Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #51

[10ofRods]

California did things a bit differently than New York, they started social distancing sooner than NY did...

California's coronavirus death toll is way below New York's. Here's why

New York became the epicenter of the disease in America because of several factors. The virus arrived there earlier than elsewhere and in more locations; it is denser than any other U.S. city; it depends more on public transportation, putting people close to one another; and it was behind California and Washington state in imposing restrictions on public movement, said Nicholas Jewell, a UC Berkeley biostatistician.

Every night, I walk my mind through the New York issue. If ONLY they had been warned by either the WHO or the CDC. Or even major universities. Earlier. At first, it seemed like this virus wasn't absolutely terrible, then we learned that people in densely populated areas with lots of public transit are...going to be devastated by this longterm.

Dozens of scientists, if not hundreds or thousands, have published on this possibility before. Science fiction writers and movie buffs know it too.

But...even though I try to keep up on science, I don't think I "saw it coming" until early February. I asked many colleagues about it (none of the medical doctors had heard yet, but they aren't specialists in viruses). Biologists knew, anthropologists knew way more than I did, especially the ones about 20 years younger than me. I started stocking up on certain things, but not TP and not gloves. I did not at all expect what was about to happen in any meaningful, medical way. Just wanted to have personal "disaster" preparedness (but couldn't visualize exactly what).

It hit ALL of us on the planet by surprise. China doesn't have the ability to "sound an alarm in the US," nor would it try to do exactly that.

China did what many nations do (temporarily suppress a negative) but did their best to provide tons of data (and still are). They also knew what to do in a pandemic and, frankly, have an authoritarian political system. It has mellowed quite a bit since 1950, but it's still very powerful. No constitution that I know of.

Given the severity and surprise of this, there are bound to be many problems, especially in freedom-loving states like the US. I think we're handling it fairly well (C+ overall at this point; in early March, D-). And I'm not pointing at any particular sector of our society. Only a few college professors were trying to educate (huge problem there IMO). National journals of education, public policy, public health, etc failed to adopt rapid standards of publication or even email chains or newsletters.

The WHO does need criticism, but not excoriation or punishment - it needs to be funded (there are private interests in the US who can do that and are doing that). The CDC, though, well, that's a whole 'nuther topic and when we're further down the line here and fewer people are dying, I hope someone writes a book about it.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

 

[10ofRods]

My doctor has been pregnant twice and so has two toddlers. I hope she's holding up during this crisis.

Thank You so much. Such great people here. You're right that nothing is like normal right now. My health care provider keeps sending me emails that are meant to comfort me with promises of telemedicine calls, but it must be chaos. There's no easy way to reach them really. The email worked best, but I'm stuck on how to get through to one of their pharmacy people.

This is probably going to come across as whining, so scroll and roll anyone who finds it a bore. It's about the silly hardship to get my refills of the much talked about Hydroxychloroquine.
I really don't want to bother them right now; however, I want them to mail me my Plaquenil I need for RA, but they won't when I go online to order. I have to go into their pharmacy to pick it up. Why? They used to mail it! Plus, a side-issue is it says online now only 14 pills again instead of 100. They did that last time and they count it as a full refill. So, instead of 4 refills left = 400 pills, I'll get 56 pills, if this keeps up. Cost isn't an issue. It's what this virus has done to my prescription. I'm shocked, it doesn't seem right or legal all the way around. I really don't want to keep going there and being exposed for only 14 pills. Is there still a shortage on what is suppose to be a stockpile of that drug that they now say doesn't help as thought for CV-19?

Yes, there is still very much a shortage and the major manufacturer is paying millions of dollars to get millions of its pills into clinical trials for CoVId. Virtually their entire new stock (in my estimation) is going to that project - not to you. Their entire production system, which I believe is based in the US but not sure, was geared to a certain amount. Now they want 2 month clinical trials to get their drug it tested for CoVid. They want to ramp up production, but as any capitalist firm would do, they are hedging their bets. Right now they're trying to increase production, but are sending a large portion of what would have gone to consumers like yourself...to this one big study that they are funding.

