Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #112

[Gemmie]

We've been offered both flu and Covid boosters at the same time for the past two years. We also prefer to get the flu shot one day and return for the Covid injection a couple of weeks later. The combination injection is probably more convenient for those who have to drive some distance to get their annual flu and/or Covid shots.

It's more than convenience in my eyes.

Moderna says its combination COVID and flu vaccine tested better than separate shots​

Moderna announced Monday that its combination COVID and flu vaccine showed positive results in a late-stage trial.

The Cambridge, Massachusetts-based biotech company said the mRNA-1083 vaccine produced a higher immune response in older adults than the separate shots that were co-administered in the study.

Full article here: Moderna says its combination COVID and flu vaccine tested better than separate shots

ETA - This combo shot won't be available until the fall of 2025, so a year out.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

It's more than convenience in my eyes.

Moderna says its combination COVID and flu vaccine tested better than separate shots​

Moderna announced Monday that its combination COVID and flu vaccine showed positive results in a late-stage trial.

The Cambridge, Massachusetts-based biotech company said the mRNA-1083 vaccine produced a higher immune response in older adults than the separate shots that were co-administered in the study.

Full article here: Moderna says its combination COVID and flu vaccine tested better than separate shots

I feel a little apprehensive about this combo shot, because not only have I had side effects (normal, but still unpleasant -- fever and aches for a day or two) from the Moderna vax (as opposed to no reaction to Pfizer so have been opting for those when possible), but for the past two years I have also had mild but similar reactions to the flu shot!

But if they do work better together, and if offered in my area, I will take the combined shot, making sure I have nothing but resting planned for the few days following.

 

[Gemmie]

Experts urge people to mask up as Southern California sees COVID-19 surge

This new variant, KP.3.1.1, is causing a surge in infections, including among those who have previously avoided the virus.

www.mercurynews.com

A few things stood out to me from the article you posted:

We are also seeing more of the so-called ‘Novids’ or those who’ve never had COVID getting it now.”

The surge is affecting people across all ages, although most do not require hospitalization, Hudson said. Those who are hospitalized tend to be older and more likely to have compromised immune systems, she added.

Experts attribute the rise to the variant’s increased transmissibility and its abilities to evade some immune defenses, combined with a general decline in immunity within the population.

 

[Gemmie]

I feel a little apprehensive about this combo shot, because not only have I had side effects (normal, but still unpleasant -- fever and aches for a day or two) from the Moderna vax (as opposed to no reaction to Pfizer so have been opting for those when possible), but for the past two years I have also had mild but similar reactions to the flu shot!

But if they do work better together, and if offered in my area, I will take the combined shot, making sure I have nothing but resting planned for the few days following.

I think that it won't be 2X the side effects (so not twice as bad for the combo shot). But, if you get them separately, like weeks apart, then you're dealing with the side effects twice. Here's what Moderna said about that:

Moderna also said the combination was found to be safe and tolerable in the latest study, and that rates of adverse side effects were similar to those of the other vaccines used in the trial. The most common side effects were injection site pain, fatigue, muscle aches and headache, Moderna said.

Moderna says its combination Covid and flu vaccine works well in late-stage trial

The drugmaker hopes to launch the shot for the fall respiratory disease season in 2025.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Looks like Covid is alive and well on cruise ships. We cancelled our January 2024 cruise for several reasons, fear of Covid among them. We haven't been away from home since January/February 2023 and will not cancel our January 2025 cruise. We'll get our flu and Covid shots in the fall and avoid places where there are crowds. Due to my asthma, I've always donned a mask when flying, and we avoid crowded venues onboard the ship. We request private seating in the dining room, rarely go to theatre performances, and stay away from crowded lounges or other entertainment venues. We absolutely never go to the buffet, don't sit in hot tubs, and use the adults only pool that isn't ever crowded. We've taken many cruises and haven't gotten sick. In cabin with covid

 

[OnlyS]

Hi all, I have had Covid a few times now and I wanted to ask whether anyone else has experienced Vertigo a few weeks after having Covid. I seem to have had Vertigo after the last couple of times I have had Covid and wondered whether anyone had any tips if they have had it as a result of Covid. And to get an idea of whether it was a common side effect.

 

[Gemmie]

Hi all, I have had Covid a few times now and I wanted to ask whether anyone else has experienced Vertigo a few weeks after having Covid. I seem to have had Vertigo after the last couple of times I have had Covid and wondered whether anyone had any tips if they have had it as a result of Covid. And to get an idea of whether it was a common side effect.

Appears to be so.

COVID-19 illness can cause dizziness. Up to 1 in 5 people experience COVID-related dizziness when they're sick. COVID can also cause vertigo and trigger postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS). COVID dizziness can take weeks to months to fully resolve. SOURCE
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Dizziness is a neurological symptom of COVID-19 that occurs as an early or initial symptom of the disease. It sometimes occurs with vertigo, a feeling your surroundings are spinning. Both dizziness and vertigo can present in people with long COVID.

