Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #6

[Wise Old Owl]

Here's another little tid-bit that you all should really - factually - find out about your individual districts.

Our school district here does not pre-employment drug test teachers. Yep. You read that right. Everyone else here is. Cafeteria workers, custodians, clerical staff in the office, etc. But teachers, substitutes and principals are not.

I know - it truly is unbelievable. I've told people and they call me a liar - I tell them to go make some phone calls and they usually get back to me with a "sorry".

Its a teacher's union thing - I don't get it - never have - never will. As a parent it bugged the hello outta me that my child was safer with the cafeteria lady than she was with her teacher in the classroom all day.

I have looked at schools all around the country - some do - some don't. There are quite a few districts now in Florida that do. But there are still a lot that don't. And that's everywhere.

I'm talking about drug tests - not background checks. Background checks are pretty mandatory all over the country. But - FGS you can't get a job at McDonald's nowadays without taking a drug test - yet here, in sunny South FloriDUH your kids teacher isn't required to do that.

Make any sense?


So, in your discussions with principals and districts - that's a question I would be asking and making sure I understood it as a "yes they are" or "no they aren't" answer.

 

[4MYGUYS]

I wonder if that type of weapon can just shoot off the door knob.

Earlier someone posted the cars were hit in the parking lot right through the wall.
But I understood from the first responders call to hearing an end to the gunshots was only a matter of 2-3 minutes. I cannot imagine trying to process the threat, then trying to lock doors, turn off lights and direct some 15-18 5-6 year olds to safety quietly. He was just too quick and prepared.

 

[Celeste]

A lot of this security is common sense. It really is - and its really mind-boggling to see how many staff members in school have absolutely none. Not all - I know an whole lot of many wonderful caring teachers - but I've also seen a whole lot of the others as well.

I think schools should be smaller. Even this school - 600 in an elementary - that's big - especially being out in the suburbs/country like they are. Schools could specialize - every child learns different. I'm seeing single gender classes come back. All boys or all girls - and I think that's good. I've had children that would have really benefited from that - does it work for all? No it doesn't. And to offer each - you are back to having at least 3 classes of every grade (one boys, one girls, one mixed) - in a K-5 school that's 18 classes - 360 +\- kids. That's ok - as long as you don't expand. I personally like only one or two classes per grade.

With smaller schools - smaller property. It really bothers me when people talk about turning the schools into prisons. No. No way. Celebrities live in HUGE mansions on "compounds" that are very very very secure - wouldn't call that prison. So, small school on a "compound" with enough property for classrooms, recess, playground, gym. etc. wouldn't be that big. Nice decorative concrete wall - with 2 gates (either buzzed or manned) and you're pretty safe.

Its these big mega-urbanville schools that really bother me. Here - there are over 235 schools in just my district alone! Yep. And our high schools are at populations over 5000 per school! How could even the best and the brightest not get "lost in the sauce" here?


Ok - I'm rambling now - I'll stop. But I'm glad this discussion is finally being had and change will come.

WOO, I agree with you re these mammoth elementary schools. In fact, I agree with you so much that I refuse to send my first grader to the 600+ student school around the corner. I have him at a very small charter school, we're talking about 14 kids per grade level. But I have to say, in a school that small, we can barely afford to fence in the playground, let alone the whole campus. We are very vulnerable, and I have always felt that, even before last week. I plan to approach the principal and the superintendent to ask them what they intend to do about it, but realistically, I can't imagine them being able to do very much. I appreciate the ideas being exchanged on this thread, because I am seriously going to propose some (of the cheaper ones) to our administrators.

 

[brighidin]

I heard that NL had no relation with the school. Then today I heard she was friends with the principle and did volunteer there. So ???

I read that Peter L's new wife was a librarian but no mention of where she worked. Someone linked an article earlier that AL ended the relationship with his father after PL remarried. Just speculating whether the new wife worked at a school.

It is a university library. I read it in an article posted here (but can't remember which one).

 

[SmoothOperator]

OK you are correct Roigs room was locked, thinking back on it she said in her interview she wouldn't let the police officer in- made him slide his badge under the door but she didn't think it looked real so she told him if he really was LE he would have a key...which he did.

But she didn't know why the shooter passed them by so was her door already locked and she simply closed it?
Since she did talk about the officer having the key on national TV I don't think anyone is hiding anything.

no, I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply that any of the teachers were being dishonest or misleading.. I meant that whomever was releasing those particular details about how the shooter passed right by Roig's room and that they had no explanation for why he passed Roig's room, but carried onto Rousseau's room where he killed everyone except the little girl who played dead.. in retrospect my now reading that article that made a clear distinction about they had no explanation why Roigs room was not entered, yet Rousseau's was..

