Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #108

[anneg]

Maybe you can explain this to me, the other day Nancy Pelosi tested positive for Covid. She had been in close contact with President Biden, for longer than 15 minutes. But the CDC says that she is NOT considered a "contact"?

Do they just keep moving the goal posts on Covid? Or is it because President Biden has been vaccinated? But so has Nancy Pelosi.

Nancy Pelosi tests positive for Covid but is asymptomatic
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/nancy-pelosi-tests-positive-covid-asymptomatic-rcna23417

Excerpts:
The White House said Thursday that Biden "is not considered a close contact" of Pelosi's, according to guidelines of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"The president saw Speaker Pelosi at White House events and had brief interactions over the course of the last two days," the White House said in a statement. "Last night as a part of his regular testing cadence, the president tested negative. He will continue to be tested regularly. The president wishes Speaker Pelosi a speedy recovery."

The White House has been following the CDC's guideline people who are within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes are close contacts....

...Biden, who had a second Covid booster shot last week, has been attending large gatherings indoors without masks for several weeks, often embracing other attendees. He gave Pelosi a hug and a kiss on the cheek at an event Tuesday at the White House.

 

[Lilibet]

Maybe you can explain this to me, the other day Nancy Pelosi tested positive for Covid. She had been in close contact with President Biden, for longer than 15 minutes. But the CDC says that she is NOT considered a "contact"?

Do they just keep moving the goal posts on Covid? Or is it because President Biden has been vaccinated? But so has Nancy Pelosi.

Per Google, the goal posts are as follows:

Was the person less than 6 feet away from someone with confirmed or suspected COVID-19? Consider time spent with someone with COVID-19 starting 2 days before the infected person developed symptoms, or the date they were tested if they do not have symptoms, until they started isolation.

Has the person been in the presence of someone with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 for a cumulative total of 15 minutes or more over a 24-hour period?

If the answers to the questions above are both yes, the person is a close contact, regardless of whether the person was wearing a mask properly.

If the answer to either of the questions above is no, the person is not a close contact.

COVID-19 and Your Health

 

[Sundog]

Speaking about the recent Gridiron Club event, CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Wen called it a super-spreader event and stated that these events should continue to be held, with people assessing their own risks. Not everyone was happy with her remarks.

COVID-cautious freak out at CNN medical analyst for urging large events to ‘still go on’

CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen said Thursday in a Washington Post column and corresponding Twitter thread that "our new normal" regarding COVID-19 should involve allowing individuals to assess their "own risks" and no longer canceling potential "superspreader" events.

<snip>

In a Twitter thread paired with the piece, Wen stated, "The Gridiron Club dinner was probably a #covid19 superspreader. But events like this should still go on. This is our new normal — one that’s based on individuals being thoughtful about their own risks and the risks they pose to others."

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe you can explain this to me, the other day Nancy Pelosi tested positive for Covid. She had been in close contact with President Biden, for longer than 15 minutes. But the CDC says that she is NOT considered a "contact"?

Do they just keep moving the goal posts on Covid? Or is it because President Biden has been vaccinated? But so has Nancy Pelosi.

In my state (and other states here), if you do not live with a covid positive person you are not considered a close contact unless you have been with a covid positive person for a cummulative 4 hours (unmasked and indoors).

It is used to be 15 mins with Delta, but with Omicron it is 4 hours.


If you have been exposed to COVID-19, but do not meet the definition of a close contact, it is recommended that you use a rapid antigen test on day 1 and day 6 after exposure.
If you have any COVID-19 symptoms, no matter how mild, get a PCR test as soon as possible.
Close contact advice | SA Health

 

[beatrixpotter]

In my state (and other states here), if you do not live with a covid positive person you are not considered a close contact unless you have been with a covid positive person for a cummulative 4 hours (unmasked and indoors).

It is used to be 15 mins with Delta, but with Omicron it is 4 hours.


If you have been exposed to COVID-19, but do not meet the definition of a close contact, it is recommended that you use a rapid antigen test on day 1 and day 6 after exposure.
If you have any COVID-19 symptoms, no matter how mild, get a PCR test as soon as possible.
Close contact advice | SA Health

Wow. So there is clearly no scientific basis for that one. Also weird to test on day 1 and day 6. I mean someone is already not likely to test positive on day 1, why wait 5 days? I don't really expect an answer to that.

