Court Appearances and Canadian Legal Terms

[SnooperDuper]

I'm not sure what your point is here. That, because they were investigating other crimes that may be connected to the accused, it's okay to let TB's case simmer for a year?

Do you think it simmered for a year, or, since neither of DM, MS or CN talked, it took a year to investigate?

The Crown is obligated to provide full disclosure to the Defense in a timely manner. That includes any and all parts of the investigation, including things that may point to an accused's innocence. If new evidence is found after disclosure has been provided, that still needs to be disclosed to the Defense as soon as it's available.

LE can't disclose information that will compromise a current investigation, so I bet there was a ton of info they were able to hold back until they closed the main investigation if they didn't lay charges until April 2014 (I think there is a time limit on how long they have to make the case? Lay charges? That's where time limits lie.)

No software is perfect.

That diagram was prepared by CBC, not HPS.

The point is, MCM has powerful tools for visualizing and organizing data. DM's team had BeeDocs. Now they don't even have DP.

I doubt that the defense received a pile of paper. More than likely a box of computer files.

Loads of PDFs:

Case preparation can be an intimidating task, especially in large investigations where vast numbers of documents, actions, exhibits and various multimedia files have been assembled.

PowerCase provides case preparation facilities to ensure disclosure decisions are processed and recorded accurately, and your investigative information is compiled and assembled promptly, and in the appropriate format required, for any business area (e.g. prosecution).

Xanalys eBrief is integrated into the PowerCase platform to generate a range of documents (and document tree structures) from your collection of evidence. Briefs of Evidence, Witness Lists, Statements, Disclosure Schedules (MG6) can be automatically created in an electronic format that is easy to distribute and process using other tools (e.g. PDF generation).

eBrief uses open standards such as web services, XML and XPS to allow for easy customisation of generated reports using commonly available XML tools.

http://www.xanalys.com/products/powercase/powercase-features/

Thank heavens for that system speeding up the investigation. Otherwise it might have taken four to six years to get to trial. :gaah:

JMO

Who knows? Three murders is a lot to investigate.

 

[Alethea Dice]

View attachment 76288

Actually the charges were laid re WM and LB on the 9th...but anyway...is there anything out of whack here...? Isn't there normally time allowed for investigation, thorough investigation of a case before LE rushes to test their theories in court? Is one of the cases taking far longer than any of the others?

Not sure if this will work, but let me try to update your chart.



As you can see, yes, one case is taking about a year longer than the other two. TB's case has already been 32 months and is still in the pre-trial motions (or according to the latest CBC article, only in the pre-trial discussions with the motions to start later in September) with still no date set for trial. If TB's case hadn't skipped the preliminary hearing, judging by the other two cases, it should have already happened by the beginning of the year and we should be into the trial by now, not waiting another 6 months or more.

When should LE have stopped investigating, on May 10, 2013 when they first arrested DM? (Then they would have never arrested MS on the 22nd)

Of course not. But it shouldn't take another year to get the evidence to go to trial. One case should be put off just in case they find evidence of another case in another jurisdiction by the same accused. They are still different cases, different jurisdictions, different trials. Why should SB have to wait until they finish investigating other connections to be able to put the trial for TB behind her?

Isn't it only fair to DM to consider all the accusations against him together?

No, it's not fair to DM and it's not fair to SB. He still has to go through all the trials. Are you saying that if they happen to find another fourth connection, both DM & SB should have to wait until they wrap that one up too?

Aren't they doing well for time given the number of cases DM is subject to? I mean DM's like the guy who orders 6 McDoubles at the drive through, he's clogging the system with cases.

No, they're not. Once again, three cases, three trials, two different jurisdictions.

JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Year, what's another year in solitary confinement when you already have 2 under your belt and are staring down 7 decades more...?

7 decades more ???

 

[Alethea Dice]

Do you think it simmered for a year, or, since neither of DM, MS or CN talked, it took a year to investigate?



LE can't disclose information that will compromise a current investigation, so I bet there was a ton of info they were able to hold back until they closed the main investigation if they didn't lay charges until April 2014 (I think there is a time limit on how long they have to make the case? Lay charges? That's where time limits lie.)



The point is, MCM has powerful tools for visualizing and organizing data. DM's team had BeeDocs. Now they don't even have DP.