IMO in Rousseau's father publicly stating that Rousseau didnt have a key to be able to lock her classroom door.. in my now knowing that piece of information IMO it appears that whoever gave those particular details about there being no explanation about Roig's room not being entered, and his carrying onto the next classroom and entering Rousseau's room..its my opinion that it quite likely was intentional to not bring up this door locking issue due to the fact that it could cause issues with IMO not only a backlash about this sub teacher being without the tools necessary to lock down her classroom and students..and therefor as a result the shooter was unable to enter Roig's room because she was able to lock her door, essentially sparing the lives of her and her students..whereas Rousseau was unable to have the opportunity to lock her classroom door.

which IMO could even lead to possible lawsuits..but that's jmo..
I just think that those in charge didn't want the entire lack of key may have cost teacher/student their lives uproar, so they simply avoided the entire issue as we saw in the Courant article..but now we do know about it because Rousseau's father brought forward the info to the media..

but all jmo, tho and didn't at all mean that I thought any of the teachers were being dishonest or misleading...just that those at the top of the food chain would IMO liked to have avoided the entire issue regarding the key/door locks being known to the media..jmo.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Furthermore, no matter how many locks, etc, etc, etc people such as this individual will find a way to do what they plan to do. The more life is "changed" to revolve around "them" the more we lose, the more it cost, etc, etc until what...we became prisoners in our own homes?

Respectfully, do you have any suggestions? I don't want to be a prisoner in my own home anymore than anyone else does, but when we have hundreds of our precious children gathered together in one place all day, we need to make sure they are secure. I don't know what the answer is.....no one here does. But this is a safe place to bounce around ideas. As a nurse, I believe the availability of mental health services (or rather lack there of) should also be addressed. All I know is these kids are worth fighting for, and I for one feel there are things we can do to improve their safety. MOO

 

[Pensfan]

But she did mention many Drs visits and many meds before it came to this... correct?

She stated that no medications could calm him. That is bs. I could snow a Tyrannosaurus with Haldol plus Ativan and many other medications. Many parents CHOOSE to not give their violent child appropriately sedating medications and meds that help with impulse control. I think this mom is one of them because there ARE many medications that calm violent patients and help with impulse control. Such parents have all kinds of excuses for not complying with their child's prescriptions:
-Well, he's not violent ALL the time, so I feel guilty about medicating him.
-After buying my cartons of cigarettes, I couldn't pay the co-pay on his meds for this month.
-I don't like the way that those meds alter his personality (which has been violent, unpredictable and scary...I'll never figure this one out.)
-It makes him take a nap in the afternoon and then he won't go to bed at night and I don't want to stay up and babysit him.
-I think he is cured, so I don't give those pills to him anymore.

I appreciate what you are saying, that was my thinking also in my original post. I think she was using your words above of "over emphazize" to make her point.




Well now she is doing that. She is reaching out to the community at large isnt she?

She is reaching out, but is this for her son or for her? I think she is drawing permanent negative attention to her son while attempting to get positive attention for herself.

Her photo has been all over the news. People will recognize her and shun her son who is now known internationally as a soon-to-be mass killer. Her son's photo is on her blog!

 

[Wise Old Owl]

WOO, I agree with you re these mammoth elementary schools. In fact, I agree with you so much that I refuse to send my first grader to the 600+ student school around the corner. I have him at a very small charter school, we're talking about 14 kids per grade level. But I have to say, in a school that small, we can barely afford to fence in the playground, let alone the whole campus. We are very vulnerable, and I have always felt that, even before last week. I plan to approach the principal and the superintendent to ask them what they intend to do about it, but realistically, I can't imagine them being able to do very much. I appreciate the ideas being exchanged on this thread, because I am seriously going to propose some (of the cheaper ones) to our administrators.

This is where it all falls apart. $$$$$$$$$$ - One thing I noticed. It was all volunteers that are helping to ready that closed school for the students of Sandy Hook. People will help. Parents that own or run companies could "donate" a little labor here or a fence there and even write it off as charity (well maybe - but I think they should be able to).

Instead of giving to these monstrous charities that end up only giving the actual recepients 25 cents on a dollar - donate to each other.

Education is expensive and really doesn't make anybody any money - certainly not a "capitalist" venture - KWIM? But if we all got together it could be done. After all - this is our future here....

