Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #6

[callyn]

Exactly!!! If someone were in the office and could lock down the entire school, that would be perfect in the evil mind of someone who had then rigged the place to explode. This is a difficult and complicated problem to solve.

Or shoot his way into the office, shoot the person in the office and push the button to unlock ALL the doors. Whatever is done, someone will find a way around it. But we need to make it much harder!

 

[Pensfan]

If only it were that easy! Some people are violent and not psychotic....antipsychotics don't do much if that's the case.

If my snowflake couldn't sit still just about any doctor would prescribe ADHD meds in a heartbeat. Meds that they wouldn't prescribe an adult for weight loss because they're too dangerous....but they'll hand em out like candy to children.

If my snowflake was suffering PTSD and couldn't sleep, suffered flashbacks and extreme anxiety....doctors wouldn't prescribe Xanax and intense therapy they'd recommend Benadryl or melatonin and perhaps 8 sessions of non specific therapy.

I don't know why that is. Honestly I can't understand it. It's woefully inadequate.

All IMO

Antipsychotics work in the right dose. A violent patient can't be violent when he is dozing in the corner drooling on himself.

Children are very rarely prescribed benzos.

If you or anyone find your child's doctor to not be aggressive enough with treatment, I hope you will look for another doc and fire the old one.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

True Education isn't expensive and it most certainly is a bottomless money pit. Between administration, contracts to vendors and teacher unions I don't know how you can say it isn't a capitalist venture.

You're talking about the "system" that we have in place now. And you're right with the teacher's unions, pay to play vendors, corruption in the high up ranks, its all there.

Here, our superintendent makes well over quarter of a million per year. He has 4 secretaries (down from the 6 of the last one) and they make more than most of our senior teachers. This district employs between 15,000 - 20,000 teachers alone. One county. The waste and theft is so rampant its ridculous.

The money comes from the state and the fed. Regular students are getting somewhere around 6 - 7 thousand per year. Its the special ed kids that rake that money in. Yes, there are ESE kids that are truly ESE - but the rush to label some kids just to get that "designation" of ESE and the extra $$$$ tied to it is horrible.

Small schools would work. Once you get them up and running - its the "plant/facility" that costs. The building and land. Once you have that - then maintaining is fairly easy.

In the classroom - textbooks are very expensive. The technology isn't cheap either - Smart or Promethian Boards are expensive; laptop carts are $25k a piece w/printer.

But if people worked together it could be done. I guess what I should have said was that schools shouldn't be a capitalist venture.



JMHO

 

[SmoothOperator]

I wonder if that type of weapon can just shoot off the door knob.

moo is that absolutely had this individual wanted to get into A SPECIFIC CLASSROOM THATS DOOR WAS LOCKED, IMO yes, he could have shot his way through that door one way or another.. but here is why the door locking issue IMO IS SO CRITICAL HERE IN THIS CASE .. The shooter obviously WAS IN FACT DETERRED BY THE CLASSROOM DOOR BEING LOCKED, THIS EVIDENT DUE TO THE FACT THAT ONCE TRYING ROIG'S CLASSROOM DOOR AND FINDING IT LOCKED HE PROCEEDED ONTO THE NEXT CLASSROOM..

IMO its this proof that shows that Roig's classroom door being locked from the inside kept the shooter from entering the classroom, thus sparing the lives of Ms. Roig and her students.. and due to the fact that Roig's classroom was locked the shooter proceeded forward to Rousseau's classroom to which he found the door UNLOCKED, THEREBY ENTERING THE CLASSROOM AND HIS PROCEEDING TO KILL EVERYONE IN THE CLASSROOM(except the one little girl who survived)...

so, while IMO yes, the shooter could have shot up the door/shot off the door knob, etc to gain entrance to A LOCKED CLASSROOM DOOR..he, however did not..the door locked was enough of a deterrent for the shooter to leave and proceed forward to find IMO obviously a path of least resistance, to which he came upon Rousseau's unlocked door..

in this case specifically I feel that there is evidentiary proof positive that the locked classroom door saved the lives of Roig and her students.. Rousseau unfortunately did not have the opportunity to find out if her being able to lock her classroom door would have spared their lives as well.. that opportunity was not afforded her due to reasons beyond her control and its all of this as described above that makes it a problematic issue that she didn't have a key, and therefor the very real question of if she did have that key could her classroom door being locked have also spared her and her students lives as it did for Roig and her students..

that's why its such an important issue regardless of the fact that he had a weapon that could have gotten him beyond a locked door..

jmo.

