GUILTY Conrad Murray Trial - Verdict Watch

[EPfan]

EP, any chance these things are related to MJ's 2005 trial?

Yes, and drugs.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

According to HLN, it's a confusing situation. Someone called into the court and was told that they didn't summon her down there. Who knows? Now, the jury has finished their lunch and is deliberating again. :rollercoaster:

 

[peace9274]

I am fighting the same concern(s) that you just said. This isn't just about cut and dry guilty or not guilty, for me. I have watched too many talking heads and that leads you to guilty, but as a human being and using my common sense this case is very complicated. I just can't say that other Dr.'s haven't done the same. He was clearly a drug addict but I'm not sure that was proven in the testimony. Many people don't believe that he is a addict but I think he has been since his molestation trial.[/B][/B] I also think that is probably when he wanted to use propofal to not have to think about things because he couldn't sleep. That is just my own opinion. I also am probably one of the few but I have a problem with not knowing if CM put evidence in his pants pockets because that is only speculation and that piece of evidence wasn't among the evidence that was needed.
The procecution also stated that we will never know what happened. (In the closing arguments) That statement also bothered me because it proved that they didn't know and that could cause reasonable doubt.
I truly believe that if this wasn't Michael J, just a regular Joe this trial wouldn't be happening. JMOO

BBM

I can definitely see why there are people who believe MJ is an addict.
He admitted to being addicted to demerol and to going to a rehab & treatment in England and in CA.... yrs ago.

However, I am one of the ones who believes he was "in recovery" and not actively abusing drugs.

As a nurse who worked many years on detox & rehab units, I know what long time active addicts have in their
blood, their urine, their system, what their vital organs are like on autopsy, but mainly how functional they are.

Based on what I know and what all I've heard and seen about Michael Jackson in the yrs, months, weeks, days prior to his death...
IMO, MJ was not actively abusing drugs.

People in recovery are ALWAYS told, when they need to take meds, especially mind altering drugs/narcotics/meds...
to make sure it's someone they trust, someone that knows what they're doing, and to hold onto, administer & supervise the meds for them.

Michael did do that when he felt he needed demerol for a procedure, when he needed something for sleep,
and probably other times he needed to take medication.

MJ's autopsy report stated that he was in better health than most 50 yr old men.
It said his vital organs appeared to be in very good condition.... including his cardio vascular system.

The only time MJ was feeling "dope sick" was a week or days prior to his death.
The only time the CEO's of production observed MJ to be acting strange, was during the same time he wasn't feeling well.

During that time, MJ was under the care of a doctor, who was someone MJ trusted, someone
who should've known what he was doing, someone who was constantly observing MJ.

MJ was NOT (IMO) responsible for making sure CM had all the right equipment, that the 02 tanks were filled, that the meds were locked up...
MJ had too many other things for which to be responsible. He hired and was going to pay good money to have someone he trusted to oversee
and supervise and make sure that it all ran smoothly.

OK that's it... something's going on, I think... on HLN.... and they're showing the great seal!! Gotta see what it is.

ETA: OK, seems like it was nothing REAL important at the moment.

So I just want to add, that the trial is NOT about MJ.

It's about Dr Conrad Murray, his gross negligence, his failure to supervise and properly care for MJ as he should have, as other doctors would have.

And all the other things he did and did not do to save MJ's life.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Vinnie Politan reiterates that Katherine Jackson is on her way to downtown Los Angeles "holding area".

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks
I don't know why but I think this case is so different because I believe (know) that this case isn't as simple as it was made out to be.
Even though I think CM was wrong, I think there were many others and I guess that still doesn't excuse CM.

You are welcome.

However the case I listed IS similar.

He used his home as a clinic and he killed the man by using the improper drug and it caused the man's death.

The last I read over 200 doctors in California have been criminally charged for wrongdoing.

Conrad Murray is just one of many even though he has carved his niche of being the most inept, reckless and negligent to date.

IMO

 

[yeknomaras]

jury clock is ticking once again.

 

[tweezybird]

This is totally off topic, but Yek, I can't help but laugh every time I see that OJ/CA pic,

 

[MsFacetious]

It is possible Katherine is just going down there to ensure she is there and doesn't get caught in traffic... with bad weather too.

I just figure since there is only 3 hours left in the day... that there is a good chance this is the two hour notice...

Could be wrong.

Anywhere going to show it live online?

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/04/get-ready-deliberations-kick-friday?hpt=hp_t2

HLN's Alan Duke reports that Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine, is heading back to an area near the courthouse.

A spokesperson for the court says Jackson was not asked to come downtown.

MsF says: They also said on HLN that the a "source close to" the defense said the defense had not been told to go down either.