Loads of PDFs:



http://www.xanalys.com/products/powercase/powercase-features/



Who knows? Three murders is a lot to investigate.

They wouldn't need to disclose information about LB or WM's cases, only what pertains to TB's case.

PDF's aren't piles of papers. Your link says"Briefs........can be automatically created in electronic format that is easy to distribute...."

JMO

 

[Tamarind]

The three M's were charged two days before that, April 8, 2014.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

That's 6 people charged and two new murder charges for DM over 2 days related to Project Capella.

I would argue that because CN was not picked up until April 10, 2014, the TB case was open and being investigated until then. I don't think LE was obligated to disclose that to DM's lawyer, either.



That PowerCase software I mentioned earlier - LE puts in all of their evidence in forms (like doing your taxes) and it spits out disclosure documents automatically once you release evidence for disclosure.

I could imagine DM getting nothing, nothing, nothing, and then once the investigators close the investigation and release evidence for disclosure...they just have to punch a button and a flood of perfectly formatted and validated disclosure documents would be released from the system all at once.

The software makes sure the documents are technically perfect.

LE has a huge advantage here because they have software that allows them to visualize all of their evidence: for instance, look at the network diagram HPS released for Project Pharoh:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...nd-suspended-hamilton-cop-ruthowsky-1.3110089

DM's lawyers OTOH are going to have to accept a good old fashioned pile of paper, and try to make sense of that, snap.

It's interesting that DP is off the case after 2 years.

DP was going to take all that evidence and put it into a timeline in BeeDocs http://peeldefencelawyer.ca/my-philosophy/

LE has a much more sophisticated information management system (which IMO must have helped speed the investigation quite a bit).

That is not necessarily true. There is case law that suggests otherwise and also their systems are often not current with information. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

7 decades more ???

SD is counting on 3 life sentences served consecutively. Life is life is life. Doesn't matter if 3 life sentences are consecutive or concurrent if they just deny parole.

JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Do you think it simmered for a year, or, since neither of DM, MS or CN talked, it took a year to investigate?



LE can't disclose information that will compromise a current investigation, so I bet there was a ton of info they were able to hold back until they closed the main investigation if they didn't lay charges until April 2014 (I think there is a time limit on how long they have to make the case? Lay charges? That's where time limits lie.)



The point is, MCM has powerful tools for visualizing and organizing data. DM's team had BeeDocs. Now they don't even have DP.



Loads of PDFs:



http://www.xanalys.com/products/powercase/powercase-features/



Who knows? Three murders is a lot to investigate.

Shouldnt most of the WM investigation have been done in November/December 2012

Disclosure comes from the crown. The crown uses hard drives sometimes for disclosure and even that can be a right mess. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Not sure if this will work, but let me try to update your chart.

View attachment 76299

As you can see, yes, one case is taking about a year longer than the other two. TB's case has already been 32 months and is still in the pre-trial motions (or according to the latest CBC article, only in the pre-trial discussions with the motions to start later in September) with still no date set for trial. If TB's case hadn't skipped the preliminary hearing, judging by the other two cases, it should have already happened by the beginning of the year and we should be into the trial by now, not waiting another 6 months or more.

Well there are still 16 months between WM's death and the charge against DM but anyway...

I guess the year's difference you see then comes from the fact that a year-long investigation happened after the TB charges but before the WM and LB charges. DM has already had lawyers arguing his position so it is not as if his hands have been tied all this time.

I don't buy the argument that pre-trial motions, hearings, or any other type of inquisition are not part of the trial.

Of course not. But it shouldn't take another year to get the evidence to go to trial. One case should be put off just in case they find evidence of another case in another jurisdiction by the same accused. They are still different cases, different jurisdictions, different trials. Why should SB have to wait until they finish investigating other connections to be able to put the trial for TB behind her?

Huh? The trial process has begun, it is rolling, the B family shows up for every session as they said they would.

How long should it have taken to investigate the TB case - 6 weeks? You certainly don't seem to think the complex science - e.g., charred remains, possibly degraded DNA - was any kind of hurdle. TB's remains were returned to SB the week before June 15. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/15/tim_bosma_comes_home_heartbreakingly_in_a_small_box.html Should they have closed the case then? How long is an appropriate amount of time to investigate multiple crime scenes over multiple jurisdictions? Two weeks? A week?