I've come to accept that no one actually cares if we spread covid anymore. We just better hope we live and aren't disabled from it. And we are otherwise on our own.

 

[beatrixpotter]

Just some random covid related info: I was recently researching something with DNA and decided to search my secretor status in conjunction with covid. It seems Type A secretors are at higher risk of cardiovascular complications from covid. Awesome. I already have cardiovascular crap going on. I pretty much already knew from my history of hypertension from preeclampsia and family history of heart disease I'd be higher risk. But I actually searched my specific genes out to determine my secretor status and then searched what we knew in relation to covid. Now I'm curious about other genes.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jha2.180

 

[SouthAussie]

Wow. So there is clearly no scientific basis for that one. Also weird to test on day 1 and day 6. I mean someone is already not likely to test positive on day 1, why wait 5 days? I don't really expect an answer to that.

I've come to accept that no one actually cares if we spread covid anymore. We just better hope we live and aren't disabled from it. And we are otherwise on our own.

There are a few answers, I think.

Testing on Day One is to see if they are asymptomatic covid positive.
Testing on Day Six is to see if they are now newly infected, having been in the presence of a covid positive person.

I think the '4 hours' comes from the weaker virulency of Omicron.
The 4 hours also comes from the need to keep the country (workers) running without the crippling absences of thousands of work close contacts. If they mask up at work they will never be classified as a close contact in an indoor work environment.

Yes, it is now being treated as endemic here.


The general public seems to be moving along okay, in the current scenario.
Our high vax rates seem to have eliminated/greatly reduced the fear of covid death.
Aussies are travelling again, internationally.
There is a backlog at the Passport Office as so many people are getting their passports renewed after a 2 year hiatus on travel. They say 6 weeks now to get your passport renewed, as opposed to the usual 3 weeks.

 

[weepingangel]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-anime-convention-nyc-coronavirus-lessons-masks-tests
HEALTH & MEDICINE
What we learned about COVID-19 safety from a NYC anime convention
Masks, vaccine requirements and more kept most fans free of diseases that can spread

 

[acutename]

Maybe you can explain this to me, the other day Nancy Pelosi tested positive for Covid. She had been in close contact with President Biden, for longer than 15 minutes. But the CDC says that she is NOT considered a "contact"?

Do they just keep moving the goal posts on Covid? Or is it because President Biden has been vaccinated? But so has Nancy Pelosi.

did an article say that she was close to Biden for a particular amount of time?
(I am also assuming that the prominent folks who get tested daily get an appropriate anti-viral or other treatment right away which everyone else probably does not get)

 

[anneg]

In my state (and other states here), if you do not live with a covid positive person you are not considered a close contact unless you have been with a covid positive person for a cummulative 4 hours (unmasked and indoors).

It is used to be 15 mins with Delta, but with Omicron it is 4 hours.


If you have been exposed to COVID-19, but do not meet the definition of a close contact, it is recommended that you use a rapid antigen test on day 1 and day 6 after exposure.
If you have any COVID-19 symptoms, no matter how mild, get a PCR test as soon as possible.
Close contact advice | SA Health

There are a few answers, I think.

Testing on Day One is to see if they are asymptomatic covid positive.
Testing on Day Six is to see if they are now newly infected, having been in the presence of a covid positive person.

I think the '4 hours' comes from the weaker virulency of Omicron.
The 4 hours also comes from the need to keep the country (workers) running without the crippling absences of thousands of work close contacts. If they mask up at work they will never be classified as a close contact in an indoor work environment.

Yes, it is now being treated as endemic here.


The general public seems to be moving along okay, in the current scenario.
Our high vax rates seem to have eliminated/greatly reduced the fear of covid death.
Aussies are travelling again, internationally.
There is a backlog at the Passport Office as so many people are getting their passports renewed after a 2 year hiatus on travel. They say 6 weeks now to get your passport renewed, as opposed to the usual 3 weeks.

Thanks for your further comments. I was thinking that since the Omicron variant is more transmissible than previous variants, one would need much less than 4 hours of close contact to catch/spread the Omicron variant.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks for your further comments. I was thinking that since the Omicron variant is more transmissible than previous variants, one would need much less than 4 hours of close contact to catch/spread the Omicron variant.

