Conrad Murray trial -Day four.

[Thundar]

No way . We heard the call yesterday. It was not 4 minutes long ws it? Did we hear him hang up?

The link to 911 transcript is in the photo and evidence links thread.

You know, I'm not sure if they played the end of the call or not. I am at work and there have been people in and out all day during this trial (gotta talk to the customers) so I have probably missed some of it. I haven't gone back and listened to the days testimony at night in full like the last trial I followed so I might have missed parts of it.

(I own the business so no one else is paying me while I watch online)

 

[Amity]

Emts were with MJ for 42 minutes from arrival to hand off at the hospital. MJs eyes were fixed, his skin was blue, and no heart or pulse for the entire time. I think MJ was dead for awhile before 911 was called. My opinion only.

Above bolded by me

Not only were MJ's eyes fixed but the paramedic testified that MJ's eyes were dry.
Does anyone know how long it takes for eyes to dry that they'd be noticeable at first glance by trained medical?

Also: It's is still not stated on witness stand that paramedic noticed a plastic bag and tubing coming from MJ's penis.

Security testified one of the first things he noticed was the Penis Cath and yet it was nowhere in site when the first paramedic arrived on scene?
Something else hidden?....nefarious reasons?

Not being a trained medical person, even I would surely notice a plastic bag with tubing attached to someone's penis but paramedic said MJ was in pajama bottom?
Did someone remove Penis Cath and put MJ's pajama bottoms on him, all the while MJ was already dead?
Whether that's against the law or not, that shows total lack of scruples, moral judgment.

 

[weedemout]

Why he didnt clean up an not say anything to anyone and just leave is what I dont get.
He could have walked out at whatever wanted and then acted clueless.

But suicide isnt covered is it?

I wondered this too and came to the conclusion that mj must have been very close to death when the dr first found him. So of course, he tended to him, while calling out for help mj died, by then he had already alerted people.

 

[mck16]

Above bolded by me

Not only were MJ's eyes fixed but the paramedic testified that MJ's eyes were dry.
Does anyone know how long it takes for eyes to dry that they'd be noticeable at first glance by trained medical?

Also: It's is still not stated on witness stand that paramedic noticed a plastic bag and tubing coming from MJ's penis.

Security testified one of the first things he noticed was the Penis Cath and yet it was nowhere in site when the first paramedic arrived on scene?
Something else hidden?....nefarious reasons?

Not being a trained medical person, even I would surely notice a plastic bag with tubing attached to someone's penis but paramedic said MJ was in pajama bottom?
Did someone remove Penis Cath and put MJ's pajama bottoms on him, all the while MJ was already dead?
Whether that's against the law or not, that shows total lack of scruples, moral judgment.

You can have a urinary catheter and still wear pajama bottoms. And I didn't hear the emt testify to the fact that there was no catheter. I was wondering that myself but thought I might have missed that testimony. jmo

 

[luckyme]

Above bolded by me

Not only were MJ's eyes fixed but the paramedic testified that MJ's eyes were dry.
Does anyone know how long it takes for eyes to dry that they'd be noticeable at first glance by trained medical?

Also: It's is still not stated on witness stand that paramedic noticed a plastic bag and tubing coming from MJ's penis.

Security testified one of the first things he noticed was the Penis Cath and yet it was nowhere in site when the first paramedic arrived on scene?
Something else hidden?....nefarious reasons?

Not being a trained medical person, even I would surely notice a plastic bag with tubing attached to someone's penis but paramedic said MJ was in pajama bottom?
Did someone remove Penis Cath and put MJ's pajama bottoms on him, all the while MJ was already dead?
Whether that's against the law or not, that shows total lack of scruples, moral judgment.

I think that the dr knew michael was to far gone. They probally did put pants on him. Can u imagine if someone would have gotten a picture like that. Usually when eyes are affixed they are gone. The emt said he was cool to the touch also. moo

 

[Talina]

No way . We heard the call yesterday. It was not 4 minutes long ws it? Did we hear him hang up?

The link to 911 transcript is in the photo and evidence links thread.

The recording appears to be 2 min and 32 seconds. It was during the call that the 911 operator told them to get him off the bed and put him on the floor. Alvarez would not have been able to assist with that and hold a phone at the same time. I believe they moved him on to the floor after they hung up the phone with 911. This could be what is going on when the EMT walked into the room. This does not, however, explain Alvarez saying that he was doing chest compressions while Dr. Murray was doing mouth to mouth while MJ was on the floor. Still doesn't add up, IMO.

Now...while this is definitely curious and does need to be explained...
we are still left with drugs being hidden away in a bag and stashed away in a closet where they were found by detectives.

We are still left with the EMT going back to the room and seeing Dr. Murray putting vials, etc into a bag off of the nightstand and floor.

We are still left with the ridiculous amount of drugs in MJ's system per the toxicology report that includes much more propofol than Dr. Murray admitted having given to MJ.

We are still left with the lack of truthfulness from Dr. Murray to EMT regarding what medications he had given to MJ. (later admitted to by Dr. Murray to police)

We are still left with phone records showing Dr.Murray being on his cell phone at very critical times when he should have been monitoring his patient.

We are still left with Dr. Murray wanting to be taken back to MJs house to remove "cream".

We are still left with Dr.Murray using propofol in a setting where it is not intended for use and without any of the medical equipment that he should have had on hand while it is being administered.

Let's assume for a moment that we don't even have Alvarez testimony and therefore, no contradictions to ponder over right now. Would Dr. Murray still be on trial? I do believe so.

