Crystal S., Haleigh's mother #5

[texasmommy39]

If, and that's a very big IF, she received a contempt order that day.....do you think she could have planned this whole thing out in an hour or two? How in the world could she have arranged all this and secreted Haleigh for this long?

It seems like you are basing your theory on Crystal receiving a notice of contempt that same day, because RC got one, he says. and Furthermore, you believe she arranged a kidnapping plot immediately and carried it out within hours. That is very hard to digest.

No I have been around for awhile and have posted my theory many times and do not repeat it word for word in every post, but, will say; no, she received notice days before and no, IMO this had a little more planning behind it than 24hrs. Family, my dear is how she has hid her dirty hands, blood is thicker than water. I still am not so sure if this family would get rid of HaLeigh to get away with the crime so... she may be alive and well cared for and hidden as LE believes or she is ..... and has been hidden.

 

[texasmommy39]

No need to worry about college. In their income level, they won't have to fund any of it.

The state needs to take control of all the monies and separate what they have spent and divide it up. The state has most likely been the main support of the children. I have no doubt Haleigh get a SSD check and she is covered by medicaid. RC has probably applied for food stamps and help when he out of work. His family and Crystal's family have maybe payed for clothing and toys.

It most likely goes to the state anyway because they may have been providing more than either of the two parents.

Whisper, I hope you are never in need of a dollar from someone else or any agency that provides assistance. Are you a struggeling single parent with no financial help from another parent providing for two children?

 

[CeeKer]

No need to worry about college. In their income level, they won't have to fund any of it.

The state needs to take control of all the monies and separate what they have spent and divide it up. The state has most likely been the main support of the children. I have no doubt Haleigh get a SSD check and she is covered by medicaid. RC has probably applied for food stamps and help when he out of work. His family and Crystal's family have maybe payed for clothing and toys.

It most likely goes to the state anyway because they may have been providing more than either of the two parents.

Although I don't have enough facts to comment on your assumptions, assume for a minute you are correct about the money going to the state. As a taxpayer wouldn't you prefer the state be reimbursed instead of just letting the non-custodial parent "off the hook"???

 

[CeeKer]

If you realize that danger is lurking for the other child due to poor judgement of the father, you would also want to remove that child from the eyes of the teenager who may have let this happen. Put your place in the mother's shoes, please. She wanted Jr out of there after they lost Haleigh....don't know if lost is the word...she may have been thinking much worse.

I have said before that if I were in Crystal's shoes, I probably would have wanted to keep my other child close and sought custody "just because". At first I didn't blame her for wanting custody. However, she went on TV with Jr. sitting in her lap eating chips, looking at the camera, as she prodded him to agree with her that he saw a man in black take Sissy. As a mother, I could not reconcile that with a mother who truly had the child's best interest at heart. Then she hired KP to make a public spectacle of what could have and should have been a private affair between the two families and DCF.

I don't blame Crystal for seeking custody, it was the way she went about it that makes me question her motives and judgment and everything else about her after that point.

 

[Whisperer]

As far as I know, once custody awarded, there is no way to get it back barring the custodial parent commiting an abuse so horrendous the child is hopitalized or worse.

Secondly, I have read the way this custody came about. Ron stole the kids, moved in with him mommy and filed. So whoever has the kids at the time can file if their isn't a standing order already in place. If you read both sets of papers, it is pretty clear the judge did not make a good decision. Since the children at the moment were in a home with a grandparent and he had a job, custody was granted. No research was done on his personal ability to parent or his background. His mother was listed as the one who would provide care and also an aunt. He had just started a job and, of course, the job ended after he got the paperwork. He also had an attorney and was prepared with affidavits that he did side jobs. Affidavits are pieces of paper can handwrite and notarize. They do not mean that the person was actually employed....some are ...most aren't.

The judge ignored Crystals words that the children could be in harm's way, considering his lifestyle and his record. The judge did not give any credence to it.

I would say she had given up hope of them ever being given back to her and had to proceed with her life, and that is what she did. When she got an attorney, she again had hope that jr would be returned but NO, order stands and will always stand unless RC does something that is a felony to the child or becomes incapacitated. This was probably explained to her, but she took a chance hoping an attorney could pull it off. At his time RC got an attorney and there was not a prayer the judge would reverse. He had to follow the law....there was no horrendous abuse, child remains where the court originally stated. Court does not like to and will not reverse an order. It is almost impossible.