I think they are only concerned about the spread as far as hospital manageablility goes. And as far as the death rate is concerned. So some measures have been kept in place - such as masks in certain places (like medical facilities), and vax requirement for attendance at large events.

Omicron seems to have less severe outcomes, overall.
And a 'managed' spread helps achieve herd immunity.

We seem to be at what is thought to be an 'acceptable' death rate. Perhaps it is comparable to the death rate of flu (I haven't looked, but it seems relatively low at .16% of infected cases).

I think the vaccines have been doing (here) what they are designed to do, so far anyway. Greatly reduce the deaths and serious illness.

Hopefully, any new variant won't change things too much - and we'll be able to continue to manage a normal life while living with covid.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Thanks for your further comments. I was thinking that since the Omicron variant is more transmissible than previous variants, one would need much less than 4 hours of close contact to catch/spread the Omicron variant.

It only makes sense imo

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks for your further comments. I was thinking that since the Omicron variant is more transmissible than previous variants, one would need much less than 4 hours of close contact to catch/spread the Omicron variant.

Per my post #422, the CDC currently says 15 cumulative minutes or more over a 24 hour period plus six feet or less away and a person is considered a close contact. So it sounds as if they are considering Omicron being more transmissible. I’m not sure why Australia is 4 hours, if I’m understanding correctly. Always a possibility I’m not.

 

[SouthAussie]

Per my post #422, the CDC currently says 15 cumulative minutes or more over a 24 hour period plus six feet or less away and a person is considered a close contact. So it sounds as if they are considering Omicron being more transmissible. I’m not sure why Australia is 4 hours, if I’m understanding correctly. Always a possibility I’m not.

You are understanding correctly. I haven't explained very well, I think I have mostly said how it doesn't seem to have adversely affected us.
What is working here likely wouldn't work everywhere. We all know that Aussies run things in an uncommon way with regard to covid.

The four hours (here) has little to do with how quickly the virus transmits. Probably more to do with viral load, I would guess.


30 Dec 2021
A close contact is now a person who spent four hours or more with a confirmed case in a household or ‘household-like’ setting.

With Australia recording tens of thousands of daily COVID cases and the country’s testing system stretched to its limits, most states and territories have agreed to a national definition of a close contact.

Close contacts will now be classified as someone who has spent four hours or more with a confirmed case in a household or household-like setting.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who said the move is a ‘practical’ one designed to ease increasing pressure on the country’s straining COVID testing systems, outlined the new definition following a national cabinet meeting on Thursday 30 December.

newsGP - What is the new national definition of a COVID close contact?

 

[weepingangel]

Covid Updates: At Least 53 People Test Positive After A-List Dinner in Washington
At least 53 people have tested positive for the coronavirus since attending The Gridiron Club and Foundation’s annual dinner last Saturday in Washington, the group’s president confirmed on Friday.

The Gridiron Club dinner, an annual white-tie roast between journalists and presidential administrations, was held at the Renaissance Hotel. But a night of good-natured ribbing has devolved into an outbreak of cases among Washington’s elite, including members of Congress, members of the president’s cabinet and journalists.

About 700 people were at the event, including the 628 guests seated in the ballroom, Gridiron organizers said. Attendees were required to show proof of vaccination but not a negative test result, and face masks were not required during the program.

Two Biden Cabinet members among string of positive Covid-19 cases after elite Gridiron dinner - CNNPolitics
The string of positive cases has turned attention in Washington to the Gridiron dinner, an event that brings together some of the city's most prominent journalists, including from CNN, and the government officials they cover.

Attendees had their vaccination status checked, but negative Covid-19 tests were not required to enter.
Tom DeFrank, the president of the Gridiron Club, said 14 guests at Saturday's dinner have tested positive and that other cases could be expected.


"As of 4 p.m. Wednesday, we know of 14 guests at Saturday's dinner who have tested positive for Covid. There is no way of being certain about when they first contracted Covid," DeFrank said.
"But they did interact with other guests during the night and we have to be realistic and expect some more cases," he continued.

"Except in cases of public officials who have on their own disclosed their status, we will protect the privacy of guests who test positive."