 

[4MYGUYS]

I am a SAHM now, but I have taught both kinder and first grade in the past (I only taught for 4 years all together). In any case, I remember my first year of teaching, there was a robbery at gunpoint at the bank down the street, prompting the school to go into lockdown. Oh, man! If the criminal had been able to get anywhere near my classroom, he would have discovered us immediately. Keeping 23 kindergarteners calm and quiet in the dark for 30 minutes was an IMPOSSIBLE task for me.
That's just one reason that I am in awe of all of these teachers. I think some of these ladies displayed what I would consider to be a supernatural calm in the face of true horror.
Add to that, as you mentioned, the speed with which the police arrived, and the compliance of the children (all of whom could hear screams and gunshots over the PA), and really, you have a pitch-perfect response to a school shooting.
I know that we can't be clear on all the details yet, but from what I have read so far, it would seem apparent that God was with these innocents as they walked through the valley of darkness.

I TOTALLY A!!!
And what was new for the first responders was to immediately storm the building, which was unfortunately learned from holding back at VA Tech, Thank you and prayers for all of those who bravely responded.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Antipsychotics work in the right dose. A violent patient can't be violent when he is dozing in the corner drooling on himself.

Children are very rarely prescribed benzos.

If you find your child's doctor to not be aggressive enough with treatment, I hope you will look for another doc and fire the old one.

If I had any of those problems I absolutely would!

But I've seen violent children, many many of them.....their families live in constant chaos. Other children in the home are hyper vigilant, fearful, often targets and victims in every sense of the word. IMO They should be in a residential facility not in a home setting. Families shouldn't have to live like that. It's not fair to the violent child, siblings ...parents...it's really hell.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I don't like the way that those meds alter his personality (which has been violent, unpredictable and scary...I'll never figure this one out.)

clipped for simplicity

I agree with most of your post, so I'm not arguing. Just lending some insight to the bolded.

I think a lot of parents don't wait it out for the meds to balance. With my step brother I was a caretaker. Diagnosed young with bipolar quite young, but now on antipsychotics with a couple labels. I fed him, I calmed him, I tucked him in at night. When I saw him in the hospital, I was SO ANGRY that they were letting people do this to him. I still can't help but admit that my intuitive feeling was that it was harmful for him, and that a healthy home life could have really gone further than the hospital, but I digress.

And, yes, he could be violent and he had major rages- but there was also a sweet and precarious quality about this child. Adorable dimples, round cheeks, broad smile. Until the meds balanced, that was completely gone. He seemed empty, and it's hard to see.

Anyway, eventually they found the right balance of meds and we got to get to that "sweet spot." I think a lot of apprehensive parents throw in the towel before they get there.

As a mom, it's hard to know when to listen to that inner voice, and when to trust others.

 

[LaneGirl]

moo is that absolutely had this individual wanted to get into A SPECIFIC CLASSROOM THATS DOOR WAS LOCKED, IMO yes, he could have shot his way through that door one way or another.. but here is why the door locking issue IMO IS SO CRITICAL HERE IN THIS CASE .. The shooter obviously WAS IN FACT DETERRED BY THE CLASSROOM DOOR BEING LOCKED, THIS EVIDENT DUE TO THE FACT THAT ONCE TRYING ROIG'S CLASSROOM DOOR AND FINDING IT LOCKED HE PROCEEDED ONTO THE NEXT CLASSROOM..

