Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen-#4

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mysterygirl said:
Well I'm sure some places were better than others.

But I've watched and read about the abuses in many state run institutions. They are all over youtube. And some were absolutely horrible.

But none of that addresses the issue that many are missing.

It was decided that mentally ill people have rights too. So you can't commit someone indefinitely. I didn't decide that..........the courts did.

That is why there has to be some type of middle road.

It's sad and I don't know what the answer is besides some type of compromise between yesteryear and today.
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BBM

"Although patients involuntarily committed theoretically have a legal right to refuse treatment, refusal to take medications or participate in other treatments is noted by hospital staff. Court reviews usually are heavily weighted toward the hospital staff, with the patient input during such hearings minimal. In Kansas v. Hendricks, the US Supreme Court found that civil commitment is constitutional regardless of whether any treatment is provided."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Controversy_about_liberty

One example of a long-term/permanent facility:

"Greystone Program is a private, long-term community residential rehabilitation program designed to meet the special needs of adults with severe and persistent mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder and other major mental illnesses."

http://www.greystoneprogram.org/
 
johunt said:
My question still stands...what do you do when they refuse to take the meds? I have first hand experience with this. My friend on meds felt like he was "cured" and then sometimes he felt like he was "non-emotional therfore not a person". He decided to end it, thankfully he took no one else with him.

How do we medicate one who doesn't want to be medicated?
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Patients with a history of violence towards himself or others can have their medication compliance mandated by a court. If they don't take their antipsychotic meds, they will be hauled off to jail.
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/solution/assisted-outpatient-treatment-laws
http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...-illness-kendra-s-law-court-ordered-treatment

It is not against the law to be crazy and extremely annoying, so if this patient is not dangerous these family members would not be able to get court ordered medication compliance.

When approaching ER staff with a depressed family member who you feel will harm themselves, lie if needed and state that this person told you he/she wants to die and specifically told you that he/she made a specific plan. (I will deny posting that if asked. lol ) In this litigious time, there are extremely few ER docs that wouldn't try to find your loved one a psych bed (occasionally there are no open beds).
 
johunt said:
My question still stands...what do you do when they refuse to take the meds? I have first hand experience with this. My friend on meds felt like he was "cured" and then sometimes he felt like he was "non-emotional therfore not a person". He decided to end it, thankfully he took no one else with him.

How do we medicate one who doesn't want to be medicated?
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some meds are formulated to be applied topically (applied to the skin)

I've delivered anti-anxiety meds that way when the patient was resisting, by distracting them w/ conversation while rubbing their neck or back or arm

I was just a med tech in an assisted living facility which also had a locked unit (Alzheimer's), so I know my experience is limited. I do not know what formulations are available for other categories of meds
 
FootballMom said:
BBM

"Although patients involuntarily committed theoretically have a legal right to refuse treatment, refusal to take medications or participate in other treatments is noted by hospital staff. Court reviews usually are heavily weighted toward the hospital staff, with the patient input during such hearings minimal. In Kansas v. Hendricks, the US Supreme Court found that civil commitment is constitutional regardless of whether any treatment is provided."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Controversy_about_liberty

One example of a long-term/permanent facility:

"Greystone Program is a private, long-term community residential rehabilitation program designed to meet the special needs of adults with severe and persistent mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder and other major mental illnesses."

http://www.greystoneprogram.org/
Click to expand...
An involuntary admit in my state and many others can be legally medicated against their will without much "legal difficulty".
http://mentalhealth.vermont.gov/sites/dmh/files/report/DMH-State_by_State_Involutary_Medication.pdf
 
ami said:
A young man was interviewed who said he was a friend of the older brother, and said he used to babysit for AL to keep "an extra pair of eyes on him".

However this was the same one who said NL went to Lowes and bought mittens for folks living in NY in September after 9/11, so take that as you will....
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I'm actually replying to what you replied to- the murderer needing a babysitter, her going to the bar.

The reports of him needing to be watched constantly were about when he was younger, right? It could be that as he reached adulthood he insisted that be ok alone for a bit. It could also be that once he got "into" a video game, she could count on him being focused and distracted for at least few hours.

Just saying, maybe as he reached adulthood she came to let him have some time unattended.
 
JBean said:
You don't and you cannot. Unless they are under some sort of court order or in a facility- you cannot make an adult take meds. Adults are over 18 and that is that. The best you can do is convince them to get onboard.
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Agreed. Sadly some like Ms. Long will face this when her son is an adult or when he is "stronger" than her. That is the question none of us can answer how do we deal with these issues? We can't "lock" them up and we can't make them take their meds. I think sadly this has no real solutions.
 
They are taking a moment of silence on the Survivor Season Finale for the victims in Sandy Hook.
 
Pensfan said:
Patients with a history of violence towards himself or others can have their medication compliance mandated by a court. If they don't take their antipsychotic meds, they will be hauled off to jail.
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/solution/assisted-outpatient-treatment-laws
http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...-illness-kendra-s-law-court-ordered-treatment

It is not against the law to be crazy and extremely annoying, so if this patient is not dangerous these family members would not be able to get court ordered medication compliance.