 

[dr dona]

haven't commented on this trial but here goes----No doctor has ever given Propofol in a home setting. I'm a Pediatrician and have to say their are big time controls on any meds used for sedation. We use to given chloral hydrate to children before CT's and other procedures. At my rural Iowa hospital I can't even order this. It has to be administered by anesthesia - ie MD or nurse anesthesist ---and the children are monitored on cardio-apnea monitors and an Ambu bag is bedside. Same thing goes with Versed for conscious sedation. Propofol is administered in the OR and the patients are intubated and monitored by an anestheiologist. CM's actions are unconscionable. As Physicians we take the Hippocratic oath and must always follow the oath FIRST DO NO HARM!!! Thats all I'm going to say!!!!!! It embarrasses me that he is a doctor!!!!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, and drugs.

I know the trial that happened way back 6 years ago is off topic but I will say this.

We all could see that MJ was taking sedatives during the trial. Like Tom Mes. said 'who wouldnt?..... it was the most devastating time of his life that he was having to endure.' I don't even take meds but I sure would if I had been accused falsely of something this horrific. I would have to take them in order to get through it all.

People have to be treated if they truly need medication whether it is for pain or anxiety. We learned that in the trial about Anna Nicole Smith trial.

In fact iirc in 2006 a law was passed in California that a doctor cant refuse to treat anyone who they believe has legitimate pain or emotional issues.

IMO

 

[peace9274]

haven't commented on this trial but here goes----No doctor has ever given Propofol in a home setting. I'm a Pediatrician and have to say their are big time controls on any meds used for sedation. We use to given chloral hydrate to children before CT's and other procedures. At my rural Iowa hospital I can't even order this. It has to be administered by anesthesia - ie MD or nurse anesthesist ---and the children are monitored on cardio-apnea monitors and an Ambu bag is bedside. Same thing goes with Versed for conscious sedation. Propofol is administered in the OR and the patients are intubated and monitored by an anestheiologist. CM's actions are unconscionable. As Physicians we take the Hippocratic oath and must always follow the oath FIRST DO NO HARM!!! Thats all I'm going to say!!!!!! It embarrasses me that he is a doctor!!!!!

BBM

:welcome5:

Your medical opinion, medical expertise and medical facts are all very much appreciated!

Thanx and welcome!

P.S. I said the same thing that you said (bolded by me)....
'cept I said: "As a nurse, I'm embarrassed that he's a medical professional."

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell suggesting that Jackson family members might simply be headed for downtown L.A. hotels so that they are close to the Courthouse when a verdict is reached.

 

[Oldsoul2]

haven't commented on this trial but here goes----No doctor has ever given Propofol in a home setting. I'm a Pediatrician and have to say their are big time controls on any meds used for sedation. We use to given chloral hydrate to children before CT's and other procedures. At my rural Iowa hospital I can't even order this. It has to be administered by anesthesia - ie MD or nurse anesthesist ---and the children are monitored on cardio-apnea monitors and an Ambu bag is bedside. Same thing goes with Versed for conscious sedation. Propofol is administered in the OR and the patients are intubated and monitored by an anestheiologist. CM's actions are unconscionable. As Physicians we take the Hippocratic oath and must always follow the oath FIRST DO NO HARM!!! Thats all I'm going to say!!!!!! It embarrasses me that he is a doctor!!!!!

I completely agree, he should never be allowed to practice medicine again IMO but having much experience with addicts I will add that if propofol is needed to go to sleep where demerol or any other sleep aid is not effective, you must be an extreme addict of many, many meds where the body becomes immune to the standard medications and needs excessive and stronger meds to do the trick. I believe MJ was a severe drug addict be it at the time of his death or before and recovering where his system was still unbalanced. The autopsy released is not necessarily the autopsy findings. Many actors, singers etc... have died this past year and the public was giving the most outrageous reasons I have ever heard while the "said" person had a true past of cocaine any other addictions. I think CM should lose his license for putting money before morals but still on the fence about jail time.

 

[EPfan]

I know the trial that happened way back 6 years ago is off topic but I will say this.

We all could see that MJ was taking sedatives during the trial. Like Tom Mes. said 'who wouldnt?..... it was the most devastating time of his life that he was having to endure.' I don't even take meds but I sure would if I had been accused falsely of something this horrific. I would have to take them in order to get through it all.

People have to be treated if they truly need medication whether it is for pain or anxiety. We learned that in the trial about Anna Nicole Smith trial.

In fact iirc in 2006 a law was passed in California that a doctor cant refuse to treat anyone who they believe has legitimate pain or emotional issues.

IMO

off subject also.
MJ wasn't completly innocent but with that being said, if you followed the evidence of the trial, I agree with the verdict. (and that's a whole other ball game)

 

[peace9274]

I won't say anthing and it would't have anything to do with this trial.(unless it would have been brought into evidence.)
The only thing I will say is most people that have worked for MJ know stuff but sign a contract that they won't disclose things.
My daughter knows someone that know things not rumor.
I was really overwhelmed but I'm glad she hadn't told me earlier.