IMO its this proof that shows that Roig's classroom door being locked from the inside kept the shooter from entering the classroom, thus sparing the lives of Ms. Roig and her students.. and due to the fact that Roig's classroom was locked the shooter proceeded forward to Rousseau's classroom to which he found the door UNLOCKED, THEREBY ENTERING THE CLASSROOM AND HIS PROCEEDING TO KILL EVERYONE IN THE CLASSROOM(except the one little girl who survived)...

so, while IMO yes, the shooter could have shot up the door/shot off the door knob, etc to gain entrance to A LOCKED CLASSROOM DOOR..he, however did not..the door locked was enough of a deterrent for the shooter to leave and proceed forward to find IMO obviously a path of least resistance, to which he came upon Rousseau's unlocked door..

in this case specifically I feel that there is evidentiary proof positive that the locked classroom door saved the lives of Roig and her students.. Rousseau unfortunately did not have the opportunity to find out if her being able to lock her classroom door would have spared their lives as well.. that opportunity was not afforded her due to reasons beyond her control and its all of this as described above that makes it a problematic issue that she didn't have a key, and therefor the very real question of if she did have that key could her classroom door being locked have also spared her and her students lives as it did for Roig and her students..

that's why its such an important issue regardless of the fact that he had a weapon that could have gotten him beyond a locked door..

jmo.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this convo just based on reports that Ms. Soto's door aparently wasn't locked either and she was a regular teacher. I'm thinking things just happened way to fast that even if she had a key (which she most def should have)she like Ms. Soto wouldn't have had time to lock. No disrespect just a differing opinion on this one issue.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I think Miss Soto's classroom was unlocked because it was a special day. They were going to construct their gingerbread houses and she probably had parents in and out all morning long - dropping off stuff, letting her know that mom would be back or dad was giong to come too, and it was finally starting to calm down - morning announcements, settling the kids in for the morning work and she just hadn't had the time to walk over and lock that door.

Or was that a suite room to Ms. Rousseau's room and he went through the connecting door? I don't think so - not from what I've heard - but it could be.




JMHO

 

[Celeste]

IMO god was MIA

Yes, Linda7NJ, I can certainly understand that perspective.

As for myself, as deeply horrific as the situation is, sometimes, as I read, I find my heart swelling with gratitude to God for all the lives that were spared, when the gunman had so much more ammo on him. I am grateful for the outpouring of love and support that has been send Newtown's way, not just from our nation, but from all over the world. I am grateful for the grace and strength supplied to the families of these victims. I am also grateful for this board, and for all of you, who are helping me to process this terrible event that has affected me so deeply, as a former teacher of first graders and a mother of a six-year old.

Thanks to all of you, really. I hardly ever participate in the conversation, but I know Websleuths is one of the best places for me to be right now.

 

[Pensfan]

clipped for simplicity

I agree with most of your post, so I'm not arguing. Just lending some insight to the bolded.

I think a lot of parents don't wait it out for the meds to balance. With my step brother I was a caretaker. Diagnosed young with bipolar quite young, but now on antipsychotics with a couple labels. I fed him, I calmed him, I tucked him in at night. When I saw him in the hospital, I was SO ANGRY that they were letting people do this to him. I still can't help but admit that my intuitive feeling was that it was harmful for him, and that a healthy home life could have really gone further than the hospital, but I digress.

And, yes, he could be violent and he had major rages- but there was also a sweet and precarious quality about this child. Adorable dimples, round cheeks, broad smile. Until the meds balanced, that was completely gone. He seemed empty, and it's hard to see.

Anyway, eventually they found the right balance of meds and we got to get to that "sweet spot." I think a lot of apprehensive parents throw in the towel before they get there.

As a mom, it's hard to know when to listen to that inner voice, and when to trust others.

ITA. Many families have become so accustomed to the mental health drama that occurs unpredictably in their home, that the sudden change in their loved one's affect when administered medications is very shocking. They had hoped that only the negative aspects of the personality would be altered, but their loved one appears drowsy and flat. Patients are usually sleepy when first prescribe antipsychotics, but they adjust within weeks of staying on a specific dosage (not increasing it).

