These last witnesses are on the California review board and they are the ones with the definitions of standard of care, so apparently there is. Woops just realized you asked about the legalities, don't know about what it means in criminal law.
Conrad Murray trial -Day eleven.
- Thread starter Soulmagent
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These last witnesses are on the California review board and they are the ones with the definitions of standard of care, so apparently there is. Woops just realized you asked about the legalities, don't know about what it means in criminal law.
From what I have gathered, this use of the term standard of care is established protocol set by the Medical Board of California. It is those standards and protocol that is being reviewed on dr. murray by this witness and the previous witness. They are both expert reviewers for the state board and were requested by the board to do a review on this case. They are testifying to their findings in their report to the board.
Here's my take on that. The extreme deviations (the worst deviation class in the standard protocol) are also classified as gross negligence by the reviewers. They've both said this and the prosecution has asked this quite a number of times on direct.
Gross Negligence is a legal term.
peace9274
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The way the prosecutor is driving it into the ground and being so repititious with it,
and making sure the jury gets it... I'd say it was.
But not sure. Just MOO. I'd think that it pretty much standard law stuff.
I got my original nurses license in Calif and it was drilled into our heads when
we were learning about Nursing Practices and the Law. I also worked in CT and
"standard of care" for legal purposes was mentioned a lot there, also.
Hitting the thanks button was just not enough. Thank you for all your trial reports and your interpretation of those reports. They are invaluable. I really appreciate them.
Break over and direct testimony continuing.
Talking about what happens when brain loses oxygen and lack of blood flow. ( I was afk when testimony started back up so no idea what he started off with)
Going over what parts of the brain are effected first due to lack of oxygen and then how it progresses the more the lack of blood flow and oxygen happens. (sounds like he is talking about how time is of the essence to get emergency care - 4 to 5 minutes brain cells begin to die. Beyond 5 minutes it is quite devastating to the brain.
Talking about what happens when brain loses oxygen and lack of blood flow. ( I was afk when testimony started back up so no idea what he started off with)
Going over what parts of the brain are effected first due to lack of oxygen and then how it progresses the more the lack of blood flow and oxygen happens. (sounds like he is talking about how time is of the essence to get emergency care - 4 to 5 minutes brain cells begin to die. Beyond 5 minutes it is quite devastating to the brain.
tezi
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octobermoon
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He agrees with the other Doctor that CM is responsible for MJ's death.
Sleep Medicine Care Extreme Deviations witness stated in board review report:
1. At no time did Dr. Murray provide or have a diagnostic evaluation of MJ's insomnia performed (now saying why that is so important to determine the reason for the insomnia - a lot is involved in that from the sounds of it). There are different types of insomnia and prosecution has asked him to briefly explain the different types. If underlying condition is found, that is treated first and then the insomnia is looked at to see if it improved. witness: this is an extreme deviation to treating insomnia (witness noted in his report that Dr. Murray states MJ was seeing other drs and he noticed IV marks on him but got no further information on this. Witness says Murray should have gotten the information on that and if he didn't, then treatment should have been refused. Unethical to treat him otherwise when ignoring the patient's past and instead just moving to these extreme sedation methods. Talked a lot about primary and secondary causes of insomnia.
2. no detailed pharmaceutical history (over the counter, RX, illicit, etc. - everything)
3. no detailed physical exam/history
4. no lab testing to rule out basic conditions as the cause of sleep problems
Pharmacological approach to treating insomnia.
Witness: 8 agents approved by FDA. Some are in the benzodazopiens and some are not. (okay he is confusing me with the benzo... non benzo...lingo but there's a difference and one is addictive others are not)
P: as far as benzodiaz... what are those treatments approved by the FDA for insomnia
w: (lots of pams...many i didn't recognize from prior testimony)
p: benzodiaz that are approved by FDA they are all in oral, not IV
w: yes
p: you are aware of the drugs Dr. M was giving MJ (lists them)
w: yes
p: IV lirizapam long term management care for insomnia
w: no, that is not appropriate long term management
p: asking about oral forms for long term care
w: not really, highly addictive drug no longer than 3 to 4 weeks
p: using the combination or singly using any of the drugs Dr. M was treating MJ was classified as you as extreme deviation of care for insomnia
w: yes
p: and the use of propofol
w: utterly has no management for insomnia, regardless of setting has no use for insomnia.
p: why did you make the statement that use of propofol for insomnia like in this case, inconceivable and unethical, why is that
w: never even fathom doing, no reason to use this drug for insomnia
p: (oh wow) you state that Dr. M caused MJ's death
w: that is correct
p read long statement included in report that was terribly damning to Dr.M. and ended with that Dr. M caused MJ's death.
Now talking about how these drugs were left in MJs reach and that is gross negligence and a very foreseeable complication.
1. At no time did Dr. Murray provide or have a diagnostic evaluation of MJ's insomnia performed (now saying why that is so important to determine the reason for the insomnia - a lot is involved in that from the sounds of it). There are different types of insomnia and prosecution has asked him to briefly explain the different types. If underlying condition is found, that is treated first and then the insomnia is looked at to see if it improved. witness: this is an extreme deviation to treating insomnia (witness noted in his report that Dr. Murray states MJ was seeing other drs and he noticed IV marks on him but got no further information on this. Witness says Murray should have gotten the information on that and if he didn't, then treatment should have been refused. Unethical to treat him otherwise when ignoring the patient's past and instead just moving to these extreme sedation methods. Talked a lot about primary and secondary causes of insomnia.
2. no detailed pharmaceutical history (over the counter, RX, illicit, etc. - everything)
3. no detailed physical exam/history
4. no lab testing to rule out basic conditions as the cause of sleep problems
Pharmacological approach to treating insomnia.
Witness: 8 agents approved by FDA. Some are in the benzodazopiens and some are not. (okay he is confusing me with the benzo... non benzo...lingo but there's a difference and one is addictive others are not)
P: as far as benzodiaz... what are those treatments approved by the FDA for insomnia
w: (lots of pams...many i didn't recognize from prior testimony)
p: benzodiaz that are approved by FDA they are all in oral, not IV
w: yes
p: you are aware of the drugs Dr. M was giving MJ (lists them)
w: yes
p: IV lirizapam long term management care for insomnia
w: no, that is not appropriate long term management
p: asking about oral forms for long term care
w: not really, highly addictive drug no longer than 3 to 4 weeks
p: using the combination or singly using any of the drugs Dr. M was treating MJ was classified as you as extreme deviation of care for insomnia
w: yes
p: and the use of propofol
w: utterly has no management for insomnia, regardless of setting has no use for insomnia.
p: why did you make the statement that use of propofol for insomnia like in this case, inconceivable and unethical, why is that
w: never even fathom doing, no reason to use this drug for insomnia
p: (oh wow) you state that Dr. M caused MJ's death
w: that is correct
p read long statement included in report that was terribly damning to Dr.M. and ended with that Dr. M caused MJ's death.
Now talking about how these drugs were left in MJs reach and that is gross negligence and a very foreseeable complication.
It's over for the day. Starting up again at 8:45am PST tomorrow.
I'm sure we will see Flanagan crossing this witness first thing tomorrow morning.
octobermoon
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Done for today. See ya in the am.
Oh goody. JVM is calling the first Dr. Doctor dreamy. She says that is what they are calling him. Who is they JVM?