COVID-19 leads to dizziness for different reasons, including the effects of inflammatory processes, nervous system problems related to COVID-19, and worsening of underlying medical conditions. SOURCE

Researchers are still trying to determine the exact number of people who experience dizziness with COVID-19. While there are limited studies, evidence suggests that dizziness and vertigo are neurological symptoms of COVID-19.1
======================================================================================
Vertigo could be a possible complication or a presenting symptom in patients with COVID patients that is mainly attributed to peripheral vestibular dysfunction.

Source for how they came to the above conclusion: Could vertigo be a post-COVID-19 sequela or presenting symptom?

 

[OnlyS]

Thanks @Gemmie. It’s weird as I had nothing during the bouts of Covid, just a couple of weeks after. I thought with a group as diverse as this there may be others too

 

[Gemmie]

Thanks @Gemmie. It’s weird as I had nothing during the bouts of Covid, just a couple of weeks after. I thought with a group as diverse as this there may be others too

You're welcome. Not sure if you read the medical article in the last link above. Although it had a pretty small participant group, it did look into whether vertigo was a presenting symptom or a sequela (a complication or condition following a prior illness or disease). Seems their small study group lead them to believe it is.

Results​

it was included 44 participants, where 7 (15.9%) of the participants were post-COVID-19 patients and 37 (84.1%) were close contacts of COVID patients. It was found that 6(85.7%) of post-COVID-19 patients had vestibular neuritis (VN), and 1(14.3%) patient had Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV). 9(23%) of those in close contact had positive PCR for COVID infection, 6(66.7%) of them had VN, and the other 3 (33.3%) had BPPV.

Here's the article again to keep things together: Could vertigo be a post-COVID-19 sequela or presenting symptom?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Hi all, I have had Covid a few times now and I wanted to ask whether anyone else has experienced Vertigo a few weeks after having Covid. I seem to have had Vertigo after the last couple of times I have had Covid and wondered whether anyone had any tips if they have had it as a result of Covid. And to get an idea of whether it was a common side effect.

Sorry to hear about yet another side effect of Covid. Haven't had it and hope I never do. What symptoms - among many that are possible - did you have and how long did they last? I've experienced occasional dizziness and have fainted a few times in my life, but I didn't realize how serious and debilitating vertigo can be.

Vertigo: Regaining Your Balance

If you feel yourself spinning even when you’re not moving, you might have vertigo.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Thanks @Gemmie and @OnlyS -- I have a friend who is having some of these issues, among others (some from pre-COVID but some more recent). She has had COVID at least once but doesn't take precautions so who knows how many times she has actually had it. I'll send her that article and hope she shows her doctors -- she's been being treated for BPPV and has had mixed results. I'll encourage her to ask the docs about vestibular neuritis since that seems to be more common in that study.

 

[Gemmie]

Thanks @Gemmie and @OnlyS -- I have a friend who is having some of these issues, among others (some from pre-COVID but some more recent). She has had COVID at least once but doesn't take precautions so who knows how many times she has actually had it. I'll send her that article and hope she shows her doctors -- she's been being treated for BPPV and has had mixed results. I'll encourage her to ask the docs about vestibular neuritis since that seems to be more common in that study.

I would love to hear what her doctor thinks about that. Hopefully they are one of the ones that believe in things like long-Covid, because if they are a disbeliever of that, they might not take her symptoms potentially being vestibular neuritis as a possibility. They need to be open minded, not all are, unfortunately.

Also, since you are very versed in all things Covid... I'm sure you've told her what her chances of having asymptomatic covid might be for her so she'll at least realize what her chances are of having had multiple cases of it.

 

[Gemmie]

I ran across an interesting article about a clever approach to guesstimating how many people have/had asymptomatic covid since if you think about it... unless 100% of the population of the world is tested (impossible), there's no way to know. And especially with all the people that say "oh, it's cold/allergies/flu bug/etc." and don't even consider covid so don't test.

They looked at how many people who had a previous COVID-19 infection actually knew that they had one. First, they identified which people had a previous COVID-19 infection by looking at their COVID-19 antibodies. <snip> anti-N antibodies only come from previous COVID-19 infection. Therefore, the researchers could tell that anyone who has anti-N antibodies had a previous COVID-19 infection.

After identifying all the study participants who had a COVID-19 infection, the researchers then asked them if they ever had COVID-19 before. Even though all of these people actually had COVID-19, 44% of them said that they never had it. This suggests that these people, who had COVID-19 but believe that they didn’t, probably did not have symptoms.

this study suggests that as many as 2 out of every 5 people who get COVID-19 will not show symptoms.

How Common are Asymptomatic COVID-19 Infections

www.bridgeportct.gov

As the article states, more studies of this nature should be conducted to get a clearer picture. Also, note that it was conducted between 8/21 - 5/22 so what I don't know if whether or not the more recent, more contagious, and stealthier variants would make the percentage higher or not.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I would love to hear what her doctor thinks about that. Hopefully they are one of the ones that believe in things like long-Covid, because if they are a disbeliever of that, they might not take her symptoms potentially being vestibular neuritis as a possibility. They need to be open minded, not all are, unfortunately.

