Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #57

[mickey2942]

I'm looking around. This isn't suicide. But hotlines. I have to run to the grocery. I'll look more in a bit.

Feeling the pressures of the pandemic: Suicide hotlines see 800 percent spike in calls

Right. People have made calls for help.

That is a big difference between "calls for help" and "documented cases of suicide".

It just seems to be irresponsible reporting to say something is true, with zero evidence to back it up. And if we say it enough it is true?

Seems to be a lot of that type of logic going around lately.

 

[musicaljoke]

I don't think there is any government on this earth that can support the citizens of their country indefinitely.

And yes, I care about people.

This is an interesting comment. I wonder if, in countries with larger populations, there is more of a tendency to see the "government" as something outside of the citizens. I am pretty sure, if I heard someone in these parts (N. Ont) state the same sentiment they would likely phrase it thusly: "I don't think that we can support the citizens of this country indefinitely".

Could it be, that where there is a widespread conception that government is separate from the people, there is more reluctance to support government efforts to solve a problem such as CoV-19? I don't know the answer. I'm sure social sciences majors will be studying this as one of many concepts during the post-CoV era.

 

[Runswithscissorz]

Covid vs US Daily Average cause of death...
Wait for it

Covid vs. US Daily Average Cause of Death

 

[CSIDreamer]

This is an interesting comment. I wonder if, in countries with larger populations, there is more of a tendency to see the "government" as something outside of the citizens. I am pretty sure, if I heard someone in these parts (N. Ont) state the same sentiment they would likely phrase it thusly: "I don't think that we can support the citizens of this country indefinitely".

Could it be, that where there is a widespread conception that government is separate from the people, there is more reluctance to support government efforts to solve a problem such as CoV-19? I don't know the answer. I'm sure social sciences majors will be studying this as one of many concepts during the post-CoV era.

I dunno. I see the US government as something funded by its citizens. While some people may feel the government is supporting them, its we the people who pay (in taxes) in the long run. The government cannot just manufacture $$ indefinitely. Jmo

 

[RosalindaA]

I wanted to share a first-hand experience from a job that I had in a small UK care home (although prob 20 years ago now!). One day a lady who was one of the more active residents (she helped in the garden), and usually needed only became very sick and one or two others were feeling unwell, so the GP was due to visit that afternoon. I finished my shift concerned about her but not really aware of the seriousness of the problem. I came back on duty in the morning to a nightmare. This lady was already dead and several others very sick. I will never forget being handed a chart of all the residents' names and the word "deceased" by her name and I think about 8 or so other residents already sick. I was pretty young and I remember being very shocked and scared. There weren't literally black crosses marked on the doors but it felt like it. We had an outbreak of norovirus (aka "the winter vomiting bug").

The deputy manager (experienced but not a trained nurse) had already set up PPE stations outside every room, outlined all the extra infection control procedures on top of normal ones, was giving all the staff info about the virus, how to help the residents get through it and what we needed to do to protect ourselves and our contacts. The building was already locked down to outsiders, families informed and anyone who had been in the building informed. Those of us who worked at other facilities stopped and informed them also.

My point is that even with a quick effective response, viruses will always be ahead of you. They are IN and SPREAD in congregate settings before you have a small cluster of symptomatic people that alerts you to the fact you have a problem. The next few weeks are a blur but I think about a third of the residents were affected some badly but no more deaths as I recall. About half of staff were sick at some point.

I just literally want to smash my head against the wall when I hear "experts" express surprise that Covid-19 has wreaked such havoc in care and nursing homes. Well, what did you think would happen? And hospital nurses are angels and heroes/heroines but there is an implication that the staff in these homes are uncaring and slack. I accept totally that homes should be held accountable and should be able to show what they did to try and prevent outbreaks but people need to understand just how difficult this would have been especially early on. So many risk factors:

Congregate settings, everything spreads easily, an elderly population and what is more, you have the unwell elderly with a high degree of underlying conditions. And these people cannot be distanced, without a lot of personal assistance from staff they cannot live anyway.

All you would need is an asymptomatic staff carrier, a patient carrying the virus transferred back to the home, and you will have very quick spread. There is always a lot of traffic between hospitals and homes. PPE is talked about a lot and of course it's important but it is not 100 % effective. I doubt any experienced health care worker believes that they will not eventually be exposed to Covid-19 if they are working in these settings. And as a manager, how do you find uninfected staff? You may well not be able to find staff at all. I know in the UK an experienced carer/nurse is at risk of being kidnapped off the street they are so in demand.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Ireland records fewest new cases since mid-March
A further 15 people with Covid-19 have died in Ireland, which brings the country’s official death toll to 1,533.