I think they have the ability to manufacture more, but the cynical side of me says that if the price goes up (as it has done), it might go up further and why not wait to make more money? Short supply = way more money, that's the first law of capitalism (supply and demand).

Sorry if the use of the word "capitalism" made it sound like I'm being political. I'm using it as a description of a very common and very human economic system. It has its flaws

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Iowa woman sews masks and hangs them on a 'giving tree' for anyone to take | wqad.com

 

[Curious Me]

View attachment 244359

So funny. Love it! Used to be people judged you by your shoes. I have had time to shop for fashionable masks!

 

[margarita25]

Mar 27
My Whole Household Has COVID-19
“The thought of simply breathing in and out without coughing and reuniting with my children ... is goal enough. To—literally—live and let live will be enough.”

 

[Anance]

This is a great video on the primary drugs being studied right now. That one da*m drug is being so publicized, but so many are under investigation... These facts of what is being studied is just a wealth of information.

Remdesivir already failed in clinical trials, too. It's not just hydroxychloroquine. The tests have high error rates, the initial studies to find hidden cases were not properly randomized. I think a couple of "promising vaccines" have fallen by wayside.

I am tired of the hype and can't follow SARS-COV 2 blow by blow.

 

[RANCH]

Responding to a post from the previous thread

@katydid23


I don’t know that it’s pointing blame, we did this here in Australia (& New Zealand). I’m not sure exactly how many deaths there were when we started (I’m losing track of time!) but it’s been a few weeks and as of now Australia has 78 deaths and NZ has 17. I think NZ might have been just one death when they shut down, IIRC.

There has been strong public support for the shutdowns. We all saw what was happening in China, Italy, Spain and the growing number of cases in the US (many of our cases had come from travelers to/from the US while they were still reporting low numbers). A shutdown was inevitable, so why wait for many more deaths and an overwhelmed healthcare system.

We also shut our borders fairly early, firstly to anyone who had traveled to China, followed by Iran, Italy & South Korea. Then we just shut the borders to everyone completely. Strong contact tracing of every single case has been in place since the beginning. At first suppression and control of any outbreaks was the plan, never allowing it to overwhelm us, now eradication is potentially a real possibility.

All steps were taken with a fair bit of foresight, and many still thought our government was too slow!

At this stage we’ll be keeping our international borders shut for a long time, while carefully opening up our domestic economy (and potentially allowing travel between the two countries). But not for a few more weeks yet.

moo

The coronavirus shutdown is here. So what's banned in Australia and what's not?
By political reporter Jack Snape
Updated 23 Mar 2020, 7:00am

Looks like the shut down started on March 23rd in Australia.

These are the businesses that can stay open during the coronavirus shutdown

 

[10ofRods]

This is terrible. Just terrible........... how do we get more involved? I am speechless.

I really don't know. I always advise LOCAL. Your neighbors - figure out what to do if people you see often are actually unable to social distance, or thing it's 5G, or (here in California) something to do with snakes. Some of these people want real information, some of them are clinging to disinformation because it suits them.

As to the international cooperation, well, for 3-4 years, I've watched the international system disintegrate more rapidly than ever before. By that, I mean shared polices, rules, laws, regulations and cooperation. International law enforcement, international sharing of medical findings. We've really tried, but it's gotten to be very expensive and federal support was the only thing holding it up (since Carter's presidency - private business in the US does very little philanthropic support of pure research, they're problem-oriented, like Bill Gates).

This pandemic planning needed scenarios, theories and many big studies regarding needed infrastructure. I can't think of any projects like that in the US. There used to be (but very defunded in the late 80's and from then on). And even if we had spent $ on that, I suppose maybe there was a chance it wouldn't help.

In this particular pandemic, if we had actually had planning that employed even the primitive viral science of 1970, we'd have had way way better health and economic outcomes.

I don't know the solution. But right now, I'm confined to my own house and yard. The neighbors are social distancing, but the instant I go to any take-out place, the rules are not followed. When we tried to have rules in the classrooms, we lost entire class sessions to getting people to comply. Some faculty called police. I use a more motherly approach, because despite not liking that role, students understand it. Men in the classroom found it to be a more authoritarian thing, even if they didn't want to. Heck, I'd go in and kick a@@ in their classrooms - but the students like to revert to familiar gendered roles (and authority - can the police MAKE me do it?) and not use common sense. That's how a lot of young people are in America. China is different.

