Conrad Murray trial -Day eleven.

[octobermoon]

Exteme violation of care to give MJ all those meds. (paraphrase as this man speaks much better than I can spell )

 

[octobermoon]

The meds combined together can cause oxygen to drop so low as to cause cadiac arrest.

 

[Thundar]

The perfect storm appeared here which happened in Mr. Jackson's death.

 

[borndem]

Hearing all this "deviation from the standard of care," and "egregious," and "bizarre," and "grossly negligent," and "inconceivable," and "brain death in ten minutes," and "extreme violation," and, and, and, how can the Defense Team defend this man without putting him on the stand?

What aces can they possibly have up their sleeves? What M.D. would take the stand to defend any of this? What literature would support what he did?

Seriously, any ideas, anyone?

 

[Thundar]

Hearing all this "deviation from the standard of care," and "egregious," and "bizarre," and "grossly negligent," and "inconceivable," and "brain death in ten minutes," and "extreme violation," and, and, and, how can the Defense Team defend this man without putting him on the stand?

What aces can they possibly have up their sleeves? What M.D. would take the stand to defend any of this? What literature would support what he did?

Seriously, any ideas, anyone?

Well, so far defense has been relying on BS and confusion, I would bet they just keep that up. Then they will call their own experts who will try to tell us everything Murray did was business as usual. Just a hunch!

 

[Soulmagent]

He had no pulse but his heart was beating at 122 beats per minute?

 

[octobermoon]

talking about not calling 911, and wrong way to perform CPR, because of the soft surface, and the use of only one hand.

 

[Talina]

Witness found multiple extreme deviations in his state board review of Dr.Murray's care of MJ both in the use of propofol and treating sleep/insomnia problems.

Propofol deviations first:

1. Setting where Dr. Murray was providing propofol was unacceptable and egregious violation of care (outside the area of a highly monitored environment). Inconceivable to this witness to use outside a monitored setting.
2. My words - didn't catch the actual phrasing of prosecution: not trained in the use of propofol and not trained in the critical care of handling the risks/potential complications.
3. Lack/absence of bedside nursing assistance
4. Pre procedure setup - imperative to be prepared for unforeseen circumstances - talking about lack of monitoring equipment and responsive equipment in the event of an unforeseen complication (listing them all out). specifically said it is imperative to have an infusion pump when you are using propofol. Pros asks if he has ever seen or heard of a dr using propofol in a home setting like in this case. Witness says no, never have seen or heard of this before.
5. Lack of medical records or charting
6. Need for continuous and constant monitoring and observation (abandonment of patient occurred in this case) witness: This with someone receiving sedation is unacceptable, even more egregious violation since all of the monitoring equipment that should have been there was totally absent.
7. Concurrent administration of benzodiazepines with propofol is egregious violation. It is unpredictable with propofol by itself and putting these two mixtures together makes it have a synergistic effect. Result in more pronounced decreased in blood and more significant respiratory depression, or cease in breathing altogether. (my comment: so there you have it folks - the coroner's cause of death)
8. Witness says MJ being dehydrated (per Dr. Murray) means his blood circulating is limited (happens with dehydration) can in someone cause lowering blood pressure, then to add these two sedatives was not good. These sedatives, even one instead of both, should have not been given to a patient that is dehydrated.
9. Failure to call 911. Extreme and unconscionable violation in the standard of care.
7. Ineffective and improper CPR performed by Dr.Murray. When first found, noted to have thready pulse and not breathing. Most important thing at that point would have been to deal with breathing issue, not chest compression. CPR performed on any surface other than a hard surface is unacceptable and using only one hand can't effectively give the proper chest compression. Even when given right chest compressions,, you are really only giving 20% of the normal blood flow and ineffective CPR is a disservice cause it is even less than the 20% when given properly.

mid afternoon break

 

[Thundar]

Midafternoon break.

 

[Thundar]

He had no pulse but his heart was beating at 122 beats per minute?

The other witness talked about 122 beats per minute too. That must be in Murrays interview with the police.

 

[octobermoon]

He had no pulse but his heart was beating at 122 beats per minute?

When DH was dying they couldn't find a pulse even with an infant pulse/ox on his earlobe. But I could still feel his heart beat with my head on his chest. I could hear it faintly too. Maybe someone else knows why.

 

[Soulmagent]

:waitasec:I am not a chemist but wouldnt 122 beat per minute cause rapid pulse?

 

[Thundar]

When DH was dying they couldn't find a pulse even with an infant pulse/ox on his earlobe. But I could still feel his heart beat with my head on his chest. I could hear it faintly too. Maybe someone else knows why.

I believe when organs shut down in death the heart is the last. After an airway tube is shut down the heart will beat for a little while. In a healthy heart. In heart disease it might be different.

 

[peace9274]

The other witness talked about 122 beats per minute too. That must be in Murrays interview with the police.

I didn't hear that with this witness, but Murray did say in his interview with LE, that when he returned
from urinating (2 minutes, he claims), Michael was NOT breathing, but did have a pulse of 122.

The rapid pulse was the heart working harder during the respiratory arrest that Michael had had,
during the 2 min CM was in the bathroom.

 

[octobermoon]

I believe when organs shut down in death the heart is the last. After an airway tube is shut down the heart will beat for a little while. In a healthy heart. In heart disease it might be different.

That makes sense. Husband had a healthy heart, hospice said it was the last to give in.

Sorry for the off topic folks

 

[MsBashterd]

:crush:Ok Bash is treking home now be right back

oh and..
Talina You ROCK :crush: I :heartbeat:you:heartluv:bigtime!!!!

 

[peace9274]

:waitasec:I am not a chemist but wouldnt 122 beat per minute cause rapid pulse?

122 beats per minute IS rapid pulse.

The heart knows something is wrong & is working harder to try to fix it.
In this case, it was MJ not breathing, thus not getting 02 into his system... and to his heart.

 

[borndem]

Sentence of this witness: pulseless by definition means no pulse.

See -- that's one of the advantages of med school vs. law school.

(Please know that I am not trying to run down our good attorneys out there.)

 

[peace9274]

Is it snack time?

 

[CA Lady]

Do we know if the term "standard of care" is a defined and a tested legal term in CA criminal law??