It is sad that there isn't a machine that mental health patients can stick their head in and immediately receive the correct prescription for their problem. It is trial and error to find the best medication. Many people decide after the first medication trial that nothing will work or the necessary doctor visits are taking too much of their time.

The same situation occurs with kids and ADHD stimulants. It is trial and error until the correct medication is found.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I think Miss Soto's classroom was unlocked because it was a special day. They were going to construct their gingerbread houses and she probably had parents in and out all morning long - dropping off stuff, letting her know that mom would be back or dad was giong to come too, and it was finally starting to calm down - morning announcements, settling the kids in for the morning work and she just hadn't had the time to walk over and lock that door.

Or was that a suite room to Ms. Rousseau's room and he went through the connecting door? I don't think so - not from what I've heard - but it could be.




JMHO

A lot of schools don't lock their doors unless they are on lockdown. Our doors are almost always open. The one time I witnessed a lockdown, teachers grabbed keys (the couple I saw had it on their ID lanyard) and locked the doors. The doors locked from inside, so the teacher wouldn't have to exit the room. They also turned off the lights and went to a predetermined safe spot in the room so they couldn't be seen from the door. A lot of the teachers have their little windows covered, too.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this convo just based on reports that Ms. Soto's door aparently wasn't locked either and she was a regular teacher. I'm thinking things just happened way to fast that even if she had a key (which she most def should have)she like Ms. Soto wouldn't have had time to lock. No disrespect just a differing opinion on this one issue.

yep, you're correct in that I absolutely believe that it happened so fast that there were teachers for whatever cause or reason possibly didn't get their doors locked, or maybe thought they were locked, or closed completely, etc, etc the list goes on and on of why those who had the option or tools available them didn't, or couldn't get their classroom doors locked..and I am in zero way placing blame IF that situation to have occurred(IF is the key word) and why I was adamant about my in no way whatsoever having any judgement or blame if that were to have occurred in that frantic, terror that they were facing out of the clear blue..

but the fact remains the same with my above described opinion regarding Rousseau NOT HAVING A KEY AVAILABLE TO HER..and I stand by that opinion..

a locked classroom door saved the lives of Roig and her students , when the shooter found that it was locked and proceeded forward to another room..

Rousseau's father has come forward that his daughter did not have a key and therefor she did NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOCK HER DOOR as Roig did..

I made perfectly clear that there is no way to know what would have happened if she had the key, the fact remains that she was not afforded that opportunity to lock her door.. an opportunity that Roig had and used and it proved to save their lives..

comfortable or not the fact remains that Rousseau's not having those tools available her to lock down her classroom is problematic IMO..

 

[Donjeta]

I was just watching a news story interview from Nancy Lanza's neighbors, they said she was very demanding, high strung towards her son ...police searched the boy's bedroom and it was immaculate, clothes folded, nothing lying on the floor in disbelief a 20 year old could be so tidy, clean

But we don't know it was like that all time, do we?
He knew what he was about to do and could have cleaned up and thrown stuff away in preparation for the police, just as he smashed his hard drives knowing that his house would be searched.

 

[Sin City]

This information is from 2002. Columbine was in 1999. Recommended procedures and protocols have yet to be put in place at my childs elementary school. Ten (10) years later, and the money isn't being used to protect our children. Test scores are certainly a top priority at our elementary school though! It didn't matter that a staff member was nominated as a security coordinator & was specifically trained by the school district of newly learned safety protocols (from studies done by the FBI after Columbine) in order to pass them along to the principal and staff. The principal was too concerned with testing scores for months to meet with this safety coordinator. This teacher/trained safety coordinator is not at the school this year due to budget cuts. Let's hope that our principal and staff will become educated on the new safety protocols that have been recommended by the experts.