BBM

IMO

I wouldn't trust someone who says they worked for MJ, or any celebrity, that says they signed a contract
that stated they would NOT give out personal information, and then goes ahead and divulges personal information
about the person/celebrity for whom they're working.

 

[MsFacetious]

haven't commented on this trial but here goes----No doctor has ever given Propofol in a home setting. I'm a Pediatrician and have to say their are big time controls on any meds used for sedation. We use to given chloral hydrate to children before CT's and other procedures. At my rural Iowa hospital I can't even order this. It has to be administered by anesthesia - ie MD or nurse anesthesist ---and the children are monitored on cardio-apnea monitors and an Ambu bag is bedside. Same thing goes with Versed for conscious sedation. Propofol is administered in the OR and the patients are intubated and monitored by an anestheiologist. CM's actions are unconscionable. As Physicians we take the Hippocratic oath and must always follow the oath FIRST DO NO HARM!!! Thats all I'm going to say!!!!!! It embarrasses me that he is a doctor!!!!!

Ditto, when they did outpatient procedures even before MJ, they wouldn't use Propofol even in a clinic with all medical equipment, attached to a hospital... it had to be in an actual hospital.

I loved it when they said something about what was Dr Murray supposed to do... put an alarm on MJ's bed?

Ever heard of an Oximeter?? They are even easier to learn than CPR... they are CHEAP and they have.... ALARMS on them.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Devon-Medical-MD300i-Handheld-Oximeter/dp/B001VMSHX8/ref=sr_1_141?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1320439609&sr=1-141"]Amazon.com: Handheld Pulse Oximeter MD300I: Health & Personal Care@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/314ksiPbisL.@@AMEPARAM@@314ksiPbisL[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/HandHeld-Oximeter-MD300K1-BestCare-adjustable/dp/B002TELD24/ref=sr_1_13?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1320439775&sr=1-13"]Amazon.com: HandHeld Pulse Oximeter MD300K1 by BestCare with adjustable alarm limits: Health & Personal Care@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31T7er8lEPL.@@AMEPARAM@@31T7er8lEPL[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Oximeter-Yellow-Infant-Probes/dp/B001CSPIRE/ref=sr_1_30?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1320439802&sr=1-30"]Amazon.com: PC-66 Handheld Adult Pulse Oximeter (Yellow) Combo with Child and Infant Probes - FDA Approved: Health & Personal Care@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31A%2Bcyjv14L.@@AMEPARAM@@31A%2Bcyjv14L[/ame]

 

[MsFacetious]

HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell suggesting that Jackson family members might simply be headed for downtown L.A. hotels so that they are close to the Courthouse when a verdict is reached.

That is what TMZ has been saying... that they are going to stay in a hotel until a verdict is reached.
Because with traffic and weather, it could easily take them more than two hours to get to the courthouse.
They say it's unclear if other members of the family are doing the same thing.

 

[EPfan]

IMO

I wouldn't trust someone who says they worked for MJ, or any celebrity, that says they signed a contract
that stated they would NOT give out personal information, and then goes ahead and divulges personal information
about the person/celebrity for whom they're working.

With all due respect to you. My daughter has no reason to lie to me and doesn't lie. What she has told me she knows for a fact. She wouldn't gain anything by saying what she told me. (and I should have kept my mouth shut here because people don't know you and don't want to face the truth sometimes) She loves MJ but she also doesn't believe in fairy tales and is a person who faces facts and truth and doesn't sugar coat anything. (thank goodness).
Something things aren't what they appear to be.

 

[KEVINinTO]

I think the fact that the Jurors chose to have a shorter lunch according to KTLA (1 hour instead of the standard 1 1/2 hours) says to me that they are looking to wrap this up today. Normally they would work until 5:00 PM (although could work overtime). Given that 2 hours notice is required I am predicating they will announce that they have reached a verdict sometime in the next hour.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
We are back in the courtroom. Jurors asked to take only 1 hour lunch today from 12p-1p. They wanted to go back to work at 1p, so they did.

 

[peace9274]

From the TMZ's livestream:

(Link: http://www.tmz.com )

(the screen shows the seal)

Below it, there's a box, with a guilty or not guilty poll.

Results: 50,910 votes
Guilty - 71%
Not Guilty -29%


"The moment of truth -- after a grueling six-week manslaughter trial, jurors in the Dr. Conrad Murray case are currently deliberating.


It could be two hours ... it could be two weeks -- but we'll be covering it LIVE from start to finish in case anything happens.

STAY TUNED.


1:22 PM: The jury is now back from lunch and deliberations have resumed.

12:40 PM: La Toya Jackson just tweeted, "I'm so shaky right now waiting for a verdict! Every little noise has me jumping out of my skin!"

Minutes later, she added, "JUSTICE HAS TO BE SERVED ON MURRAY AND THEN WE MUST GO AFTER THE OTHER CONSPIRES! (sic)"