CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #1

[foxbluff]

Sorry to reply to my own post but I had a thought and didn't want to risk waiting a few minutes and losing it, haha!
I was reading the post that DN when facing extradition may get nervous and start talking. It made me think of the dynamics when he is sent back to IN but KN and his babies remain in CO awaiting the parental rights hearing in Mar. That is going to put a lot of stress on him!

I can't figure out what happens with the parental rights hearing in Colorado if IN does come to get DN. Wouldn't Colorado then have to postpone their Hearing? But for how long?

I have long ago lost all patience w/both Mr. and Mrs. N, but feel really sad and worried about their innocent little children.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

I can't figure out what happens with the parental rights hearing in Colorado if IN does come to get DN. Wouldn't Colorado then have to postpone their Hearing? But for how long?

I have long ago lost all patience w/both Mr. and Mrs. N, but feel really sad and worried about their innocent little children.

Exactly how I feel, too. Very sad situation for those innocent children. I think the county will wait until the March - IIRC - hearing for their children before extradition.

 

[Daey34]

I don’t think they’ll wait. Indiana indicated they’d come within the trimeframe (21 days). He will probably lose his kids, as he has no job, car, home, plus ongoing cases in Indiana etc. He can’t even live in a shelter due to being an RSO.

My opinion is the custody hearing was postponed to make it easier to remove the kids from his care.

Exactly how I feel, too. Very sad situation for those innocent children. I think the county will wait until the March - IIRC - hearing for their children before extradition.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I can't figure out what happens with the parental rights hearing in Colorado if IN does come to get DN. Wouldn't Colorado then have to postpone their Hearing? But for how long?

I have long ago lost all patience w/both Mr. and Mrs. N, but feel really sad and worried about their innocent little children.

If he is in jail he won't have any parental rights will he?

 

[Daey34]

Nope. Nor should he. They terminate parental rights for much less, and the charges from Colorado are enough reason. I think that hearing will be the end of his rights, and he won’t be there.

Those kids would be better off living in a foster home than in a car with a broken window, witnessing their father fly off the handle and chase random people with hatchets. I’m confident the state sees it that way. If it didn’t, and he were given his kids back, and then something happened where his anger were taken out on them (he was one step away in 2015 when he beat KN in front of their daughter), that would look very bad for DCS.

If he is in jail he won't have any parental rights will he?

 

[ocgrad]

Nope. Nor should he. They terminate parental rights for much less, and the charges from Colorado are enough reason. I think that hearing will be the end of his rights, and he won’t be there.

Those kids would be better off living in a foster home than in a car with a broken window, witnessing their father fly off the handle and chase random people with hatchets. I’m confident the state sees it that way. If it didn’t, and he were given his kids back, and then something happened where his anger were taken out on them (he was one step away in 2015 when he beat KN in front of their daughter), that would look very bad for DCS.

I wish we knew what was happening with KN. if she is still living in a shelter they won't give them back to her. But I think if she has taken some steps forward, classes or has a job, filed for divorce, making better decisions. If she is making some progress they will stay in foster care i think instead of terminating her rights.

 

[foxbluff]

I wish we knew what was happening with KN. if she is still living in a shelter they won't give them back to her. But I think if she has taken some steps forward, classes or has a job, filed for divorce, making better decisions. If she is making some progress they will stay in foster care i think instead of terminating her rights.

BBM - that makes lots of sense to me.

Also, I agree that filing for divorce would help her retain parental rights. Unfortunately, if DN ever gets out of jail, my bet is that they'll simply shack-up together. Grr...

 

[foxbluff]

I don’t think they’ll wait. Indiana indicated they’d come within the trimeframe (21 days). He will probably lose his kids, as he has no job, car, home, plus ongoing cases in Indiana etc. He can’t even live in a shelter due to being an RSO.

My opinion is the custody hearing was postponed to make it easier to remove the kids from his care.

BBM - You make a good case there!

However, imho, El Paso County made a good criminal case against him, too, but a judge gave him probation instead of jail time!

The only way I could have been more stunned by that decision is if, along with his walking papers, they returned the gun to him !!

 

[foxbluff]

I'm still wanting to know why there is no reward being offered for info leading to the arrest and/or conviction of TW's murderer.

 

[carlychowder]

Agreed. I feel so bad for TW's family. I hope they have more answers than the public does.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'm still wanting to know why there is no reward being offered for info leading to the arrest and/or conviction of TW's murderer.

'Cos they already know who it is?

 

[raja]

Hypothetically only, If DN is responsible for both the Delphi murders and TW it would be a question of who gets him first. With the high publicity of the Delphi murders they may let Indiana get him first. No one wants to start the clock if murder charges are coming. Colorado still has time as does Indiana.

 

[foxbluff]

Agreed. I feel so bad for TW's family. I hope they have more answers than the public does.

Yes, I feel so bad for the family, too. I imagine they feel as though the rug has been jerked out from under them.

I feel sorry for all the locals (particularly the avid trail users) who must now either believe that TW's killer got away with murder or that an unknown killer is still walking among them.

You know, in cases like this, I always want to think that LE gives the family more info than they want the general public to know. But isn't there too great a chance that a family member will share the info (unburden themselves) with a friend and the next thing you know the media has it?!?