 

[mikeysmommom]

Dont believe "locking" children up in school is an answer, spending more Govt money, creating more "monsters"..Society as a whole has sunk to unbelievable levels..Look at the people around you, not killers, the one's who think they should "have their way" because just because "they are so important...These same ppl are raising another generation ...This world has way more issues than this "one killer" posesses... Until people have morals, etc and many other things in their lives, I for one dont believe any thing is going to change what happens..Putting HUGH band aids on things, ie locking doors, hiring more police, etc will never solve any of it...!! and that is jmo

I agree I think the bigger picture here is mental illness and the stigma's attached to it.He went to that school and I would bet that is when they tried to get him help but his mom took him out instead of getting him the correct help.Changing schools a lot is a big red flag that she would not accept her son had a mental illness and instead of getting help she fled the school system ,then kept him home and taught him herself.If only she had gotten him help when he was younger this might never of happened.She was living the life,had the big house,husband with a terrific job.IMO Her inability to admit she had a child who needed serious mental health help caused the downfall of her marriage,she thought she could fix him and by the time she realized she could not it was too late.A lot of people said she talked about the son who was successful and barely talked about the one hidden away.She was ashamed that he was not perfect IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Respectfully, do you have any suggestions? I don't want to be a prisoner in my own home anymore than anyone else does, but when we have hundreds of our precious children gathered together in one place all day, we need to make sure they are secure. I don't know what the answer is.....no one here does. But this is a safe place to bounce around ideas. As a nurse, I believe the availability of mental health services (or rather lack there of) should also be addressed. All I know is these kids are worth fighting for, and I for one feel there are things we can do to improve their safety. MOO

As a parent, I feel it is ultimately MY job to ensure my child's safety. If I felt the school wasn't doing enough to protect mine, I'd pull him out.

The lack of mental health services is absolutely frightening.

 

[SmoothOperator]

It is a university library. I read it in an article posted here (but can't remember which one).

Here's the link regarding dad's new wife as a university librarian..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fe-Shelley-Cudiner-fled-Connecticut-home.html

on a different note mentioned upthread WRT mom's connection to Sandy Hook was that she did volunteer, and was friends with the principal/school psychologist that were both killed in the school shooting..long explanation short IMO it'll be clarified that mom was not volunteering and mom had no connection to principal/psychologist..jmo.. the entire premise IMO is faulty in that its implied that mom's connection to the principal/psychologist that were killed in the shooting was the reason why they were targeted and killed...when the reality is that they were not targeted, but rather were safe i n the cover of the conference room where they were meeting when gunfire erupted, and only became victims due to their decision to courageously attempt to tackle the shooter..

jmo that this particular latest reported info will be found to be inaccurate along with unfortunately alot of the other inaccurate and erroneous crap so many media outlets are reporting...ugh!

 

[Linda7NJ]

She stated that no medications could calm him. That is bs. I could snow a Tyrannosaurus with Haldol plus Ativan and many other medications. Many parents CHOOSE to not give their violent child appropriately sedating medications and meds that help with impulse control. I think this mom is one of them because there ARE many medications that calm violent patients and help with impulse control. Such parents have all kinds of excuses for not complying with their child's prescriptions:
-Well, he's not violent ALL the time, so I feel guilty about medicating him.
-After buying my cartons of cigarettes, I couldn't pay the co-pay on his meds for this month.
-I don't like the way that those meds alter his personality (which has been violent, unpredictable and scary...I'll never figure this one out.)
-It makes him take a nap in the afternoon and then he won't go to bed at night and I don't want to stay up and babysit him.
-I think he is cured, so I don't give those pills to him anymore.






She is reaching out, but is this for her son or for her? I think she is drawing permanent negative attention to her son while attempting to get positive attention for herself.

Her photo has been all over the news. People will recognize her and shun her son who is now known internationally as a soon-to-be mass killer. Her son's photo is on her blog!

I've seen psychiatrists very reluctant to prescribe the meds to children necessary to curb violent behavior. No reason he can't be doing the Thorazine shuffle if that's what it takes.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is where it all falls apart. $$$$$$$$$$ - One thing I noticed. It was all volunteers that are helping to ready that closed school for the students of Sandy Hook. People will help. Parents that own or run companies could "donate" a little labor here or a fence there and even write it off as charity (well maybe - but I think they should be able to).

Instead of giving to these monstrous charities that end up only giving the actual recepients 25 cents on a dollar - donate to each other.

Education is expensive and really doesn't make anybody any money - certainly not a "capitalist" venture - KWIM? But if we all got together it could be done. After all - this is our future here....