There have also been 92 new cases of the virus, the lowest daily number in nine weeks, with the total now at 24,048, the Department of Health confirmed on Saturday, according to RTE.

“Today is the first time we have seen the number of confirmed cases fall below 100 since mid-March,” said Tony Holohan, chief medical officer in the department.

“While the past nine weeks have been particularly difficult for those cocooning, and for parents with young children, today’s numbers give reassurance that we have all learned and adopted new behaviours of handwashing, respiratory etiquette and social distance that will serve us well as we work together to re-open retail, business and society.”

Coronavirus live news: Italy announces staggered end of lockdown

 

[Tillicum]

Michiganians flock to Ohio to enjoy state's reopening

Hilary Wilcox said she understands that "Michigan is a little crazier" than Ohio as far as being impacted by the COVID-19 virus. Ohio has reported 26,954 COVID cases, with 1,581 deaths. That compares to 50,079 cases and 4,825 deaths in Michigan as of Friday.

"I'm just excited Ohio is opening up, and that I live close enough to drive here," said Wilcox, 31, who made the 75-mile trip from her Wixom home to enjoy her version of normal — an afternoon of lunch and shopping with her friend.

"I'm meeting my best friend, who's from Sandusky (Ohio), I'm going to return a pair of jeans, and probably go to Chick-fil-A," she said.

Rylee Rasmussen, 19, and her 14-year-old sister, Ragean Rasmussen, of Carleton in Monroe County said their shopping excursion Friday was their first since Whitmer imposed the original stay-at-home order March 24.

"It feels weird," Rylee Rasmussen said as she and her sister strolled through the Dick's Sporting Goods store in Franklin Park Mall. "We're not really looking for anything; we just wanted to get out."

 

[TMAN2014]

snipped
Could it be, that where there is a widespread conception that government is separate from the people, there is more reluctance to support government efforts to solve a problem such as CoV-19? snipped

I don't think so. I think people support government efforts to solve the problem TO A POINT. The citizens will follow the rules for so long, but ultimately a place like the USA values its liberty vs powerful governors using extreme powers. The key point is when we go back to normal. Some people want too soon. Some people would keep us under the current conditions for too long.

I think it is healthy for the citizens to push back. It is only their livelihood at stake. When you consider the free society we are used to, I think the states have done well to shut down for 2 months. This is not some communist society, where everyone falls into line, or pays the price. It is much tougher to take away freedoms, even for a brief period of time.

 

[mickey2942]

Michiganians flock to Ohio to enjoy state's reopening

Hilary Wilcox said she understands that "Michigan is a little crazier" than Ohio as far as being impacted by the COVID-19 virus. Ohio has reported 26,954 COVID cases, with 1,581 deaths. That compares to 50,079 cases and 4,825 deaths in Michigan as of Friday.

"I'm just excited Ohio is opening up, and that I live close enough to drive here," said Wilcox, 31, who made the 75-mile trip from her Wixom home to enjoy her version of normal — an afternoon of lunch and shopping with her friend.

"I'm meeting my best friend, who's from Sandusky (Ohio), I'm going to return a pair of jeans, and probably go to Chick-fil-A," she said.

Rylee Rasmussen, 19, and her 14-year-old sister, Ragean Rasmussen, of Carleton in Monroe County said their shopping excursion Friday was their first since Whitmer imposed the original stay-at-home order March 24.

"It feels weird," Rylee Rasmussen said as she and her sister strolled through the Dick's Sporting Goods store in Franklin Park Mall. "We're not really looking for anything; we just wanted to get out."

This. Michigan is still "locked down", so people from Michigan just get in their car, and drive over to Ohio.

May as well open up the malls in Michigan.

Something similar happened here. Our mayor shut down everything in town. So, people just hopped in their car, and went to the bar across the county line.

This random travel, is why the United States will never fully be able to contain Coronavirus.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I see the government as an extension of us, the people. It is supposed to spend as we direct, and frankly, I want healthcare, no homeless people in the riverbed next to my house, police who come within minutes, firemen to fight fires, water that's drinkable and education. That's how I measure the spending of my tax dollars.

I want less spent on supporting big business (but that's a hopeless cause at the federal level), less spent on war and weaponry (again, apparently a hopeless cause) and more spent on research into biomedical issues especially. That's if we have any pennies left over.

So basically no more CV bailouts or am I misunderstanding? Jmo

 

[10ofRods]

That 67% percent of Americans think this is "no big deal" is disconcerting to me.