Also, since you are very versed in all things Covid... I'm sure you've told her what her chances of having asymptomatic covid might be for her so she'll at least realize what her chances are of having had multiple cases of it.

I've definitely mentioned asymptomatic covid, but this is a community of largely deniers to varying extents. I also post a lot about covid on my fb page and we are fb friends but I am skeptical she reads things carefully.

She has to travel by air several times each year for medical treatment and to see her family, and the most recent time she arrived home "someone on the plane gave her a cold". I suggested to her there was a very good chance it was actually covid but again I doubt she took me seriously. (I had used the excuse of measles having appeared recently in the area she was flying to, to suggest *before* the trip that she at least mask on the plane, but again I don't expect she did.) I also don't think she noticed that I managed to avoid running into her in person for at least two weeks after she arrived back home with her "cold".

anti-N antibodies only come from previous COVID-19 infection.

I had the impression from way back that antibodies from covid vaccines couldn't be distinguished from antibodies from a covid infection. Is that incorrect? I hope so, because I would really like to know whether I've ever had it.

I'm 62 and starting to have a longer list of health issues, though thankfully most are still minor. But some of my issues are things that seem to be on the list of long covid symptoms. Of course, that list is very long and covid is clearly not the only source of these problems! But still I would really love to know with certainty whether I am a "novid" or not. I'd even get myself tested every couple of years just to know it's still true...

 

[Gemmie]

She has to travel by air several times each year for medical treatment and to see her family, and the most recent time she arrived home "someone on the plane gave her a cold". I suggested to her there was a very good chance it was actually covid but again I doubt she took me seriously.

It figures. I actually can't wrap my head around all the people that FAIL to even consider that their "cold/allergy/flu bug/etc." might actually be Covid!!! And even refuse to believe it if you bring it up. It's like... the pandemic was so unpleasant people want to put it far into the rearview mirror and refuse to even think about it. That's not helping us believers. Due to people's behavior regarding Covid, I don't think it's ever going to go away, unfortunately.

(I had used the excuse of measles having appeared recently in the area she was flying to, to suggest *before* the trip that she at least mask on the plane, but again I don't expect she did.) I also don't think she noticed that I managed to avoid running into her in person for at least two weeks after she arrived back home with her "cold".

Good on you.

I had the impression from way back that antibodies from covid vaccines couldn't be distinguished from antibodies from a covid infection. Is that incorrect? I hope so, because I would really like to know whether I've ever had it.

I, like you, thought that they couldn't distinguish either, but the article I posted says otherwise. I did edit some parts out in my original post so will grab them and post here.

There are two types of COVID-19 antibodies. First there are anti-S antibodies that fight the spiked part of the virus. Then there are anti-nucleocapsid antibodies (anti-N for short) which fight the main body of the virus. Anti-S antibodies are created by both the COVID-19 vaccines and from previous COVID-19 infection. However, anti-N antibodies only come from previous COVID-19 infection. Therefore, the researchers could tell that anyone who has anti-N antibodies had a previous COVID-19 infection.

How Common are Asymptomatic COVID-19 Infections

www.bridgeportct.gov

I'm 62 and starting to have a longer list of health issues, though thankfully most are still minor. But some of my issues are things that seem to be on the list of long covid symptoms. Of course, that list is very long and covid is clearly not the only source of these problems! But still I would really love to know with certainty whether I am a "novid" or not. I'd even get myself tested every couple of years just to know it's still true...

I had asked at one point if there was a test (early on) that could tell me whether or not I have ever had covid. That's when I was told no, because the positive results of a test like that can't distinguish between antibodies from an infection, or from the vaccine. I do not know if what I was told was the truth or not.

But for me, I'm seriously doubting I've ever had it. You have to go around people. lol I have not had 1 single person inside my house since Covid, I refuse to go around people unmasked, indoors or out, and avoid indoor spaces where others have been. I won't even go to my mother's house without it (which drives her nuts) and I stopped eating Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners with her because, well, you can't eat with a mask on. I won't bore you with all the other things I do making it highly likely I'm still a Novid. lol

 

[killarney rose]

After I had a documented case of Covid, as well as a Covid vaccine, I gave blood. A while later I gave plasma. I asked if I had the Covid antibodies. They checked the records from when I gave blood. I had no antibodies.

 

[Gemmie]

After I had a documented case of Covid, as well as a Covid vaccine, I gave blood. A while later I gave plasma. I asked if I had the Covid antibodies. They checked the records from when I gave blood. I had no antibodies.

Good information but this makes me wonder a few things. Mostly how and what they were looking for (and if their tests even looked for what the scientists look for), especially since you had a documented case of Covid.

Were they looking for the correct thing(s)? If however they were testing your blood, were they testing specifically for anti-S antibodies or anti-nucleocapsid antibodies (anti-N for short). I'm thinking likely not. Did you ask?