No, it's not fair to DM and it's not fair to SB. He still has to go through all the trials. Are you saying that if they happen to find another fourth connection, both DM & SB should have to wait until they wrap that one up too?

Isn't that demanding that LE use tunnel vision? LE must focus on and resolve the TB case in exclusion to the other two cases? Why should LE not investigate DM and all of his activities and lay charges as appropriate? Why does SB have to wait for three or more trials to conclude? The only ones SB would care about are the two where DM, MS and CN face charges re: TB, and WM's trial which will tell her how much money to sue DM for.




JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

They wouldn't need to disclose information about LB or WM's cases, only what pertains to TB's case.

PDF's aren't piles of papers. Your link says"Briefs........can be automatically created in electronic format that is easy to distribute...."

JMO

Yes, I know what I wrote. Loads of PDFs, how are you going to organize that in a meaningful way?

 

[Tamarind]

Well there are still 16 months between WM's death and the charge against DM but anyway...

I guess the year's difference you see then comes from the fact that a year-long investigation happened after the TB charges but before the WM and LB charges. DM has already had lawyers arguing his position so it is not as if his hands have been tied all this time.

I don't buy the argument that pre-trial motions, hearings, or any other type of inquisition are not part of the trial.



Huh? The trial process has begun, it is rolling, the B family shows up for every session as they said they would.

How long should it have taken to investigate the TB case - 6 weeks? You certainly don't seem to think the complex science - e.g., charred remains, possibly degraded DNA - was any kind of hurdle. TB's remains were returned to SB the week before June 15. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/15/tim_bosma_comes_home_heartbreakingly_in_a_small_box.html Should they have closed the case then? How long is an appropriate amount of time to investigate multiple crime scenes over multiple jurisdictions? Two weeks? A week?



Isn't that demanding that LE use tunnel vision? LE must focus on and resolve the TB case in exclusion to the other two cases? Why should LE not investigate DM and all of his activities and lay charges as appropriate? Why does SB have to wait for three or more trials to conclude? The only ones SB would care about are the two where DM, MS and CN face charges re: TB, and WM's trial which will tell her how much money to sue DM for.




JMO

I dont see that LE resolves cases, they usually put together a case and put what they think is good enough for evidence, even the pieces that are speculative usually get thrown in the mix.

WM case is nothing to do with SB. Her concern is with her husbands case IMO.

She can sue but that doesn't mean she will get much. She wouldn't be entitled to anything from an incorporated business(es) IMO, even if DM is a murderer, which I personally doubt. Lawsuits are time consuming and with no guaranteed outcome. She seems to want to focus on her daughter more than pursue money that she may not get. JMO

If a case for right to a speedy trial were to commence, they would be considering : Crown delay, Institutional delay. Defense delay ( defense: which I have not seen any sign of FWIW) It will be precisely drawn out in days. Each day will be accounted for, and each day will be determined to have been the delay of each player: Crown. Defense. Institution (Court) Certain times (expected time frames) have already been determined by precedent to be acceptable, anything other than that will be allocated. If more delay than is acceptable is attributed to Crown or unnecessary Institutional delays, then the case will be considered unconstitutional.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I dont see that LE resolves cases, they usually put together a case and put what they think is good enough for evidence, even the pieces that are speculative usually get thrown in the mix.

WM case is nothing to do with SB. Her concern is with her husbands case IMO.

She can sue but that doesn't mean she will get much. She wouldn't be entitled to anything from an incorporated business(es) IMO, even if DM is a murderer, which I personally doubt. Lawsuits are time consuming and with no guaranteed outcome. She seems to want to focus on her daughter more than pursue money that she may not get. JMO

If a case for right to a speedy trial were to commence, they would be considering : Crown delay, Institutional delay. Defense delay ( defense: which I have not seen any sign of FWIW) It will be precisely drawn out in days. Each day will be accounted for, and each day will be determined to have been the delay of each player: Crown. Defense. Institution (Court) Certain times (expected time frames) have already been determined by precedent to be acceptable, anything other than that will be allocated. If more delay than is acceptable is attributed to Crown or unnecessary Institutional delays, then the case will be considered unconstitutional.

Well this 4-month delay is directly attributable to the defense:

The trial for the two men was expected to begin this fall, but is now scheduled for January next year.

Pretrial motions in the case will be heard this September, according to a lawyer who has been representing Millard.