It means some (many?) will spend their lives in relative isolation and as everyone ages, they'll be joining that group - the economic consequences will be more spread out though. Sort of. So if that's what the people want, that's what will happen. In America, the median age at which CoVid strikes is younger than in the world figures (69 - which means half are under 69 and earlier than 50 would be considered an outlier). Hopefully enough people will get immunity to CoVid during this current event, which has proven unable to get people to stay home well enough to stop it.

If we take all 55+ people or 60+ people out of the workforce to protect them, that means that by the time a neurosurgeon or other specialist hits their stride - by the time someone is starting to be on the outskirts of what elder scientists and professionals know - they'll be working remotely. But not in oncological surgery (as an example - we need those older doctors).



We're heading into summer with 1500 deaths a day. It may go down to 100o or even 800 by end of June - we hope and pray. But that's still 2400 dead Americans each month until it spikes again next winter (late autumn on the East Coast).

Or it could stay at 1500 or 1000 - we don't know. Or it could go up. I'm trying to be optimistic.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Ireland records fewest new cases since mid-March
A further 15 people with Covid-19 have died in Ireland, which brings the country’s official death toll to 1,533.

There have also been 92 new cases of the virus, the lowest daily number in nine weeks, with the total now at 24,048, the Department of Health confirmed on Saturday, according to RTE.

“Today is the first time we have seen the number of confirmed cases fall below 100 since mid-March,” said Tony Holohan, chief medical officer in the department.

“While the past nine weeks have been particularly difficult for those cocooning, and for parents with young children, today’s numbers give reassurance that we have all learned and adopted new behaviours of handwashing, respiratory etiquette and social distance that will serve us well as we work together to re-open retail, business and society.”

And yet, Ireland, will keep it's Bars & Pubs Closed until August 10. Why? Because unlike Wisconsin, they truly want to ensure that the curve is flattened. And again, we're talking about the Irish here.

 

[katydid23]

Right. People have made calls for help.

That is a big difference between "calls for help" and "documented cases of suicide".

It just seems to be irresponsible reporting to say something is true, with zero evidence to back it up. And if we say it enough it is true?

Seems to be a lot of that type of logic going around lately.

Yes, there is a difference between documented suicides and calls to a suicide help line.

But it takes quite awhile for suicides to be documented. Thery often have to wait for tox reports to come back, which can take months. It is a long process.

But knowing there is a 800% increase in calls for help, should be a big clue about the potential for an increase in suicides down the line.

----from an article on that subject:
“We don’t have a lot of real-time data coming in fully from all over those centers yet,” said Dr. Perri Rosen, a consulting psychologist for the Pennsylvania Department of Human Services’ Office of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services’ Bureau of Children’s Behavioral Health Services.

“But we have heard from a lot of the call centers, the crisis centers, that they are seeing a definite increase in calls coming in since COVID hit during March and April.”

“We don’t know the longer-term effect that this will have,” Rosen said. “We won’t know the impact on suicide deaths probably for a while to come. But there is a potential for that.”

Crisis hotlines see increase in calls during pandemic

 

[mickey2942]

So basically no more CV bailouts or am I misunderstanding? Jmo

I know that universities are going to want bailout money. And they should not get it.

Instead, their focus should be on what programs need to be cut, what type of cost savings can we generate.

 

[RosalindaA]

Whoops, should have written this lady "usually needed minimal help". Sadly the norovirus put so much strain on her heart with the violent vomiting, this underlying condition of a weak heart led to her death. I have no doubt that she probably would have carried on enjoying her life for years if she had not been exposed. Like many carers in these homes I got to know our residents very well and really did care about them as people. We would get to know their very interesting histories and experiences and you develop a personal friendship with some. These lives are valuable and everyone deserves a comfortable old age and "a good death".
It may sound odd but some of my best days/nights at work have been looking after dying people, it's your chance to get everything perfect for them and ensure that they do not suffer.
I can just imagine how traumatic it would have been for me and my colleagues to have a lot of people we had known for years dying around us in large numbers and there to be very little we could do about it. I just hope people are not going for long periods struggling to breathe. It's a horrible, frightening thing to experience (I'm asthmatic) and truly horrible to watch even for a short time. I am not in favour of euthanasia (my personal opinion after many years in healthcare) but I do agree that when all hope is lost, medication should be given to alleviate distress. This is with the knowledge that this may risk death, but the intent is to prevent suffering, not to kill. Very important distinction.

In relation to Covid, this is why I believe the initial lockdowns in places where there were many cases were absolutely necessary, so that numbers were not so high, that patients could not be given every chance to live and receive high quality care. Otherwise, euthanasia would have raised its head. What else as an overwhelmed doctor with dozens of people gasping for air around you, could you do? Unrelenting death is not normal even for healthcare workers and I do wonder how this pandemic will affect retention and recruitment of health staff.
I also absolutely agree that it is so important for older and vulnerable people that they get to have a life, people need to see their families and friends. We really need some determined and creative thinking on this.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I know that universities are going to want bailout money. And they should not get it.

