is not at all uncommon for folks seeking drugs to open up other people's medicine cabinets and help themselves. I have even heard of some prescription drug addicts visiting open houses pretending to be buyers just to access the medicine cabinets (I am not suggesting Morgan was addicted to prescription drugs, just pointing out how easy it would be for someone to pick up a few pills when they have access to a variety of homes).

 

[Snowball58]

Regarding the jewelry ... IIRC, Morgan's mom said she has access to 40,000 or 50,000 photos (please correct me if that's wrong). Do we know if they're of Morgan -- or are they surveillance photos?

If they're photos of Morgan, wouldn't it stand to reason that she would be wearing the (allegedly) stolen jewelry in some of them? Using photo-editing software, mom could zero in on the jewelry for LE.

Apologies if this has been discussed before.

Exactly, and we don't know how many items Morgan even had that went missing. Was it 3 pieces of gold jewelry, or 30?

If she could at least find pics of one or two of them, they could see if there's a match to the stolen goods. If even one piece is a match, they have their answer. This seems very important, if mom wants to find some proof that this person is responsible, why not make it priority #1 instead of letting it fall to the sidelines? It would tie this person to the scene and that would be huge in furthering her cause!

 

[Snowball58]

Have to respectfully disagree with you there. First off I'm sure TI mentioned just the other day that the psychic was a friend and did not charge her, and even if she did we are probably talking a modest amount compared to a P.I. fee, and secondly, whilst yes there are a heap of scam psychics out there there are some truly gifted ones. I consider myself to be a spiritualist and boy I have seen some things in my time that have me utterly convinced there is something to this.

Like in any walk of life there are con artists aplenty but there are some truly gifted in tune people out there.

Toni should utilize ALL possible resources, but not pin everything on just one source. PI, psychic, forensic astrologist (I made this suggestion to her on the blog and hope she looks into it, forensic astros are amazing!), LE, etc.

 

[21merc7]

Another thing I noticed. In the blog comments mom says after 48 hours LE told them they could take down the crime scene tape and go into M's room.

I thought LE didn't investigate at all? It would seem they did do something if they blocked it off as a crime scene?

 

[Snowball58]

I am not bothered by the psychic thing, though the roof theory seems unbelievable to me. First off wouldn't they HEAR someone trampling around on the roof? Secondly they claim there was "one narrow path" that the cameras didn't cover and that path could be used for access to the roof, how would the stalker know that if he hadn't seen the camera views himself?

Personally if I had strange taps on the windows for months and could not find the living culprit with cameras etc...I would contact wildlife experts to rule out natural occurrences such as bugs or bats or something. If that failed I would probably start to suspect supernatural entities. If I really believed it was a specific neighbor then I would trail cams around HIS house to see when he comes and goes or put a GPS tracker on his car, if you think you know who it is then it wouldn't be hard to ascertain their whereabouts.



So far I have not seen one SHRED of evidence that suggests the neighbor is responsible for stalking much less murder. If someone was actually publically accusing me of murdering a neighbor without any evidence I would consult a lawyer and look into suing the pants off of them, grief or no grief that is unacceptable. I am thinking maybe no lawyer wants the case as the family may not have enough assets to justify a lawsuit.

A simple thank you wasn't enough for this post. It summarizes many of my thoughts better than I could have articulated!

 

[Snowball58]

I believe the Ingram's do have some proof because she has said they did not have proof in september "yet". The pic of the person in the vest with the long thing under his arm is enough for me. The continued tapping, seeing someone, hearing codes being entered shows a compulsive psycho. I just think it may only be one guy and they might be wrong about gang stalking or who it is. Things aren't clear to me about when the poi found out he was being accused and whether or not some revenge tactics may have happened afterwards. I think plenty happened to make Morgan's death suspicious and worthy of at least trying to find out where she got the drugs and how.

Seriously, how are people seeing vests and long things under the arm and so forth? I just see a white blob that resembles a villainous snowman...a person, for sure, but that's about all I can say from that single image.

I'd also like to point out that 99% of all of the noises experienced were experienced by Morgan alone, and not the Ingrams. They saw the motion lights going on and off, which could have been wildlife. Toni saw someone on the porch - could have been any number of coincidental explanations for that. And they have one image (that we've seen, I'll revise my theory once I see any more) which could have been the other neighbor snooping around wondering what all the police activity was (it was the next day that he marched over demanding to know what was going on.)

When all of the stalking was just experienced by one person, and not corroborated by anyone else living in the home, isn't it possible that Morgan hallucinated it?