 

[Thundar]

But, Alvarez implied or maybe the state implied that Murray told him to get the vials before the emts arrived as if he was trying to hide them. If Murray was picking up while they were carrying MJ downstairs he clearly had not picked them up before the emts arrived. The emt said he saw bottles on the table. And I agree with whoever said that this is very confusing.

I am working and listening to the trial at the same time, and I clearly picked up on that as well as the tubing in the leg. Also did the emt say anything about the catheter for urine? I just hope the jury is paying close attention and taking notes. tia

I believe the defense asked the EMT about the penis catheter and he replied that no he did not see one.

 

[Soulmagent]

You know, I'm not sure if they played the end of the call or not. I am at work and there have been people in and out all day during this trial (gotta talk to the customers) so I have probably missed some of it. I haven't gone back and listened to the days testimony at night in full like the last trial I followed so I might have missed parts of it.

(I own the business so no one else is paying me while I watch online)

I know I have missed stuff. I am not killing my bladder or going hungry or broke for Conrad Murray!


I did listen to the call and I seem to remember it ending ,I just dont know how it ended, but it was after he said they moved him to the floor while he was on the phone.

 

[weedemout]

I still don't understand about the iv bag and the tear and the bottle inside. What does this prove? :waitasec:

 

[Soulmagent]

WHAT! A gag order!

 

[mck16]

The recording appears to be 2 min and 32 seconds. It was during the call that the 911 operator told them to get him off the bed and put him on the floor. Alvarez would not have been able to assist with that and hold a phone at the same time. I believe they moved him on to the floor after they hung up the phone with 911. This could be what is going on when the EMT walked into the room. This does not, however, explain Alvarez saying that he was doing chest compressions while Dr. Murray was doing mouth to mouth while MJ was on the floor. Still doesn't add up, IMO.

Now...while this is definitely curious and does need to be explained...
we are still left with drugs being hidden away in a bag and stashed away in a closet where they were found by detectives. We are still left with the EMT going back to the room and seeing Dr. Murray putting vials, etc into a bag off of the nightstand and floor.

We are still left with the ridiculous amount of drugs in MJ's system per the toxicology report that includes much more propofol than Dr. Murray admitted having given to MJ.

We are still left with the lack of truthfulness from Dr. Murray to EMT regarding what medications he had given to MJ. (later admitted to by Dr. Murray to police)

We are still left with phone records showing Dr.Murray being on his cell phone at very critical times when he should have been monitoring his patient.

We are still left with Dr. Murray wanting to be taken back to MJs house to remove "cream".

We are still left with Dr.Murray using propofol in a setting where it is not intended for use and without any of the medical equipment that he should have had on hand while it is being administered.

Let's assume for a moment that we don't even have Alvarez testimony and therefore, no contradictions to ponder over right now. Would Dr. Murray still be on trial? I do believe so.

I believe I read or heard that Dr. Murray told the detectives where the bag was. Probably heard that on HLN, but not sure.

 

[Soulmagent]

What does that mean for us? No media?
Hope not!


Who is Alfred What haappen on the today show.

 

[Thundar]

I know I have missed stuff. I am not killing my bladder or going hungry or broke for Conrad Murray!


I did listern to the call and I seem to remember it endingn ,I just dont know how it ended, but it was after he said they moved him to the floor while he was on the phone.

I remember Alverez saying he put the phone between his head and shoulder to hold it while they moved MJ from the bed which would mean he as still on the phone with 911 when the EMTS came into the room. Because the EMT testified Murray and Alverez were moving MJs body when he came into the room. But if the call to 911 only lasted for 2 minutes and some seconds and it took EMTs 4 minutes to get there then that does NOT make sense.

 

[luckyme]

What does that mean for us? No media?
Hope not!


Who is Alfred What haappen on the today show.

What are u talking about?

 

[Soulmagent]

I remember Alverez saying he put the phone between his head and shoulder to hold it while they moved MJ from the bed which would mean he as still on the phone with 911 when the EMTS came into the room. Because the EMT testified Murray and Alverez were moving MJs body when he came into the room. But if the call to 911 only lasted for 2 minutes and some seconds and it took EMTs 4 minutes to get there then that does NOT make sense.

I know,neither does this gag order!

 

[Soulmagent]

Jackson Judge ordered a gag order in this case. Just now ,something happen on the today show. Alfred somebody..part of the defence team.

 

[Thundar]

I know,neither does this gag order!

Who's talking about a gag order? Don't gag orders usually only apply to witnesses and lawyers?

 

[Talina]

A partner in the firm with one of the defense attorneys went on the Today Show this morning. He was billed as being part of the defense team and talked about the case. The judge is furious.

ETA: He was also supposed to be a guest pundit on the Pierce Morgan show tonight and talking about this case on CNN. They are talking about it on HLN. I don't suppose we'll be seeing him on that show tonight as the gag order includes attorneys in the case and anyone that works with them. It's a pretty broad gag order regarding the attorneys involved in the case as well as their entire office from the sounds of it.

 

[thumbtack]

If the defense did this on purpose, re: media, can the jury become sequestered? Or will this be used for appeal, w/ the defense stating they should have been sequestered?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

But, Alvarez implied or maybe the state implied that Murray told him to get the vials before the emts arrived as if he was trying to hide them. If Murray was picking up while they were carrying MJ downstairs he clearly had not picked them up before the emts arrived. The emt said he saw bottles on the table. And I agree with whoever said that this is very confusing.

I am working and listening to the trial at the same time, and I clearly picked up on that as well as the tubing in the leg. Also did the emt say anything about the catheter for urine? I just hope the jury is paying close attention and taking notes. tia

I'm thinking Murray didn't have enough time to get all the stuff cleared away.