I'm not speechless here on WS (obviously) but in the real world, I truly find myself increasingly speechless. Literally. Questions asked at planning sessions are SO basic. I exchange chats on Zoom with the biologists, nursing professors, chemists, while the rest of the Zoom group is discussing SUCH BASICS. I'm astonished.

I guess the only thing we can do is go on public platforms (how do we do that? Beyond WS?) and try to encourage basic common sense.

 

[Teche]

My 3 year old grandson is currently living with us along with his parents (daughter and SIL) and he has discovered family dinners. He sits there and repeats over and over, "I love family dinner." So cute.

His parents normally work in Manhattan and get home 6-6:30 in the evening. Then it's takeout for dinner or eating around the coffee table in the living room with a quick meal. So family dinner at a home table is a rare thing for him.

Family dinner is so important. My husband and I are retired and downsized and live near my daughter, her husband and 3 young kids. My sil is an ER nurse and my daughter is a NICU NP. My daughter works a 24 hr. And 12 hr. a week. I try to cook 2 home cooked meals for all of us when my daughter works. We eat as a family 2 nights a week. The kiddos love it and the routine. The 2 are school aged and “fight” over who’s going to lead us in the blessing. Now since the stay at home order, the boys are here for many lunches too. It’s great for us and hopefully it’s setting a great tradition for our grandkids.

 

[katydid23]

The coronavirus shutdown is here. So what's banned in Australia and what's not?
By political reporter Jack Snape
Updated 23 Mar 2020, 7:00am

Looks like the shut down started on March 23rd in Australia.

These are the businesses that can stay open during the coronavirus shutdown

California and New York shut down on March 20th. So were were on the same timeline as Australia.

 

[margarita25]

From April 13 WHO PC / source

This is soooo important imo / these are exactly some of my concerns with Colorado based on my assessment of some press conferences by our Governor moo, that masks are being emphasized lacking the part about being part of a comprehensive strategy:

BBM:

“Dr. Michael Ryan: (45:51)
There are issues around wearing those face coverings and disinfecting those face coverings and disposing of those face coverings or masks, and the fact that putting on and off those masks involves people often touching their face as well, and therefore it cannot be done outside the context of very clean hands and proper personal hygiene. And also masks are not an alternative to lockdown. And we’ve said this publicly again and again. WHO support countries who are wished to implement a more broad based strategy of mask wearing or face covering wearing, on a more on a broader basis, as long as it’s part of a comprehensive strategy, as long as it’s linked to the things we said before, community education, personal hygiene, a strategy to find, test and isolate cases.

If mask use added to that, then I think that WHO can see the value. But if mask use is used as an alternative to those public health strategies, it’s used as a reason not to do those other things, Then we believe that is the kind of policy that’s counterproductive. So we see mask use in the broader context of a comprehensive strategy and in that sense, will support member states who wish to introduce that as long as it does not take masks out of the healthcare environment, and people know how to wear them, know how to dispose of them and are doing all the other things that they need to do. Maria?

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove: (47:18)
Just to add, with the comprehensive strategy that Mike just mentioned, it includes also physical distancing, it includes hand hygiene, it includes respiratory etiquette, it includes staying home if you’re unwell, it includes cases being isolated, confirmed cases being isolated, it includes contacts being in quarantine, and it includes following the directives of the national governments if they are stay at home in orders in place. And of course overall, having an empowered community to know what they can do to protect themselves and their families. So as Mike has said, it’s part of a comprehensive approach. It cannot be used alone, but we support governments in making these decisions, and in our recent updated guidance, we’ve put some considerations that they may take into account when making these decisions.

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove: (48:07)
For example, if physical distancing is not possible in certain communities or certain populations, perhaps the use of a face covering or a nonmedical mask may be useful there. And so like Mike says, we support these decisions being made, but as part of a comprehensive approach.

