Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #5

[JBean]

From Nancy Grace's show (i know, I know. lol)

Richard Novia (the head of security until 2008 at Newton High School): Aspergers was part of it and there were other mental disorders that he (the killer) dealt with. I interacted with that boy for several years. I can testify to this.


I wonder why the head of security was interacting with the killer when he was a student.

I think they were concerned for his safety so a security officer may have been assigned to keep him secure.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324677204578183910797348422.html
Their fear wasn't that he was dangerous. "It was completely the opposite," said Richard J. Novia, the director of security at Newtown School District at the time in 2007. "At that point in his life, he posed no threat to anyone else. We were worried about him being the victim or that he could hurt himself."
ETA;
snip
The scrawny teenager with a mop of brown hair evoked feelings of sympathy, not fear, from teachers and the few classmates who even noticed him.


HTH

 

[Steely Dan]

My 5 year old came home from school today and told me 20 kids had died, I asked him who told him about that he said his teacher, he said they talked about where to go if they had to..then he began to tell me what they did in class and he told me there was a policeman at his school. DH and I had a long discussion with him tonight about what hapened and the bad people. This was a hardest talk I have had with my five year old.. He wanted to know if the policeman got the bad people, I told him the bad person died and he said did the policeman do it.. Then I tried to explain the best I could. Hug your kids tight..We never know..

Oh rainey, that must have been very, very difficult. Maybe you should tell him it's very, very, very unlikely that this will ever happen at his school.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...sacre-teacher-vicki-sotos-heroics-remembered/

Bless Victoria Soto, here's an article speaking about another child who was in her class who escaped with others.

I had heard she told the gunman the kids were in the gym. Anyway, we lost a true heroine.

There is a link on that site to sign a petition for the Medal of Freedom for Vicki Soto

I signed it too.

I know this was discussed before but I hadn't seen a follow up and I have a few questions because my hinky meter registered to Huh?. A man ran into the woods and was handcuffed by LE. I found an article that said who it was. Initials are CM. article states his wife volunteers in the classroom a lot, they have a six year old daughter. CM was there to make gingerbread houses with the class. First, I thought I read gingerbread house making was later in the day. Second, why was he not in the school with wife/daughter? Third why did he take off running into the woods from police- he said he heard shots and smelled sulfur and was going around the school to enter. Why was he wearing camo pants and dark jacket, I believe he works for the schools as an athletic director so attire is odd. It could all be bad timing, etc, but I wanted to get opinions from the good posters of WS. TIA
Ps. Hinky meter might have been a little whack considering when I searched the name one of the results was him living in Durango CO and I immediately associated it with Dylan Redwine.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hool-shooting-20121214,0,1650719.story?page=2
http://www.businessinsider.com/sandy-hook-man-in-the-woods-video-2012-12

BBM

Big hero.

 

[Pensfan]

There are still facilities for criminally insane people. But you have to commit a crime to be sent to such a facility. That's how it is determined that you're criminally insane.

As far as we know, Adam Lanza had no criminal record. The most anyone could do is commit him to a hospital for 72 hours if they could demonstrate that he was a danger to himself or others. It will be interesting to find out whether anyone ever tried this, though.

That is not quite true. Patients CAN be involuntarily kept for longer than 72 hours against their will. The physician is required to attend a mental competency court hearing IN PERSON on the day the 72 hours expires. With this doctor's court appearance and testimony, a patient can be kept for weeks/months (the amount varies per state).

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[SmoothOperator]

Come on ... he probably wore those pants because he likes them, he was there as a parent to do the gingerbread houses and maybe he ran away in sheer terror.

I just had a moment to pop in and happened to read the post about the "camo man from the woods" that so many of us have wondered about..I read the articles and watched the video and was so perplexed by it that i took my tablet over to my client whose under the hooded dryer while her color is processing, and I made her watch the video as well..

her response is the exact same as yours that the man is running out of sheer terror and having no real idea what exactly was happening just knew it was bad and was fleeing in fear..

it is strange to me in that one would think that the officers would be yelling out, identifying that they were LE, and for the man to stop..but as my client said who knows what they were yelling, even if they were yelling..

so, for me I just have no judgement for the man..I mean the situation is so far removed from a persons everyday reality that i could not say what or how I, myself would act or react to such trauma and fear...jmo..

 

[toscaxyz]

That is not quite true. Patients CAN be involuntarily kept for longer than 72 hours against their will. The physician is required to attend a mental competency court hearing IN PERSON on the day the 72 hours expires. With this doctor's court appearance and testimony, a patient can be kept for weeks/months (the amount varies per state).

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Thank you for clarifying that. I never knew that it could be extended.

 

[Pensfan]

Thank you for clarifying that. I never knew that it could be extended.

Doctors hate to take the entire day off of work (they won't be reimbursed) to go stand around at the courthouse waiting for their time to speak with the judge. In my experience, most individuals who were mentally ill and needed to be hospitalized for longer than 72 hours were convinced by the staff, their family, or their attorney to stay after the 72 hours. Once the patient is in a locked facility, medicated appropriately, and denied their addiction of choice (over 50% will have a substance addiction), it is easier to convince them that they really do need to be hospitalized.

 

[callyn]

BBM

Big hero.[/QUOTE]

Better than becoming another dead body. MOO

 

[Pensfan]

Turn on Dr. Drew. Later in the program, a doctor was PET scanning known psychopaths' brains and then scanned his own. He found he had the same abnormalities. He will talk about why he didn't end up as a serial killer.