When approaching ER staff with a depressed family member who you feel will harm themselves, lie if needed and state that this person told you he/she wants to die and specifically told you that he/she made a specific plan. (I will deny posting that if asked. lol ) In this litigious time, there are extremely few ER docs that wouldn't try to find your loved one a psych bed (occasionally there are no open beds).
Click to expand...


Thank you for posting this

I do know factually our brother is in the care/supervision of the local social services and because if this supervision he is required to take his meds

what gets really goofy is the type of residential home patients live in

Unsupervised group home and supervised group homes

Our brother's been in both, kicked out from both at times fo rnot taking his meds

Currently he's in an unsupervised group home where he's accountible for taking his meds...

It should be a blanket supervised med taking regardless ...Go Figure!
 
Ronso said:
Homeschooling and "spending too much time" with a child makes them psychotic?

Where do these TV doctors get their degrees? Quackerville University?
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Not that it applies in this case, but Yes!
Some people do over parent.

It's called "learned helplessness"

"When parents come to their child’s rescue, because it satisfies something in them to feel useful or to be seen as a savior, they often offer their children very little in the way of heartfelt empathy and true compassion. Instead, they teach the child to feel unhealthily dependent or ultimately rebellious against their over-attentive nature."

http://www.psychalive.org/2010/03/how-over-parenting-hurts-your-children-and-you/
 
Jbean are we close to having a separate forum for this tragedy?? We could branch out in so many ways right now.
 
Just to let everyone know they removed the picture and reference to the uncle in that article. Deleted it all.
 
I'm on my tablet, so please forgive errors or spellings. I will also try to be short and succient.
Nowhere did I see that Nancy Lanza was stockpiling anything for 12/12/12.
Apparently, she was concerned about an economic collapse. As are a whole bunch of smart people. Including myself. I am not crazy or even close to it.
News media stating she "stocked weapons" is probably false. She had weapons, probably not only to protect herself, family and property, but she apparently, from all who knew her, a responsible owner.
I do not intend to get into a "gun ownership debate here"
What I am willing to debate is self preservation.
Learning, how to handle a firearm, grow food, have a clean water source, have food supplies for household, including animals, knowing escape routes, having medical supplies and I could go on, is Not Crazy-it is prudent.
As well, as being able to protect oneself in the event that when you call 911 you get a busy signal.
By whatever means you have at your disposal. Guns, Pepper Spray, Dogs, Barricades, hiding-Running, or driving away.
None of us, should ever be so complacent, that, we think that "Someone" will come save our butts, or that "Someone" will bring food and water and shelter-just when we need it.
History proves that is not the way it works! You need to be on the front line for your and your loved ones survival-if the poop hits the fan.
That....kind of thinking is Not crazy.
IMO- Doing nothing to prepare for a calamity IS Crazy.



QUOTE=eileenhawkeye;8646192]IMO; stockpiling weapons because of 12/21/2012 does make you "off". You're planning on fighting off....Who? What? It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
 
fred&edna said:
Was AL's family the only family who lost a parent and a child?
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:waitasec: hmm I didn't catch that.
I just want to know that the parents of the victim's were
visited and told in private...
 
FootballMom said:
BBM

"Although patients involuntarily committed theoretically have a legal right to refuse treatment, refusal to take medications or participate in other treatments is noted by hospital staff. Court reviews usually are heavily weighted toward the hospital staff, with the patient input during such hearings minimal. In Kansas v. Hendricks, the US Supreme Court found that civil commitment is constitutional regardless of whether any treatment is provided."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Controversy_about_liberty

One example of a long-term/permanent facility:

"Greystone Program is a private, long-term community residential rehabilitation program designed to meet the special needs of adults with severe and persistent mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder and other major mental illnesses."

http://www.greystoneprogram.org/
Click to expand...


And if they show no violence to themselves or others? Until it's too late.....?
 
Wondergirl said:
The humble heroes of Sandy Hook

Updated 09:57 AM Dec 17, 2012

NEWTOWN (Connecticut) - A worker who turned on the intercom, alerting others in the building that something was very wrong. A custodian who risked his life by running through the halls warning of danger. A clerk who led 18 children on their hands and knees to safety, then gave them paper and crayons to keep them calm and quiet.

Out of the ruins of families that lost a precious child, sister or mother, out of a tight-knit town roiling with grief, glows one bright spot: The stories of staff members at Sandy Hook Elementary School who may have prevented further carnage through selfless actions and smart snap judgments.

http://www.todayonline.com/World/EDC121217-0000052/The-humble-heroes-of-Sandy-Hook
Click to expand...

Great story, thanks for posting this..

Every one of the deceased faculty and surviving school employees should unconditionally receive the Congressional Medal of Honor by the President'

I would be shocked if Obama's staff have not already thought of this
 
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