Deepak Paradkar said he was still in the process of being retained, so additional time was required to prepare motions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...killing-postponed-until-2016/article23195707/

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well there are still 16 months between WM's death and the charge against DM but anyway...

I guess the year's difference you see then comes from the fact that a year-long investigation happened after the TB charges but before the WM and LB charges. DM has already had lawyers arguing his position so it is not as if his hands have been tied all this time.

Sorry, I changed that back. Must have attached the wrong file.

The years difference that I see is from the date charged to the date of trial. We don't know when WM and LB's will be yet, but it is supposed to follow shortly after the preliminary hearings. If those dates as reported are really for the preliminary hearings, I doubt they will be waiting another year or more after that for the actual trials. In the case of WM, the trial would have to be still another 11 months after the preliminary hearing to match TB's case, 15 months after the preliminary hearing for LB's case. JMO

Huh? The trial process has begun, it is rolling, the B family shows up for every session as they said they would.

Yes, the process has finally begun, but not the trial.

How long should it have taken to investigate the TB case - 6 weeks? You certainly don't seem to think the complex science - e.g., charred remains, possibly degraded DNA - was any kind of hurdle. TB's remains were returned to SB the week before June 15. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...small_box.html Should they have closed the case then? How long is an appropriate amount of time to investigate multiple crime scenes over multiple jurisdictions? Two weeks? A week?

Once again, they should not need to finish investigating two other crimes in a different jurisdiction before they can proceed with the first one he was charged with. Just because they are still investigating links to other possible crimes, doesn't mean they don't have all the evidence for the first one. JMO

Isn't that demanding that LE use tunnel vision? LE must focus on and resolve the TB case in exclusion to the other two cases? Why should LE not investigate DM and all of his activities and lay charges as appropriate?

Not at all. Hamilton is heading the TB investigation. Toronto is heading the LB and WM cases. Why would those working on TB's case have to exclude the other two cases in order to finish up theirs?

Why does SB have to wait for three or more trials to conclude? The only ones SB would care about are the two where DM, MS and CN face charges re: TB, and WM's trial which will tell her how much money to sue DM for.

I didn't say she had to wait for the other trials to conclude. I said it wasn't fair to her that she had to wait for them to investigate the other two alleged crimes before TB's case could proceed to trial. Maybe she doesn't care about the others, maybe she does, but I'm sure she would like to be able to put the one that affected her behind her. If she is planning to sue, I doubt any trial will tell her how much to sue for, though I do see what you're getting at. Somehow I don't picture SB eagerly waiting for the WM trial to see how much money she can get.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes, I know what I wrote. Loads of PDFs, how are you going to organize that in a meaningful way?

I know what you wrote too.

DM's lawyers OTOH are going to have to accept a good old fashioned pile of paper, and try to make sense of that, snap.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well this 4-month delay is directly attributable to the defense:



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...killing-postponed-until-2016/article23195707/

That was in February 2015. Who was the first 21 months delay up to that point attributable to?

 

[swedie]

Speaking of SB, how did I miss this interview from a year ago done during a golf tourney to raise money for Tim's Tribute?! Unfortunately the other CBC video is no longer available. My point being is IIRC SB said during that interview TB did not know the accused. In this interview she is very confident when she said "there are two men accused".

She's a beautiful soul inside and out and I have to believe her and Tim were very much in love, very close and had the type of marriage where they shared every thought, every decision, every dream, everything. She states in this interview how superb he was at this trade/business. If there was any connection between TB and the accused prior to May 6, 2013, SB would definitely have known. There was nothing underhanded or illegal going on on Tim's part and LE have also said likewise. MOO.

Kavanagh said Bosma and Millard had “no connection whatsoever” before May 6.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/15/tim_bosma_murder_man_was_targeted_police_say.html

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Toronto/ID/2462779223/

 

[swedie]

I dont see that LE resolves cases, they usually put together a case and put what they think is good enough for evidence, even the pieces that are speculative usually get thrown in the mix.

WM case is nothing to do with SB. Her concern is with her husbands case IMO.