Dr. Michael Ryan: (48:25)
And if I could just supplement, one of the consequences we really don’t want to see happen as lockdowns are eased, there is huge pressure on people to go back to work, to go back to school, to participate in daily life. I don’t want to be the person at home with a fever and with a job to go to where I can make a calculation that instead of picking up the phone and phoning my health provider or phoning the public health authorities and asking for a test and a diagnosis, that I think that putting a mask on is an adequate response to that situation.

And that is something we really have to be careful about. You may be inadvertently sick, you may not know, but it’s something we have to think about very, very carefully. And that’s why everything we do in public health or in health or in policy affects something else. So the pressures on people to go back to work are going to be very strong and very appropriate. But we don’t want people having to make difficult choices, and in some way think that putting a mask on is the same as staying home and reporting the fact that you’re sick to authorities.”

 

[MimosaMornings]

Family dinner is so important. My husband and I are retired and downsized and live near my daughter, her husband and 3 young kids. My sil is an ER nurse and my daughter is a NICU NP. My daughter works a 24 hr. And 12 hr. a week. I try to cook 2 home cooked meals for all of us when my daughter works. We eat as a family 2 nights a week. The kiddos love it and the routine. The 2 are school aged and “fight” over who’s going to lead us in the blessing. Now since the stay at home order, the boys are here for many lunches too. It’s great for us and hopefully it’s setting a great tradition for our grandkids.

How wonderful you are able to do that with your family! Every Sunday was dinner at my grandparents house. We had continued family dinners but unable to get together now.

 

[Tony1902]

@10ofRods & Teche
Merci merci merci
And margarita too

 

[Tillicum]

California and New York shut down on March 20th. So were were on the same timeline as Australia.

We did it in increments in Ohio. maybe they did in California and New York too? ETA yup they did.
Ohio
IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Mass gathering restrictions
March 12, 2020
Initial business closure
March 15, 2020
Educational facilities closed
March 16, 2020
Non-essential services closed
March 23, 2020
Stay at home order
March 23, 2020

New York
IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Mass gathering restrictions
March 12, 2020
Initial business closure
March 16, 2020
Educational facilities closed
March 18, 2020
Non-essential services closed
March 22, 2020
Stay at home order
March 22, 2020

California
IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Mass gathering restrictions
March 11, 2020
Initial business closure
March 19, 2020
Educational facilities closed
March 19, 2020
Non-essential services closed
March 19, 2020
Stay at home order
March 19, 2020

 

[cass523]

Good News

Dr. Dena Grayson@DrDenaGrayson
Good news! 2 human monoclonal antibodies that NEUTRALIZE #SARSCoV2 cloned using specific memory B cells from #COVID19 patients. These mAbs are promising potential prophylactic and therapeutic agents for the deadly

Scott Gottlieb, MD@ScottGottliebMD
New: Researchers clone two human blocking monoclonal antibodies using #SARSCoV2 specific memory B cells isolated from patients with #COVID19 that bind and neutralize activity of virus; demonstrating the basis for antibody drugs as potential therapeutics.

“We have cloned two human blocking mAbs from recovered COVID-19 patients. These two mAbs can lead to neutralization of SARS-CoV-2 virus infection...and hold great promise as specific prophylactic and therapeutic agents against ongoing SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.”

Currently, there are no approved prophylactic vaccines or therapeutic drugs that are specific to COVID-19. Blocking monoclonal antibodies (mAbs), due to their extraordinary antigen specificity, are one of the best candidates for neutralizing virus infection.10,11 Therefore, identifying and cloning blocking mAbs that can specifically target surface viral proteins to block the viral entry to host cells is a very attractive approach for preventing and treating COVID-19, in particular when effective vaccines and therapeutics are unavailable in the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic. We then sought to identify and clone blocking mAbs from the memory B cell repertoire of recently recovered COVID-19 patients to prevent the entry of COVID-19 virus to the host cellls

Human monoclonal antibodies block the binding of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to angiotensin converting enzyme 2 receptor

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-020-0426-7.pdf

dlh2409 on Twitter

 

[katydid23]

