Crime Scene Photos #3 ***WARNING - GRAPHIC DISCUSSION***

[snow_walker]

I have to make a real distinction in my mind between that living breathing, playful little girl that was Caylee, and the remains.
The remains in my mind are sort of like a broken toy, with no real connection to that beautiful child. I know that is a mental disconnect, but it is necessary in order for me to think about the whole matter at all. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was being disrespectful in anyway to her memory, by anything I might say, or by the way I phrase things when discussing this site where the remains were found. Of course I want to phrase things as tactfully as I can, but sometimes clear unequivical speech is necessary.
I think this is true of all of us.

That said, I wonder where in the area they photographed those footprints or tire tracks or whatever they were? I keep feeling that the remains were disturbed by human intervention, but can't figure out exactly why I feel that way. A combination of the bags too close to the road.. parts of the body seem to have been moved not by water.. (possibly by animals) .. the balloon and blanket in an odd spot..generally speaking this crime scene just does not look right.

 

[fortytwo]

The effects of the ebb and flow of water levels, though interesting to follow, are likely to be overriden by the effects of hurricaine (thingy). That was strong enough to move complete latino reporters several feet in an instant. high winds, localized twisters etc could lift and transport plastic, cardboard and cloth, if not whole bags of bodies over the top of terrain and underbrush?
Bring back the kitties!

I like the kitties myself. In fact your's was a keeper. I just wish I could join you folks and be able to see them as easily.

I do know that "localized" is a very operant word when discussing storm damage. In many ways that spot was very sheltered from anything but flooding. We've got sleuthers who could help us get a feel for how bad Tropical Storm Fay was in that area. I hope they chime in.

 

[fortytwo]

BTW...didn't intend to suggest using pics to recreate the drainage history was anything less than brilliant...only that there prolly wasn't a Johnny-on-the-spot inspector watchin' that retention pond w/ ready-reference photos...darn it.

...and I'm prolly bein' too between the lines about it, but, my heart is dictating that my brain let water transport trump scavenger transport...whilst my brain realizes there is no reason to give one more credence than the other. "Comfortably numb" you might say.

I wasn't suggesting heroic construction workers braving the storm for humanity like tv news reporters, we're smarter than that. But as soon as the wind died down from Fran and Floyd I was on the way to the jobsite (with a chainsaw in the back of the truck.)

Don't start backpedaling on me now. I had pretty much discounted anything but animal transport before you chimed in. Now I got a fence to sit on.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I wasn't suggesting heroic construction workers braving the storm for humanity like tv news reporters, we're smarter than that. But as soon as the wind died down from Fran and Floyd I was on the way to the jobsite (with a chainsaw in the back of the truck.)

Don't start backpedaling on me now. I had pretty much discounted anything but animal transport before you chimed in. Now I got a fence to sit on.

Oh, alright, it was only a matter of time before someone whipped out the ole' Swamp Gas Eruption Theory anyway

However, when one considers the effect of microscopic kittens living largely on a diet of, say, discarded Taco Bell burritos one might be fooled by a pseudo-SGE-event. Anyone get ambient methane measurements in the area? Any locals up for it?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Sadly that looks like it confirms poor kiity's last moments.

Seriously why not continue the topography/water levels in a new thread?

Well...we prolly performed the obligatory ther_beatingA_Dead on topography by now...

Narrator, "And now...reprising the role of lazy Websleuth asking questions that were prolly answered 1 to 2 pages previously - BondJamesBond".

Was it just me, or did the item pictured next to the plastic bags appear to be the Winnie the Pooh blanket moreso than the laundry hamper bag?

Discuss...

 

[Rumpole]

Well...we prolly performed the obligatory ther_beatingA_Dead on topography by now...

Narrator, "And now...reprising the role of lazy Websleuth asking questions that were prolly answered 1 to 2 pages previously - BondJamesBond".

Was it just me, or did the item pictured next to the plastic bags appear to be the Winnie the Pooh blanket moreso than the laundry hamper bag?

Discuss...

The floggin a dead horse is new to me - loved it!!!!

I think that is LAUNDRY BAG complete with wire rim. End of discussion.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Oh, alright, it was only a matter of time before someone whipped out the ole' Swamp Gas Eruption Theory anyway

What? Would you prefer that I call it the Swamp Fart Theory? The theory is so simple and elegant that it's almost entirely contained in the name itself. Swamp Gas Eruption Theory (SGET).... ok you don't need to say any more. The theory's name brings dynamic mental images that don't require any further verbal explanation.

I don't think the CSIs were working with the SGET because they didn't look for any evidence stuck up in the trees.