She can sue but that doesn't mean she will get much. She wouldn't be entitled to anything from an incorporated business(es) IMO, even if DM is a murderer, which I personally doubt. Lawsuits are time consuming and with no guaranteed outcome. She seems to want to focus on her daughter more than pursue money that she may not get. JMO

If a case for right to a speedy trial were to commence, they would be considering : Crown delay, Institutional delay. Defense delay ( defense: which I have not seen any sign of FWIW) It will be precisely drawn out in days. Each day will be accounted for, and each day will be determined to have been the delay of each player: Crown. Defense. Institution (Court) Certain times (expected time frames) have already been determined by precedent to be acceptable, anything other than that will be allocated. If more delay than is acceptable is attributed to Crown or unnecessary Institutional delays, then the case will be considered unconstitutional.

BBM - What makes you so sure of your statement? Yes I realized you said IMO, but again you seem pretty convinced SB will not be entitled to financial compensation from WM's estate. Do you feel the same about LB's parents? I would think they will file a wrongful death suit also, don't you? And all victims rightful so. They are entitled, that's why we have these laws in Canada eh. WM's estate money very well could be used to pay off the victims of DM's murders. Actually I see WM's estate going through DM's name as it should have had he not committed these three murders, the courts may see to it his inherited estate money pays off the victims, pays all legal fees and court costs and if there is anything left over, it will then go to WM's next of kin other then DM. Just because someone states something in their will, doesn't mean the government or judicial system cannot and will not intervene.

Again, much debate has been made as to whether there will be any monies to be had from anywhere to do with DM. DM may have just got himself a legal aid lawyer for all we know. Could it be because WM's estate has been frozen until after the verdict on WM's murder trial comes out? DM's own money is long gone, bye bye to DP? Maybe this is part of the reason behind having WM's trial first? The courts need that verdict to see that WM's estate money falls into the right hands. ALL MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

Well this 4-month delay is directly attributable to the defense:



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...killing-postponed-until-2016/article23195707/

There is not usually any time delay for retaining counsel as the court dates are already set and the accused will be showing for hearings. So long as a representative or self ( in the case of someone there for themself) is present to obtain next court date then no time is lost.

If a motion needs to be prepared it can be prepared fairly quickly IMO. There havent been too many of those from what I have read.

 

[Tamarind]

BBM - What makes you so sure of your statement? Yes I realized you said IMO, but again you seem pretty convinced SB will not be entitled to financial compensation from WM's estate. Do you feel the same about LB's parents? I would think they will file a wrongful death suit also, don't you? And all victims rightful so. They are entitled, that's why we have these laws in Canada eh. WM's estate money very well could be used to pay off the victims of DM's murders. Actually I see WM's estate going through DM's name as it should have had he not committed these three murders, the courts may see to it his inherited estate money pays off the victims, pays all legal fees and court costs and if there is anything left over, it will then go to WM's next of kin other then DM. Just because someone states something in their will, doesn't mean the government or judicial system cannot and will not intervene.

Again, much debate has been made as to whether there will be any monies to be had from anywhere to do with DM. DM may have just got himself a legal aid lawyer for all we know. Could it be because WM's estate has been frozen until after the verdict on WM's murder trial comes out? DM's own money is long gone, bye bye to DP? Maybe this is part of the reason behind having WM's trial first? The courts need that verdict to see that WM's estate money falls into the right hands. ALL MOO.

I am saying the incorporated businesses are not open for SB to sue IMO. If she wanted to sue DM IF he is guilty, she can. What I am saying is she may not get much. Why is it so important for her to sue? Surely she really wants to find the killer and have her husbands murder avenged. Not all people feel the need to go after money as a way to feel better about putting things to rights. Many people are in poverty when their partner is taken and they are left to raise their child (ren). I know of two such children actually in S W Ontario whose fathers were killed., ones father was gunned down and anothers was stabbed during a robbery just this year. These children are being raised by their mothers, mothers who have not sued the assailants. Lovely children who don't have much, they each live in small rented town houses, and are doing fine, but they don't have much and neither do their mothers.

So I am interested why there is a focus on suing someone. Is it because DM is rich? Some have posted that his money may be gone by now, all frittered away on lawyers and bills, so I am just wondering why this is a focal point, and why it is amusing if you don't mind me asking? TIA

Personally I dont think governments should be interfering in anything. People have wishes and those wishes should be carried out. JMO. And no I dont think LB's parents will file a lawsuit, because I dont believe DM killed her. I don't think her family will sue when no body is yet found and no proven proof is evident IMO. I myself would not sue in this situation for that very reason.