Instead, their focus should be on what programs need to be cut, what type of cost savings can we generate.

I think every place needs to look at their budgets.

 

[katydid23]

And yet, Ireland, will keep it's Bars & Pubs Closed until August 10. Why? Because unlike Wisconsin, they truly want to ensure that the curve is flattened. And again, we're talking about the Irish here.

And yet, they are reopening some areas:

Reopening Ireland Q&A: What will open next Monday and can I meet up with friends?


Lockdown easing begins on Monday, here’s what is scheduled to happen from then until August


Reopening Ireland Q&A: What will open next Monday and can I meet up with friends?


What exactly will reopen?
Garden centres, farmers’ markets and hardware stores will reopen as well as opticians, motor and bicycle repair shops and phone repair shops. Outdoor workers in construction can return including gardeners and those working in allotments. Tennis courts and golf courses can also reopen but social distancing will apply.


Can I meet up with family and friends from Monday?
Up to four people who don’t live together can meet outdoors while keeping at least two metres apart. People are still being encouraged to stay at home as much as possible. Attendance at funerals is being kept to a maximum of 10 people.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

And yet, Ireland, will keep it's Bars & Pubs Closed until August 10. Why? Because unlike Wisconsin, they truly want to ensure that the curve is flattened. And again, we're talking about the Irish here.

Well, lots of Irish people do miss the pubs but they're almost impossible to maintain social distancing in. Unlike restaurants people are packed in together cheek by jowl with little personal space. The restaurants will not reopen for a while yet but it will still be before the pubs. The plan for the pubs is to ban smoking outside where people can congregate and only do table service inside with I think max 6 or 8 to a table. It will be a big change from what people think of as the typical pub experience but most Irish people accept that it is necessary for now.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Actions Have Consequences

Over 180 church goers told to self-quarantine after attendee at Mother's Day service tests positive for COVID-19

The church was violation of the stay-at-home order California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) issued on March 19, which prohibits large public gatherings. Butte County Public Health officials said ignoring the state order could lead to “more restrictive measures” as the virus continues to spread in California.

“At this time, organizations that hold in-person services or gatherings are putting the health and safety of their congregations, the general public and our local ability to open up at great risk,” Danette York, director of Butte County Public Health said in a statement.

Jacobsen told the Post he felt emboldened to host the church service last Sunday because of the relatively little cases in Butte County. The county of over 200,000 people has only 22 cases and no deaths as of Saturday.

“I already had to cancel our Easter celebration, which is the first Easter from when I received Jesus into my life that I wasn’t able to be a church service, and that’s very difficult,” he said. “I see church as a very essential part of my life.”

Over 180 church goers told to self-quarantine after attendee at Mother's Day service tests positive for COVID-19

 

[10ofRods]

So basically no more CV bailouts or am I misunderstanding? Jmo

I don't think bailing out businesses is a basic government function. My sense is that many Americans think it's a good idea, because...their jobs. So, if that's what the majority of Americans want - then, fine.

Is there another way of fixing the problem? Yes, of course.

I think most Americans can agree that certain businesses are essential (agriculture, hospitals, for example). Real estate developers? I bet if we all voted on the way bail-outs happen, we would rank some things higher than others - but that's not how our democracy is working right now. Personally, I would not bail out every business and I would want panels of experts to appear before Congress or Senate in the building of a list. Should we salvage every single small airline? Can states apply for grants to salvage their own short hop airlines if they are necessary?

If we'd had a plan (and we did have a plan in past years, a plan we never had to put into action), it would have helped. Maybe that's what will happen next.

But agriculture, medical supply industries, essential transportation (so that all states can have food), hospitals (most are businesses), and a few others should be prioritized. Not who gets their application in first or who knows whom. Also, I am in favor of the Small Business Administration, which used to be a robust institution that aided small business owners so as to help them absorb start-up costs, but didn't necessary reward all of them when they went out of business - which sounds about right to me. But if a small business was successful for X years, they should receive aid right now based on the number of employees.

OTOH, certain industries are going to suffer and die as the world gets back on its axis. J.C. Penney's just declared bankruptcy. It will probably not be back in a recognizable form (IMO).

The employees of all these collapsing businesses need help - but bail-outs most decidedly do not help them. Companies receiving bail-outs should have to show they spent it all on payroll and essential operating expenses. That's what the IRS used to be for.