From April 13 WHO PC / This is soooo important imo / these are exactly some of my concerns with Colorado based on my assessment of some press conferences moo / source:

BBM:

“Dr. Michael Ryan: (45:51)
There are issues around wearing those face coverings and disinfecting those face coverings and disposing of those face coverings or masks, and the fact that putting on and off those masks involves people often touching their face as well, and therefore it cannot be done outside the context of very clean hands and proper personal hygiene. And also masks are not an alternative to lockdown. And we’ve said this publicly again and again. WHO support countries who are wished to implement a more broad based strategy of mask wearing or face covering wearing, on a more on a broader basis, as long as it’s part of a comprehensive strategy, as long as it’s linked to the things we said before, community education, personal hygiene, a strategy to find, test and isolate cases.

If mask use added to that, then I think that WHO can see the value. But if mask use is used as an alternative to those public health strategies, it’s used as a reason not to do those other things, Then we believe that is the kind of policy that’s counterproductive. So we see mask use in the broader context of a comprehensive strategy and in that sense, will support member states who wish to introduce that as long as it does not take masks out of the healthcare environment, and people know how to wear them, know how to dispose of them and are doing all the other things that they need to do. Maria?

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove: (47:18)
Just to add, with the comprehensive strategy that Mike just mentioned, it includes also physical distancing, it includes hand hygiene, it includes respiratory etiquette, it includes staying home if you’re unwell, it includes cases being isolated, confirmed cases being isolated, it includes contacts being in quarantine, and it includes following the directives of the national governments if they are stay at home in orders in place. And of course overall, having an empowered community to know what they can do to protect themselves and their families. So as Mike has said, it’s part of a comprehensive approach. It cannot be used alone, but we support governments in making these decisions, and in our recent updated guidance, we’ve put some considerations that they may take into account when making these decisions.

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove: (48:07)
For example, if physical distancing is not possible in certain communities or certain populations, perhaps the use of a face covering or a nonmedical mask may be useful there. And so like Mike says, we support these decisions being made, but as part of a comprehensive approach.

Dr. Michael Ryan: (48:25)
And if I could just supplement, one of the consequences we really don’t want to see happen as lockdowns are eased, there is huge pressure on people to go back to work, to go back to school, to participate in daily life. I don’t want to be the person at home with a fever and with a job to go to where I can make a calculation that instead of picking up the phone and phoning my health provider or phoning the public health authorities and asking for a test and a diagnosis, that I think that putting a mask on is an adequate response to that situation.

And that is something we really have to be careful about. You may be inadvertently sick, you may not know, but it’s something we have to think about very, very carefully. And that’s why everything we do in public health or in health or in policy affects something else. So the pressures on people to go back to work are going to be very strong and very appropriate. But we don’t want people having to make difficult choices, and in some way think that putting a mask on is the same as staying home and reporting the fact that you’re sick to authorities.”

Does WHO have any suggestions how a very large country can continue a total national quarantine while still keeping their food and medical supply lines up and running?

That is what worries me the most now. I do not believe we can continue this total lockdown and still assure people there will be food and medicines available in the coming months. JMO

WHO has long list of steps that 'need' to happen before a state reopens. But those steps seem unattainable. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Just a reminder that ALL images require a link to the source in order to give credit to the source (unless it is from a copyright free site).

It's not just us being meanies ... it's to comply with copyright laws.

We have no way of knowing where the images come from, so if there is no link, your post will be removed.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

From April 13 WHO PC / This is soooo important imo / these are exactly some of my concerns with Colorado based on my assessment of some press conferences moo / source:

BBM:

“Dr. Michael Ryan: (45:51)
There are issues around wearing those face coverings and disinfecting those face coverings and disposing of those face coverings or masks, and the fact that putting on and off those masks involves people often touching their face as well, and therefore it cannot be done outside the context of very clean hands and proper personal hygiene. And also masks are not an alternative to lockdown. And we’ve said this publicly again and again. WHO support countries who are wished to implement a more broad based strategy of mask wearing or face covering wearing, on a more on a broader basis, as long as it’s part of a comprehensive strategy, as long as it’s linked to the things we said before, community education, personal hygiene, a strategy to find, test and isolate cases.