I hope it is this neuroscientist on Dr. Drew's show:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

 

[tiredblondy]

off topic

How many post s does one have to have before they can receive a pm here at WS?

 

[JBean]

Turn on Dr. Drew. Later in the program, a doctor was PET scanning known psychopaths' brains and then scanned his own. He found he had the same abnormalities. He will talk about why he didn't end up a serial killer.

I hope it is this neuroscientist on Dr. Drew's show:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

MY step had a scan for his issues at The Amen Clinic (SPECT -IIRC)and their work is fascinating.
http://www.amenclinics.com/

 

[JBean]

off topic

How many post s does one have to have before they can receive a pm here at WS?

somewhere between 35 and 50

 

[SmoothOperator]

Says who? There is nothing that indicates she did much of anything to help what must have been a severely, emotionally disturbed individual. Nothing has been released to suggest he was receiving mental healthcare, past or present. There is nothing to indicate that she was doing something or doing nothing at all. Simply put, we just do not know. We do, however, know that there were massive amounts of weaponry in a house with someone who may or may not have shown outward signs of mental instability, before he killed his mother than killed children with the guns she purchased.

Why? Is my big question on that. From a general understanding of her background, her marriage, the town of Newtown, and her interests gun collecting seems out of character. Like, she doesn't fit the profile of that.

It is possible that she simply thought AL peculiar. Before Asperger's and Autism and ADHD there was what we long considered "the weird kid" in classes. They were the eccentric ones, the strange ones. Obviously being able to diagnose these kids is helping immensely and leading them towards more fulfilling lives, but it is possible that NL simply thought AL was just strange...

TBH and quite frank there truly is no "profile" of a person who collects and/or is interested in guns .. they come from all walks of life, all races, all socioeconomic classes, all levels of education, etc, etc.. there is no one certain type of person who collects or enjoys target or range shooting various types of firearms.. the spectrum is huge and people on every end of the spectrum and in between are the exact people who collect and shoot guns for enjoyment...

there honestly is no profile of what or who the people are that happen to for whatever reason collect and shoot firearms.. Even in my family and extended family alone those of us who own and shoot various different type guns do so for a wide variety of reasons or different interests and are from a wide variety of occupations..

 

[Kmonci]

I have actually met plenty of extreme animal rights activists who have stated they'd rather people get shot and killed than animals.

I thought about that, maybe he took it to an extreme and felt people are more expendable than animals.

 

[tiredblondy]

I know this is probably far out there but I remember reading somewhere that NL was getting ready for doomsday? That's why she was building up her arsenal. Does anyone remember that?

If that's the case could AL have thought he was saving her and the children from disaster?........


Naw guess that doesn't make too much sense.

 

[tiredblondy]

somewhere between 35 and 50

:seeya: Thanks

 

[Steely Dan]

BBM

Big hero.

Better than becoming another dead body. MOO

I'm not married and don't have kids, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would have run into that school if my wife and kids were there.

Turn on Dr. Drew. Later in the program, a doctor was PET scanning known psychopaths' brains and then scanned his own. He found he had the same abnormalities. He will talk about why he didn't end up as a serial killer.

I hope it is this neuroscientist on Dr. Drew's show:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

The guy's name is James Fallon and he was on an episode of "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole". His story is fascinating.

 

[Pensfan]

Cool! It is neuroscientist Dr. Fallon on Dr. Drew's show. He is a cousin of Lizzie Borden and has the same PET scan abnormalities as psychopathic killers that he has studied. He, unlike the killers that he has studied, had protective factors (a loving family) and although his brain is abnormal in the same areas as psychopaths, he can feel empathy.

 

[wfgodot]

I know this is probably far out there but I remember reading somewhere that NL was getting ready for doomsday? That's why she was building up her arsenal. Does anyone remember that?

If that's the case could AL have thought he was saving her and the children from disaster?........


Naw guess that doesn't make too much sense.

Yesterday several media outlets (in particular Britain's Daily Mail) were reporting the "prepper" thing but that information seemed to come only from a single source, NL's ex-sister-in-law.

 

[Pensfan]

Dr. Fallon says very little can be done to stop such killers. Such killers are not something that we can stop because our constitutional rights get in the way.

 

[hockeymom]

Doctors hate to take the entire day off of work (they won't be reimbursed) to go stand around at the courthouse waiting for their time to speak with the judge. In my experience, most individuals who were mentally ill and needed to be hospitalized for longer than 72 hours were convinced by the staff, their family, or their attorney to stay after the 72 hours. Once the patient is in a locked facility, medicated appropriately, and denied their addiction of choice (over 50% will have a substance addiction), it is easier to convince them that they really do need to be hospitalized.

When I worked in a psych hospital in San Diego,after the 72 hour hold,they had a hearing right at the hospital and then you could put the person on a 14 day hold. After that most people signed in voluntarily. As you probably know,most of the patients don't enjoy being paranoid,and hallucinating. They only go off the meds because of the side effects or in the case of someone who is bipolar,enjoy the early phases of mania.

Question for you Pensfan,in your experience did you ever feel like their were some patients who are truelly "evil",not crazy. I had one patient,who to this day,I think he was possessed,as crazy as that sounds. I get the chills just thinking of him,and I saw every kind of crazy,but their was something different about this one.