If monies had been frozen they would not have been able to have been transferred. This is about a murder not about money. As with the two murders I mentioned, never was there a focus on money like there seems to be with the TB event. Most people just want to know the truth and seek justice for the murderer. IMO MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

I am saying the incorporated businesses are not open for SB to sue IMO

....

So I am interested why there is a focus on suing someone

...

Most people just want to know the truth and seek justice for the murderer. IMO MOO

<rsbm>

There is nothing to exempt an incorporated business from being included in a civil suit and having a percentage of blame apportioned to it (i.e. if it can be held responsible in some way for the actions of its employees or for a lack of oversight in its operations). Not saying this is the case, but for example, if it could be proved that the theft of Tim's truck was in relation to an auto theft ring that was being operated out of the hangar owned by Millard Air, the company could be considered responsible for allowing an illegal activity to take place within its premises. Even if the company did not have knowledge of such an operation, it could be argued that they should have known what the daily activities were that were taking place at that location. If the incinerator purchased by the company was used to dispose of a body and was at any time located within the company premises with no known relation to the operation of the daily activities ... etc etc.

Civil cases that deal with civil wrongs are handled in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice and as such are part of the justice system. While it is a criminal offence to murder someone, it is also a civil wrong to have a loved one murdered, forever removing them from meaningful contribution to your life (whether pain and suffering due to loss, lack of future financial contribution, etc). To a plaintiff, civil cases aren't necessarily about the almighty dollar although a financial award is the only justice that civil courts can order. Part of seeking justice is seeking all justice that is available to those wronged (thus criminal cases that result in civil cases of wrongful death). Although an award for civil wrong is in dollars, the award provides the plaintiff with the satisfaction of holding a respondent accountable to the nth degree of the law, by whatever means a court of justice can mete out.

 

[swedie]

And why not the incorporated business?

You're right, SB may not get much if she sues but she may also get plenty, and rightfully so. Example: Had her and Tim lived to be a ripe old age and remained together, she would be entitled to any income he would have contributed to the household which would also include the cost of raising their daughter. SB no longer has someone to help her pay for that beautiful home Tim built for his family and was looking forward to sharing for years to come. SB and hers and Tim's daughter should not be forced to move out of their home because she can no longer afford to pay the mortgage and bills, all because some sicko decided he wanted to murder people.

Personally I believe the government should and will interfere. BTW that is your friends' choice that they don't ask for assistance. People who lose a close family member such as a spouse, child or parent are entitled to government benefits and they also have the right to sue the guilty. Perhaps in your friends' cases, as the saying goes "you can't get blood from a stone" or cases of self defence... :dunno: No offence intended but hopefully you will never lose a person dear to you in such a horrendous fashion, that way you will never know the true hardships, emotionally, physically, financially and more which these victims face every day. Then again, if it did happens to you, I assume you will likely have an attitude change.

There are all kinds of assistance for people who need it and just not from the government. There are some where funding is for other purposes other then loss of a loved one. Something which is fairly new, IIRC it was launched in 2010 was the Go fund me fundraising. There are other supports also. Now we have Tim's Tribute started by SB in honour of Tim to assist other victims in similar situations as herself. I can see if SB does sue and wins, I won't be a bit surprised if she puts a chunk of that money into Tim's Tribute account to help other victims. That is just the type of person she is.

So IYO people should not rely on assistance from fundraisers such as the Canadian Cancer Society, Red Cross, Heart and Stroke etc.? There is even charities who financially assist imprisoned people. When you really think about it, these groups are made up of taxpayers dollars, just as our government, same as our judicial system and legal aid. With that in mind, whoever goes through the judicial system such as DM, MS and LB, if they are relying on legal aid assistance, it's on yours, mine and everyone else's tax dollars paying their way. Should SB have to pay the lawyers' fees and court costs for the people accused (and perhaps guilty) of murdering or assisting the person who murdered her husband? Sometimes it help to step out of ones shoes and into someone else's to get a better idea of how we would handle some of life's ordeals. But that also is very difficult to do because it's impossible to know or conjure such thoughts in these situations.

I hope all victims are greatly compensated for the loss of their loved ones due to someone's evilness and selfishness.

******** is a crowdfunding platform that allows people to raise money for events ranging from life events such as celebrations and graduations to challenging circumstances like accidents and illnesses.[2][3] The company is based in San Diego, California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/********