Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #63

[Rocco]

People who receive no income at all wouldn’t have lost income due to COVID and would continue to receive the same benefits they received prior to Covid.

My daughter and her husband were both able to keep their jobs and work from home, so they had no loss of income, and yet received $3,400 because they have 2 children. They actually came out way ahead because they didn't need gas money to commute every day. I'm sure there were other families in the same situation. Handing out this money willy nilly to everyone is pathetic.
There was a time when people were too proud to take hand outs and now they expect it---demand it even.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Why are the bars open if they are potentially killing people who don’t go to them?

Surely you understand by now that people who are not careful can and will spread it to those who are careful but have to visit the grocery.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Black Lives Matter protests have not led to a spike in coronavirus cases, research says
By Leah Asmelash, CNN
Black Lives Matter protests have not led to a spike in coronavirus cases, research says - CNN

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus
June 24, 20203:23 PM ET
Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus

Black Lives Matter protests haven't led to COVID-19 spikes. It may be due to people staying home.
As the protests grew, many people not participating opted to stay home and avoid going out.
Black Lives Matter protests haven't led to COVID-19 spikes. It may be due to people staying home.

Why protests aren't as dangerous for spreading coronavirus as you might think
Ashish Jha
Why protests aren't as dangerous for spreading coronavirus as you might think | Ashish Jha


Did Black Lives Matter protests cause a coronavirus surge ...
www.vox.com › coronavirus-pandemic-black-lives-mat...2 days ago - But multiple analyses suggest the protests are not to blame, according to what ... and so on — in which the coronavirus is more likely to spread.

I think the one about how they hypothesize the virus did not spread because people were in fact avoiding BLM protests like whoa is particularly specious. Aren’t we all supposed to care about BLM as a public health crisis? Shouldn’t such people in fact be condemned for avoiding protests? They’re certainly learning less, if anything, about the movement while hiding behind their front doors. But apparently, when it comes to helping minimize risky behavior on the part of protestors, it’s OK to skip the marches and you will de facto be congratulated upon doing so... ?? My head reels.

 

[tresir2012]

I am not anti-religion, but stats now say going to a bar and going to church are equals in spreading COVID-19.

Could you link those stats please?

 

[tresir2012]

Good thing it's not a zero sum game. You can choose to not go to either.

But what about those who may potentially be hospitalized, have permanent health problems or even die, due to those being less circumspect with their actions.

It's one thing to take a risky action that may lead to bad consequences for oneself (any dangerous sport), it's quite another when it may also negatively affect - and without their consent - those who come in contact with that person. I don't think people should be giving Typhoid Mary accolades for her individualism anytime soon. JMO, your mileage may vary of course.

Ok so how do we stop the people protesting, the beach parties and fights, the boat parties, the prom parties, the illegal raves and street parties, because police are not going to break those up? They never have done in the past and they still are not going to now. They just monitor and make periphery arrests if they can do so safely or there is risk to life. Our pubs are about to open and many of us will be attending safely and supporting our locals or we will lose them.

 

[tresir2012]

I can't believe anyone is willing to admit that they've calculated the risk of potentially killing other people and have concluded that it's worth it to go to a bar regularly. Or that their lives without bars are a living hell. Do people admit this in real life or just anonymously on message boards?

SMH.

If the bars and casinos are legally open, which they have been or are about to be, as are our shops, what is the exact problem?
Italy and Spain and parts of US have opened up, we are next. It is a big experiment but the economy cannot manage otherwise. MOO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Why are you assuming that getting the virus under control is impossible? They’ve done it in other nations. And have successfully reopened, with some modifications and safety precautions.

Again, if everyone had played their part, we could’ve succeeded in flattening the curve and then be able to target any outbreaks and isolate those.

But people screaming about masks and testing and tracing have made that difficult.

In the United States, that was never the goal. The goal was to keep it under Hospital capacity until that time where there was treatment and or vaccines to assist. M o o

 

[katydid23]

I think the one about how they hypothesize the virus did not spread because people were in fact avoiding BLM protests like whoa is particularly specious. Aren’t we all supposed to care about BLM as a public health crisis? Shouldn’t such people in fact be condemned for avoiding protests? They’re certainly learning less, if anything, about the movement while hiding behind their front doors. But apparently, when it comes to helping minimize risky behavior on the part of protestors, it’s OK to skip the marches and you will de facto be congratulated upon doing so... ?? My head reels.