 

[anneg]

Covid Updates: At Least 53 People Test Positive After A-List Dinner in Washington
At least 53 people have tested positive for the coronavirus since attending The Gridiron Club and Foundation’s annual dinner last Saturday in Washington, the group’s president confirmed on Friday.

The Gridiron Club dinner, an annual white-tie roast between journalists and presidential administrations, was held at the Renaissance Hotel. But a night of good-natured ribbing has devolved into an outbreak of cases among Washington’s elite, including members of Congress, members of the president’s cabinet and journalists.

About 700 people were at the event, including the 628 guests seated in the ballroom, Gridiron organizers said. Attendees were required to show proof of vaccination but not a negative test result, and face masks were not required during the program.

This article addresses the CDC's outdated definition of "close contact" and includes comments from experts.
Washington Covid-19 outbreak: New variants flout old 'close contact' rule - CNN

Excerpt:
...Health experts said Friday that Americans are relying on CDC guidance that's overdue for an update.

Origins of the 6-foot rule
Since the early days of the pandemic, the CDC has defined someone who's a "close contact" -- and is therefore at risk of contracting and spreading the virus -- as someone who has spent a cumulative total of at least 15 minutes within 6 feet of another person who has lab-confirmed Covid-19 or who's been told they have Covid-19 by a doctor.

With newer, more contagious variants such as BA.2 on the loose, Kimberly Prather, an aerosol scientist at the Scripps Institute of Oceanography, said the rule needs rethinking.

"Fifteen minutes and 6 feet was not really useful in the first place," she said. "We know people get infected in less time and longer distanced."
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...om/2022/04/06/health/where-is-ba-2/index.html
Prather thinks the rule for close contact should have been based on anyone sharing the air in a room for a certain number of minutes....

 

[Sundog]

This article addresses the CDC's outdated definition of "close contact" and includes comments from experts.
Washington Covid-19 outbreak: New variants flout old 'close contact' rule - CNN

Excerpt:
...Health experts said Friday that Americans are relying on CDC guidance that's overdue for an update.

Origins of the 6-foot rule
Since the early days of the pandemic, the CDC has defined someone who's a "close contact" -- and is therefore at risk of contracting and spreading the virus -- as someone who has spent a cumulative total of at least 15 minutes within 6 feet of another person who has lab-confirmed Covid-19 or who's been told they have Covid-19 by a doctor.

With newer, more contagious variants such as BA.2 on the loose, Kimberly Prather, an aerosol scientist at the Scripps Institute of Oceanography, said the rule needs rethinking.

"Fifteen minutes and 6 feet was not really useful in the first place," she said. "We know people get infected in less time and longer distanced."
Prather thinks the rule for close contact should have been based on anyone sharing the air in a room for a certain number of minutes....

"It's based more on convenience than on science at this point," she said.
Marr said that all superspreading events have four things in common: lots of talking, shouting or singing; long exposure times; poor ventilation; and no masks.

"If you have that type of situation, then I would say everyone in the room is potentially exposed," she said.

 

[mickey2942]

@SouthAussie here in the United States, getting a renewal on a passport is running about four months. I sent my paperwork in end of December, 2021, before the $20 increase in passports here.

I got mine about two weeks ago.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Maybe you can explain this to me, the other day Nancy Pelosi tested positive for Covid. She had been in close contact with President Biden, for longer than 15 minutes. But the CDC says that she is NOT considered a "contact"?

Do they just keep moving the goal posts on Covid? Or is it because President Biden has been vaccinated? But so has Nancy Pelosi.

I wish I could answer your question buy honestly I have no idea. Perhaps someone else here knows?
My understanding is that because Pelosi is the one with Covid, Biden would be the one who is considered a "contact".
I found this:
"Biden, who tested negative on Wednesday night, isn't considered a close contact "as defined by the CDC," according to a White House statement. White House press secretary Jen Psaki said it wasn't considered close contact because they weren't within six feet of each other for 15 minutes"
Nancy Pelosi tests positive for COVID-19; Biden not considered close contact, White House says

 

[jjenny]

Thanks for your further comments. I was thinking that since the Omicron variant is more transmissible than previous variants, one would need much less than 4 hours of close contact to catch/spread the Omicron variant.

With Omicron the infection can happen within seconds of being exposed, as far as I can tell. It's highly infectious.