If mask use added to that, then I think that WHO can see the value. But if mask use is used as an alternative to those public health strategies, it’s used as a reason not to do those other things, Then we believe that is the kind of policy that’s counterproductive. So we see mask use in the broader context of a comprehensive strategy and in that sense, will support member states who wish to introduce that as long as it does not take masks out of the healthcare environment, and people know how to wear them, know how to dispose of them and are doing all the other things that they need to do. Maria?

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove: (47:18)
Just to add, with the comprehensive strategy that Mike just mentioned, it includes also physical distancing, it includes hand hygiene, it includes respiratory etiquette, it includes staying home if you’re unwell, it includes cases being isolated, confirmed cases being isolated, it includes contacts being in quarantine, and it includes following the directives of the national governments if they are stay at home in orders in place. And of course overall, having an empowered community to know what they can do to protect themselves and their families. So as Mike has said, it’s part of a comprehensive approach. It cannot be used alone, but we support governments in making these decisions, and in our recent updated guidance, we’ve put some considerations that they may take into account when making these decisions.

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove: (48:07)
For example, if physical distancing is not possible in certain communities or certain populations, perhaps the use of a face covering or a nonmedical mask may be useful there. And so like Mike says, we support these decisions being made, but as part of a comprehensive approach.

Dr. Michael Ryan: (48:25)
And if I could just supplement, one of the consequences we really don’t want to see happen as lockdowns are eased, there is huge pressure on people to go back to work, to go back to school, to participate in daily life. I don’t want to be the person at home with a fever and with a job to go to where I can make a calculation that instead of picking up the phone and phoning my health provider or phoning the public health authorities and asking for a test and a diagnosis, that I think that putting a mask on is an adequate response to that situation.

And that is something we really have to be careful about. You may be inadvertently sick, you may not know, but it’s something we have to think about very, very carefully. And that’s why everything we do in public health or in health or in policy affects something else. So the pressures on people to go back to work are going to be very strong and very appropriate. But we don’t want people having to make difficult choices, and in some way think that putting a mask on is the same as staying home and reporting the fact that you’re sick to authorities.”

I just “met” with my best friend from 6 feet away, both of us masked, to “fit him” for a perfect mask with zero gaps. I hit the jackpot, as it seems he and my husband take the same size. Anyway, I told him to get a bunch of paper lunch bags and keep them in the car. I said, once you’ve worn this mask in public, treat it like the outside has poop on it. Take it off by the elastic without touching the outside and drop it in a bag. Do not touch your face. Do not adjust the mask after the initial adjustment when you first put it on with clean hands. I don’t think he realized these things. So I’m glad I went over it with him.

There really does need to be more education about masks.

 

[MsMarple]

Local news from the tip of Washington State on the Olympic Peninsula:

Our local Farmers Market opens tomorrow uptown. I hope it works out successfully as it's the only place besides the food coop that provides 100% local produce. Many safety precautions will be in place:

• There will be 10' space between each vendor business, no middle row of vendors
  
  
• Single market entrance and exit point regulated by volunteers who will control the number of shoppers allowed into the market to maintain and monitor social distancing
  
  
• A controlled number of shoppers will be allowed in the market at one time for physical distancing
  
  
• Marks on the road will demonstrate what 6' looks like
  
  
• JCFM will provide a hand washing area as well as hand sanitizer
  
  
• All shoppers, market staff, volunteers, and vendors will be required to wash their hands before entering the farmers market, shopping or purchasing market tokens
  
  
• A hand sink and sanitizer will be provided at the entrance of the farmers market.
  
  
• Vendors will minimize their displays and offer pre-bagged/portioned food, so shoppers only come in contact with the food they are purchasing
  
  
• Market staff and vendors will follow a regular cleaning schedule with all surfaces cleaned at least once an hour and with the market iPad cleaned between sales
  
  
• Vendors and market staff will have one person designated for money handling and a second for food handling or will provide a drop box for the shopper to pay with exact change
  
  
• Market staff, vendors and volunteers will wear face masks