Here is why I have an issue with those articles, declaring the protests were safe from spreading the virus:

Compare these two recent articles---

Did protests spread the coronavirus? Here are the Utah numbers and the national research.
Did protests spread the coronavirus? Here are the Utah numbers and the national research.

"Of course, just because something is true over the aggregate nationally doesn’t make it so locally. The biggest protests were in Salt Lake City proper, rather than the surrounding areas. If protests caused coronavirus growth, we would probably expect to see greater proportional growth in Salt Lake City than the rest of the county. Thanks to Salt Lake County’s city-by-city coronavirus data, we can do that comparison.

I don’t see any bigger growth in Salt Lake City than the rest of Salt Lake County, proportionally. Over the aggregate, growth looks pretty equal, if anything, it might be a tad greater in the non-SLC parts of the county."


[so they compared where the marches took place to surrounding areas, and then decided there was no difference in surges, so the protests were not to Blame? ]


Meanwhile:
The surge continues: Utah reports 578 new COVID-19 cases, with one new death; St. George ICU nearing capacity
The surge continues: Utah reports 578 new COVID-19 cases, with one new death; St. George ICU nearing capacity

"Utah saw an increase of 578 COVID-19 cases Saturday as a spike in infections continued to stress medical providers and hospital capacity.

That brought the state’s total to 20,628 positive cases thus far in the pandemic, a daily rate increase of 2.9% from Friday."




SO all of the articles that I read about 'the protests not affecting the numbers', compared the city that the marches took place, with surrounding areas, and decided there was little difference, even though there were surges in all the areas.

That seems like a faulty assumptions to assume that all of the marchers would stay in the city that they protested in. And that seems to explain, why they have come to a mistaken conclusion that the protests did not spread the virus around. JMO

Many protesters traveled to the big cities from surrounding suburbs and counties. And they would then bring the virus back to their homes, and not expect it would be seen in the numbers of the area where the march took place.

 

[tresir2012]

Because our nation puts profit over people and because bar owners have little way of remaining solvent without reopening, due to the way our system works.

We could change things.

How do we change that in a capitalist society?

 

[tresir2012]

Here is why I have an issue with those articles, declaring the protests were safe from spreading the virus:

Compare these two recent articles---

Did protests spread the coronavirus? Here are the Utah numbers and the national research.
Did protests spread the coronavirus? Here are the Utah numbers and the national research.

"Of course, just because something is true over the aggregate nationally doesn’t make it so locally. The biggest protests were in Salt Lake City proper, rather than the surrounding areas. If protests caused coronavirus growth, we would probably expect to see greater proportional growth in Salt Lake City than the rest of the county. Thanks to Salt Lake County’s city-by-city coronavirus data, we can do that comparison.

I don’t see any bigger growth in Salt Lake City than the rest of Salt Lake County, proportionally. Over the aggregate, growth looks pretty equal, if anything, it might be a tad greater in the non-SLC parts of the county."


[so they compared where the marches took place to surrounding areas, and then decided there was no difference in surges, so the protests were not to Blame? ]


Meanwhile:
The surge continues: Utah reports 578 new COVID-19 cases, with one new death; St. George ICU nearing capacity
The surge continues: Utah reports 578 new COVID-19 cases, with one new death; St. George ICU nearing capacity

"Utah saw an increase of 578 COVID-19 cases Saturday as a spike in infections continued to stress medical providers and hospital capacity.

That brought the state’s total to 20,628 positive cases thus far in the pandemic, a daily rate increase of 2.9% from Friday."




SO all of the articles that I read about 'the protests not affecting the numbers', compared the city that the marches took place, with surrounding areas, and decided there was little difference, even though there were surges in all the areas.

That seems like a faulty assumptions to assume that all of the marchers would stay in the city that they protested in. And that seems to explain,ain why they have come to a mistaken conclusion that the protests did not spread the virus around. JMO

That's clearly faulty as we know people travelled for the protests, even from neighbouring states, then they would return, so it wouldn't be possible to necessarily see any increase unless that was known by authorities some way. (Phone analysis?).

 

[Snoods]

Business owners rally against Harris County mask order

“HOUSTON – Around 60 people gathered to protest the Harris County mask order in downtown Houston on Saturday.