However, when one considers the effect of microscopic kittens living largely on a diet of, say, discarded Taco Bell burritos one might be fooled by a pseudo-SGE-event. Anyone get ambient methane measurements in the area? Any locals up for it?

Did you stop to think that those kittens might feed on dead rattlesnakes? Those meter readers took away a tender vittle.

Was it just me, or did the item pictured next to the plastic bags appear to be the Winnie the Pooh blanket moreso than the laundry hamper bag?

Well, it seems to have a round wire opening like a Whitney laundry bag. It also appears to be a single color without graphics.

I'm curious if the blanket thing that DC was seen lifting with his poker was actually the pink blanket now in evidence.

 

[suspicious1]

Firstly I normally see "smileys" as passe, someone else's joke, but the floggin a dead horse is new to me - loved it!!!!

I think that is LAUNDRY BAG complete with wire rim. End of discussion.

Yep! That is a laundry bag.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think Fay could have disrupted the remains and caused them to appear the way they did when they were found in spite of the terrain.
Fay hit FL four times, dumping up to 5 feet of water. Fay stayed in FL for almost eight days. Seminole County was hit especially hard (Oviedo, Sanford) which is next door to Orange.
This would explain why things looked so different between Aug. and Dec. if someone had witnessed anything.

I saw first hand what Hugo did in 1989. (Cat. 4)

 

[Theonly1]

IMO, the patterned scattering of bones suggests wholesale movement of body parts (prior to full skeletonization) by agents (animals and/or humans) - not natural forces.

Agreed!

 

[christee]

Well...we prolly performed the obligatory ther_beatingA_Dead on topography by now...

Narrator, "And now...reprising the role of lazy Websleuth asking questions that were prolly answered 1 to 2 pages previously - BondJamesBond".

Was it just me, or did the item pictured next to the plastic bags appear to be the Winnie the Pooh blanket moreso than the laundry hamper bag?

Discuss...

I vote for laundry bag with part of the wire rim laying on top of bag. JMO

BTW-poor horse

 

[christee]

Ok my brain synapses just fired and I had a thought. I've seen the blocks or stones in a couple of pics and I'm just wonderin': Is it possible that the blocks/stones were placed on top of the place where (I don't even like to type the words...)Caylee's remains were buried? Having my own experience with burying pets we would always place a large stone or number of stones to protect the remains from being dug up.

IF this was the case wouldn't this have held the remains under water, if only for a short time, if water level got that high during TS Fay?

 

[Rumpole]

Ok my brain synapses just fired and I had a thought. I've seen the blocks or stones in a couple of pics and I'm just wonderin': Is it possible that the blocks/stones were placed on top of the place where (I don't even like to type the words...)Caylee's remains were buried? Having my own experience with burying pets we would always place a large stone or number of stones to protect the remains from being dug up.

IF this was the case wouldn't this have held the remains under water, if only for a short time, if water level got that high during TS Fay?

Don't think so. Dopey is too lazy to move rocks. I might just concede she could have thrown one on top, but I think she would have been rushed?

 

[christee]

Don't think so. Dopey is too lazy to move rocks. I might just concede she could have thrown one on top, but I think she would have been rushed?

True, True on "dopey" moving rocks (thinking, thinking...now I've a headache)

 

[fortytwo]

Don't think so. Dopey is too lazy to move rocks. I might just concede she could have thrown one on top, but I think she would have been rushed?

I don't think they would have been too easy to pick up, probably partly buried. They definitely would have been "icky", and that would have stopped her for sure..

 

[Rumpole]

I don't think they would have been too easy to pick up, probably partly buried. They definitely would have been "icky", and that would have stopped her for sure..

I was covering all bases. Allowing for her to have brought one non-icky rock from home. All of it unlikely, but we have to head off(or start) the next bombshell.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't recall hearing that the remains were ever buried. I think they were just placed in the woods in those bags.

 

[christee]

Just had a conversation with my son who was living in Orlando when Fay came through. He remembers it rained alot for 2-3 days and it took 1-2 days for the water in low lying areas to go down. I think it is is possible that Fay and/or other storms "dilsodged" the bags and/or other items and moved them around. Probably not far.

Oh, would CA bury a dead pet but not her own child?

Just a thought

 

[Rumpole]

I don't recall hearing that the remains were ever buried. I think they were just placed in the woods in those bags.

fortytwo was talking about the large rocks being partially buried.

 

[christee]

fortytwo was talking about the large rocks being partially buried.

I can see Fay as one big washing machine, swishing everything around, what a mess!