True Education isn't expensive and it most certainly is a bottomless money pit. Between administration, contracts to vendors and teacher unions I don't know how you can say it isn't a capitalist venture.

 

[Pensfan]

I've seen psychiatrists very reluctant to prescribe the meds to children necessary to curb violent behavior. No reason he can't be doing the Thorazine shuffle if that's what it takes.

If the child is threatening people with knives (as Long's child allegedly was), her options are very clear:
-get him prescription assistance and intense counseling, or
-expect him to be in prison soon (and expect to be a victim of his violence)

Psychiatrists are like most other specialities. They start out slow and with medications that usually are effective and less dangerous. When these don't work, they have to prescribe the "heavy hitters" or antipsychotics. The newer antipsychotics can cause tardive dyskinesia, but these have a decreased incidence of this compared to the older antipsychotics.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

OT- Remember the Bartlesville, OK teen arrested on friday for plotting? Police did find a semi-automatic in his home. He may have actually been serious rather than another random discontent.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20121218_12_0_BARTLE917694

Bartlesville schools were called off for tomorrow due to "credible threats", no words yet on if they are related or not. Could be empty threats, those seem to be out in droves. ETA- this paragraph I know just from people who live there, it's not from the article.

 

[Celeste]

Earlier someone posted the cars were hit in the parking lot right through the wall.
But I understood from the first responders call to hearing an end to the gunshots was only a matter of 2-3 minutes. I cannot imagine trying to process the threat, then trying to lock doors, turn off lights and direct some 15-18 5-6 year olds to safety quietly. He was just too quick and prepared.

I am a SAHM now, but I have taught both kinder and first grade in the past (I only taught for 4 years all together). In any case, I remember my first year of teaching, there was a robbery at gunpoint at the bank down the street, prompting the school to go into lockdown. Oh, man! If the criminal had been able to get anywhere near my classroom, he would have discovered us immediately. Keeping 23 kindergarteners calm and quiet in the dark for 30 minutes was an IMPOSSIBLE task for me.
That's just one reason that I am in awe of all of these teachers. I think some of these ladies displayed what I would consider to be a supernatural calm in the face of true horror.
Add to that, as you mentioned, the speed with which the police arrived, and the compliance of the children (all of whom could hear screams and gunshots over the PA), and really, you have a pitch-perfect response to a school shooting.
I know that we can't be clear on all the details yet, but from what I have read so far, it would seem apparent that God was with these innocents as they walked through the valley of darkness.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If the child is threatening people with knives (as Long's child allegedly was), her options are very clear:
-get him prescription assistance and intense counseling, or
-expect him to be in prison soon

Psychiatrists are like most other specialities. They start out slow and with medications that usually are effective and less dangerous. When these don't work, they have to prescribe antipsychotics. The newer antipsychotics can cause tardive dyskinesia, but it is much more infrequent than the older antipsychotics.

If only it were that easy! Some people are violent and not psychotic....antipsychotics don't do much if that's the case.

If my snowflake couldn't sit still just about any doctor would prescribe ADHD meds in a heartbeat. Meds that they wouldn't prescribe an adult for weight loss because they're too dangerous....but they'll hand em out like candy to children.

If my snowflake was suffering PTSD and couldn't sleep, suffered flashbacks and extreme anxiety....doctors wouldn't prescribe Xanax and intense therapy they'd recommend Benadryl or melatonin and perhaps 8 sessions of non specific therapy.

I don't know why that is. Honestly I can't understand it. It's woefully inadequate.

All IMO

 

[kalekona]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community- I totally knew you weren't talking about the teachers being dishonest but rather the powers that be.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am a SAHM now, but I have taught both kinder and first grade in the past (I only taught for 4 years all together). In any case, I remember my first year of teaching, there was a robbery at gunpoint at the bank down the street, prompting the school to go into lockdown. Oh, man! If the criminal had been able to get anywhere near my classroom, he would have discovered us immediately. Keeping 23 kindergarteners calm and quiet in the dark for 30 minutes was an IMPOSSIBLE task for me.
That's just one reason that I am in awe of all of these teachers. I think some of these ladies displayed what I would consider to be a supernatural calm in the face of true horror.
Add to that, as you mentioned, the speed with which the police arrived, and the compliance of the children (all of whom could hear screams and gunshots over the PA), and really, you have a pitch-perfect response to a school shooting.
I know that we can't be clear on all the details yet, but from what I have read so far, it would seem apparent that God was with these innocents as they walked through the valley of darkness.

IMO god was MIA

 

[LaneGirl]

New stuff in the news...

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articl...-planned-shooting-new-information-emerges.htm