The group held an event called, ‘Unmuzzled Freedom Rally.”

Steven Hotze was a speaker at the rally.

“This is not a pandemic,” Hotze said. “If this was a pandemic, why didn’t all of us get the virus?”
———-

Not AT ALL blaming the messenger, just somewhat explaining the message? Steven Hotze is a well-known IMO “ambulance chaser” type doctor, who heavily advertises on the radio and billboards. He is known for touting his own special vitamins. He is probably setting the stage to sell his new virus cure. I can’t believe he wrangled up 60 people, lol.

Not that he doesn’t sound “out there,” but because he is “out there.” IMO.

Unfortunately, that virus horse already bolted from the stable.

Increasing numbers of Houston residents have reportedly been diagnosed with COVID-19 after attending protests against the death of George Floyd.

The Houston Police Department is reporting an uptick in novel coronavirus cases among its ranks, following a string of downtown protests and a massive march over the killing of George Floyd.

Welcome to Hotze Vitamins | Essential Vitamins Store
https://www.newsweek.com/houston-pr...ronavirus-after-marching-george-floyd-1511066
Houston police see uptick in COVID cases after George Floyd protests

 

[Trino]

If their choice of living in the moment was benign I might agree with you. But it's not! It has consequences and severe ones at that. They will seek help when they get sick.. exposing others they are in contact with and those that will treat them.

Going to a bar, then going home and exposing others is not acceptable. The world is not just your personal space.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Texas virus cases take 'swift and dangerous turn'

Texas news hits the bbc here today

 

[tresir2012]

I don't know who this Florida doctor is, but even those who have no symptoms might show lung damage on x-rays. And by the way, if hospitals and ICUs are filling up to capacity (as they are in several states) , I really don't think it's because totally asymptomatic patients are laying in those ICU beds.

It's in the article.

John Thomas Littell, MD, is a board-certified family physician. After earning his MD from George Washington University, he served in the US Army, receiving the Meritorious Service Medal for his work in quality improvement, and also served with the National Health Service Corps in Montana. During his eighteen years in Kissimmee, FL, Dr Littell has served on the faculty of the UCF School of Medicine, President of the County Medical Society, and Chief of Staff at the Florida Hospital. He currently resides with his wife, Kathleen, and family in Ocala, Florida, where he remains very active as a family physician with practices both in Kissimmee and Ocala. To learn more, visit johnlittellmd.com

June 14, 2020

 

[tmar]

This is how the entire country is helping 'one state'.

Australia to ‘marshal’ resources to save Victoria: PM

Australia to ‘marshal’ resources to save Victoria: PM

Sky News Australia

5 hrs ago
...
Prime Minister Scott Morrison says every resource will be used to deal with the boom of COVID-19 in Victoria which recorded 75 new cases in the past 24 hours – the highest jump since March.

“We have seven states and territories at the moment in Australia where there is no or virtually no community transmission,” Mr Morrison said.

“What that means is resources that are available in other states can also be deployed to assist with the outbreak in Victoria.”

Mr Morrison said marshalling resources across states and territories was a topic of discussion last week.

“Premier Andrews has the full support of myself and every premier and chief minister in the country to deal with this outbreak,” he said.

 

[KALI]

Because the "Media" nowadays is not honest and truthful?
I don't believe 90% of what they say or write anymore.
They all seem to have an agenda.
I think it's truly terrible and terrifying.
Moo

Here is why I have an issue with those articles, declaring the protests were safe from spreading the virus:

Compare these two recent articles---

Did protests spread the coronavirus? Here are the Utah numbers and the national research.
Did protests spread the coronavirus? Here are the Utah numbers and the national research.

"Of course, just because something is true over the aggregate nationally doesn’t make it so locally. The biggest protests were in Salt Lake City proper, rather than the surrounding areas. If protests caused coronavirus growth, we would probably expect to see greater proportional growth in Salt Lake City than the rest of the county. Thanks to Salt Lake County’s city-by-city coronavirus data, we can do that comparison.

I don’t see any bigger growth in Salt Lake City than the rest of Salt Lake County, proportionally. Over the aggregate, growth looks pretty equal, if anything, it might be a tad greater in the non-SLC parts of the county."