 

[Daey34]

I don’t feel stunned. It was totally what I was expecting. They didn’t want to prolong his presence in Colorado any longer, IMO. Again not saying that makes him guilty of any of these murders, but he committed multiple crimes across state lines and was committing several crimes in a National Forest. My opinion is that his cases now become federal jurisdiction, and he loses his kids to the state of Colorado when he’s wrapped up in Indiana.

I just keep going back over it in my head, and I feel so strongly that no judge would’ve made the decision to release DN, knowing that he chased adults and children on Mt Herman. There’s too much information out there at their disposal to make such an uncommon ruling. Most felons with handguns get 2-3 years, and there isn’t one individual out there who likes DN or says “yeah he can change.” I know a lot of people think that the justice system doesn’t play games like that. I disagree. It’s the only thing that makes sense. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But lots of people on here also said there’s no way they will extradite for a level 6 felony, and here we are.

BBM - You make a good case there!

However, imho, El Paso County made a good criminal case against him, too, but a judge gave him probation instead of jail time!

The only way I could have been more stunned by that decision is if, along with his walking papers, they returned the gun to him !!

 

[foxbluff]

'Cos they already know who it is?

Yeah..well..there's that.

Until now, I always thought Colorado believed they had TW's murderer in custody. But given what a slippery eel DN is, I simply can't understand why they didn't keep him in jail while they had him.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yeah..well..there's that.

Until now, I always thought Colorado believed they had TW's murderer in custody. But given what a slippery eel DN is, I simply can't understand why they didn't keep him in jail while they had him.

We have to understand everything was plea bargained by the attorneys. Perhaps this was planned and they knew he was being extradited all along, hence the gag order and the order preventing LE talking to him without his attorney present. This has been peculiar regarding this and all the dropped charges the assault, trespassing, the reckless endangerment, FTR and false reporting - that was some deal he got with no jail time - Maybe the Delphi murder charges are more further forward and there's more evidence (witnesses?). If he gets charged and convicted in Delphi, he may not even need a Co trial after that as he could just confess at that stage, who knows? I believe there is more evidence for Delphi ( Video, audio, witnesses, possible DNA, footprints, phone data, forensics ) than for Mt Herman.
I hope this is the case and LE know what they are doing and that TW's family are aware of what is going on.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Has there been any Co reporting of this extradition? Have the Co gazette forgotten about him now?

I haven't found any Co news. Perhaps the gag order is still in effect?

 

[Bill Carson]

Hello everyone. It took me a couple of days to read through this thread and catch up. I live in the Colorado Springs area, and I have hiked Mt. Herman several times. It is one of my favorite hikes, because it is fairly short from the parking lot to the summit, and it has a nice payoff with a wonderful view.

I hate that there is so much uncertainty about TW's murder. It makes me afraid to hike in that area. Before TW's murder, I wouldn't have thought twice about hiking Mt. Herman alone, but I won't now.

I have questions and some theories to share and I want to run some things past you guys. I'll do that in successive posts.

Let's hope LE can bring the killer to justice soon.

 

[Bill Carson]

Okay, so you guy's have said that TW would customarily leave his home in the Monument area, ride up Mt. Herman Road to the point where the trail hits the road, and then ride down the Limbaugh Canyon trail, right?

And we know that DN was caught menacing other cars on Mt. Herman Road.

What if the altercation between TW and DN (or whomever) started on Mt. Herman Road, as TW was riding up? DN might have come up behind TW going up the road, and gotten frustrated that he couldn't get past, or whatever, and started threatening TW with the hatchet and it starts getting ugly. TW might have even hit the bicycle tire with the hatchet, causing TW to have a flat.

As soon as TW reaches the trail to Limbaugh Canyon, he starts up that trail. (I believe the trail goes uphill before it reaches a ridge where it starts the descent toward Limbaugh Canyon, is that correct?) But the bike has a flat, and TW has to ditch the bike and start running up the trail to get away from DN. Somewhere along the way, TW loses a shoe, either before or after he ditches the bike, depending on which is closest to the road. TW could be injured at this point, either from the hatchet or the .22. TW runs off the trail downhill, down into the canyon, could be further injured, TW catches up and kills him. Then covers his body with leaves and branches in an effort to conceal the body.

Based upon what you know, is this a possible scenario?

 

[Bill Carson]

Here's another question: how tall was Tim Watkins?

The Indiana booking information listed DN as 5'10".

The reason I ask is that there was some discussion earlier in the thread that, since the bike and TW's body were found in different locations, that maybe the killer rode off on TW's bike. (From what I understand, the bike was located closer to Mt. Herman Rd, and the body was found off the trail further from the road, perhaps down in the canyon. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

I am about 5'9" or so, but I have little short legs: about a 29" inseam. There's no way that I can pedal a bike fitted for a taller or longer-legged rider.

I looked for but cannot find a picture that was posted of DN from the back (he was in a military uniform), and it looked like he had little short legs, too. Is it even possible that he could ride TW's bike? (Of course, he might walk it to another location.)

ETA: I found this photo of Tim and his bike on the mb forum. There's no way that I could pedal that bike, and I doubt DN could, either.