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/factsheets/threatassess_fs.aspx

Although there is no official model for threat assessment, experts in school crisis management, mental health, and public safety have identified common basic components of effective threat assessment procedures. The U.S. Secret Service and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) have taken a leadership role in collecting data and developing recommended procedures and protocols. (Access full reports at http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/ntac_ssi.shtml and http://www.fbi.gov/publications/school/school2.pdf) The following information can help schools establish a threat assessment process, but school officials also should review comprehensive recommendations and arrange for formal training of staff.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Security in our schools is a very tricky topic.

While we have all been discussing locked doors, safe places, covering windows - that is if the threat is within the walls of the school.

For about 7 years the school I was in was right next door to the middle school. It was basically all one big piece of property.

Every semester at the end - when the middle school was taking finals - there would be bomb threats almost on a regular basis. And we would evacuate also.

Me and another good friend of mine (teacher) got very leery after 1998. 1998 Jonesboro, Arkansas - two boys had a 3rd boy pull the fire alarm while they waited on a nearby hill with grandpa's stolen guns. They killed 5. IIRC it came out that it was all over a little girl - can't remember if they killed her or not - I do remember that a teacher was hit and killed. So, every time we had a bomb threat or someone pulled a fire alarm - we were watching all around us while we stood in that big ole open parking lot.

There is a lot to think about when talking about school security and every situation and scenerio needs to be looked at.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I still can't post here as this has broken my heart for the children who died, teachers/staff and their families. I read but find myself when it gets too sad I'm going to another website or thread even because it's just so upsetting.

This is just so sad. I'll try to toughen up but when I see a child's picture on here, I just cry over the saddness one person caused and why. Let a child be a child world, fgs.

I do wish the news would get cleared up as much as possible, asap. It's frustrating to know what is legit and what isn't. I'll wait for LE's statement, I guess. RIP little ones, RIP. jmo

 

[kalekona]

yep, you're correct in that I absolutely believe that it happened so fast that there were teachers for whatever cause or reason possibly didn't get their doors locked, or maybe thought they were locked, or closed completely, etc, etc the list goes on and on of why those who had the option or tools available them didn't, or couldn't get their classroom doors locked..and I am in zero way placing blame IF that situation to have occurred(IF is the key word) and why I was adamant about my in no way whatsoever having any judgement or blame if that were to have occurred in that frantic, terror that they were facing out of the clear blue..

but the fact remains the same with my above described opinion regarding Rousseau NOT HAVING A KEY AVAILABLE TO HER..and I stand by that opinion..

a locked classroom door saved the lives of Roig and her students , when the shooter found that it was locked and proceeded forward to another room..

Rousseau's father has come forward that his daughter did not have a key and therefor she did NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOCK HER DOOR as Roig did..

I made perfectly clear that there is no way to know what would have happened if she had the key, the fact remains that she was not afforded that opportunity to lock her door.. an opportunity that Roig had and used and it proved to save their lives..

comfortable or not the fact remains that Rousseau's not having those tools available her to lock down her classroom is problematic IMO..

Why do you believe Roig's door was locked? Nothing I have heard leads me to believe that, in fact her description of what happened doesn't either.

Rousseau certianly should have had a key but I don't think any of the classroom doors were locked.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, Linda7NJ, I can certainly understand that perspective.

As for myself, as deeply horrific as the situation is, sometimes, as I read, I find my heart swelling with gratitude to God for all the lives that were spared, when the gunman had so much more ammo on him. I am grateful for the outpouring of love and support that has been send Newtown's way, not just from our nation, but from all over the world. I am grateful for the grace and strength supplied to the families of these victims. I am also grateful for this board, and for all of you, who are helping me to process this terrible event that has affected me so deeply, as a former teacher of first graders and a mother of a six-year old.

Thanks to all of you, really. I hardly ever participate in the conversation, but I know Websleuths is one of the best places for me to be right now.

Honestly speaking as an atheist I am thrilled for those that gain comfort through their faith.

It truly is remarkable to me that during times like this ...victims families, the community, and survivors can draw strength and a sense of peace from their respective faiths.

I'm awed and a tad envious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MaraSleuth]

I agree - everything I read said the killer walked by Roig's room. I did see an article where it was said her door was locked.