[so they compared where the marches took place to surrounding areas, and then decided there was no difference in surges, so the protests were not to Blame? ]


Meanwhile:
The surge continues: Utah reports 578 new COVID-19 cases, with one new death; St. George ICU nearing capacity
The surge continues: Utah reports 578 new COVID-19 cases, with one new death; St. George ICU nearing capacity

"Utah saw an increase of 578 COVID-19 cases Saturday as a spike in infections continued to stress medical providers and hospital capacity.

That brought the state’s total to 20,628 positive cases thus far in the pandemic, a daily rate increase of 2.9% from Friday."




SO all of the articles that I read about 'the protests not affecting the numbers', compared the city that the marches took place, with surrounding areas, and decided there was little difference, even though there were surges in all the areas.

That seems like a faulty assumptions to assume that all of the marchers would stay in the city that they protested in. And that seems to explain, why they have come to a mistaken conclusion that the protests did not spread the virus around. JMO

Many protesters traveled to the big cities from surrounding suburbs and counties. And they would then bring the virus back to their homes, and not expect it would be seen in the numbers of the area where the march took place.

 

[SouthAussie]

Those 300 people who just arrived back in my state from Mumbai? (IIRC a member here was interested in hearing how this was turning out, as an indicator.)


.... the state recorded three new cases overnight from a recent flight that landed in Adelaide from Mumbai.
One of the cases was a three-year-old girl, another was a woman in her 30s and the third was a woman in her 40s.
The infant girl has no symptoms and all three are coping well in mandatory hotel quarantine.

South Australian border opening now 'under cloud' after Victorian outbreak


This is from the first round of testing. They will be tested again a few days prior to the 14-day quarantine period ending.

 

[Trino]

Florida doctor John Little explains how the definition of a COVID-19 case differs from the typical way medical cases are defined, rendering the number of COVID-19 cases a useless statistic.

“During my career in family medicine, including several years as an Army physician, I have cared for patients with chickenpox, shingles, Lyme disease as well as measles, tuberculosis, malaria, and AIDS. The “case definition” established for all of these diseases by the CDC requires the presence of signs and symptoms of that disease. In other words, each case involved a SICK patient. Laboratory studies may be performed to “confirm” a diagnosis, but are not sufficient in the absence of clinical symptoms.

Having now been privileged to care for sick patients with COVID-19, both in and out of the hospital setting, I am happy to see the number of these sick patients dwindle almost to zero in my community – while the “case numbers” for COVID-19 continue to go up. Why is that?

In marked contrast to measles, shingles, and other infectious disease, “cases” of COVID-19 do NOT require the presence of ANY symptoms whatsoever. Health departments are encouraging everyone and anyone to come in for testing, and each positive test is reported as yet another “new” case of COVID-19!

. . .

Now perhaps you see why the increasing number of cases, and even deaths, due to COVID-19 is fraught with misinterpretation and is NOT in any way a measure of the ACTUAL morbidity and mortality FROM COVID-19. My patients who insist upon wearing masks, gloves and social distancing are citing these misleading statistics as justification for their decisions (and, of course, that they are following the “CDC guidelines”). I simply advise them, “COVID-19 is NOT in the atmosphere around us; it resides in the respiratory tracts of infected individuals and can only be transmitted to others by sick, infected persons after prolonged contact with others”.”

Much more here:
Letter to the Editor: Why Increasing Number of Cases of COVID-19 is NOT Bad News

If it can only be transmitted by sick, infected persons after prolonged contact, what about asymptomatic individuals? What about persons who have not had PROLONGED contact, just incidental?

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder how protesting fits in statistically? I suppose we won’t know because contact tracers were told not to ask people if they attended a protest.

Protests were happening all around the world, including countries that have excellent tracing. There should be stats available.

In pictures: Black Lives Matter protests taking on the world

Images From a Worldwide Protest Movement

 

[tmar]

With Covid-19, losing jobs etc, so many are just washed out.

Take a look at this sad picture: just washed out.
It shows just one of the poor animals after the bush fires.
Humans are also washed out, with this virus, all over the world.

Like the bush fire animals recovering, humans too will slowly recover from the virus.

Associated Press

(https://donate.wwf.org.au/donate/bushfire-recovery-new?t=AP0520O01&f=41110-227?utm_campaign=ret_appeal#gs.8yusba)