RC knows his way around the law and uses it much better than Crystal....he seems to get out of all things processed against him. He will sue you in a heartbeat, if he thinks you are against him, IMO.

 

[Whisperer]

Cee, Cee...as far as private affair, if you go back and watch RC interviews, he brings up the issue first, in almost every case.

I just watched an one where he was asked about M and why she can't explain. He didn't know, he then changed the subject and added the whole talk of a custody situation and how unfair it is and takes away from finding Haleigh.

 

[atherella]

As far as I know, once custody awarded, there is no way to get it back barring the custodial parent commiting an abuse so horrendous the child is hopitalized or worse.

Substantial change of circumstances is the standard in order to get a change of custody. Crystal absolutely had grounds to fight for custody of Junior given that HaLeigh disappeared. She chose not to fight for custody once DCF handed down their ruling. Rather, Crystal and Ron modified the original custody agreement.

Secondly, I have read the way this custody came about. Ron stole the kids, moved in with him mommy and filed. So whoever has the kids at the time can file if their isn't a standing order already in place. If you read both sets of papers, it is pretty clear the judge did not make a good decision. Since the children at the moment were in a home with a grandparent and he had a job, custody was granted. No research was done on his personal ability to parent or his background. His mother was listed as the one who would provide care and also an aunt. He had just started a job and, of course, the job ended after he got the paperwork. He also had an attorney and was prepared with affidavits that he did side jobs. Affidavits are pieces of paper can handwrite and notarize. They do not mean that the person was actually employed....some are ...most aren't.

There was not only ONE judge that ruled in this case. If you have access to ALL the custody documents, there were several judges that reviewed this case.

Ron did NOT have an attorney when this case went in for its hearing. Can you provide some proof of that, please? Neither Ron nor Crystal originally had an attorney.

HOWEVER... after the case was decided and a ruling was in place granting Ron custody - CRYSTAL was the ONLY person that had an attorney. Crystal retained Charles Behm, Esquire to file the "Motion for Rehearing and Objection to Findings of Magistrate" in January of 2006. Ron still had no attorney at that time.

Just to be clear, judges do not take into account affidavits because the other party does not get a chance to question that person. You'll see that from reading the transcript. It is considered hearsay.

The judge ignored Crystals words that the children could be in harm's way, considering his lifestyle and his record. The judge did not give any credence to it.

The judge asked Crystal if she had any witnesses that could testify first hand to any of these issues. Crystal had none. Judges do not admit hearsay testimony. There are rules that must be followed in Court. Crystal knew she was going to Court for a custody hearing - why wasn't she prepared?

I would say she had given up hope of them ever being given back to her and had to proceed with her life, and that is what she did. When she got an attorney, she again had hope that jr would be returned but NO, order stands and will always stand unless RC does something that is a felony to the child or becomes incapacitated. This was probably explained to her, but she took a chance hoping an attorney could pull it off. At his time RC got an attorney and there was not a prayer the judge would reverse. He had to follow the law....there was no horrendous abuse, child remains where the court originally stated. Court does not like to and will not reverse an order. It is almost impossible.

RC knows his way around the law and uses it much better than Crystal....he seems to get out of all things processed against him. He will sue you in a heartbeat, if he thinks you are against him, IMO.

There is ALWAYS a chance to get a custody ruling overturned. ALWAYS.

I'm sorry... if I did not have custody of MY child and I felt my kids were living in an abusive environment, I would NEVER move almost 2 hours away. I would stay and FIGHT for my children.

However, at the start of this case, Crystal said Ron would never hurt his kids. I believe her when she said that. If she really believed that Ron was hurting those babies, I don't believe she would have left them with him and moved away. What mother would do that?

 

[Whisperer]

Thank you for the information you provided.

Well, To try and put myself in her place .. I think if I knew the mountain I had to climb to get my kids back...I would not be able to do it. Without a lot of money and hoping the other didn't have an attorney, I would have to move on myself.

One point that was overlooked is Ron stole those kids, and then went to court...Not fair...not right.

I do not know what CS knew about M. Bet she didn't know she was 16...even if she did, nothing she could do. Then maybe when she found out, she threatened and RC pushed for the wedding?

I may even entertain MO, that in no way, not ever would RC consider paying support. He may have been told that was coming and took the kids. Once they were in his possession, the battle was won.

 

[atherella]

Thank you for the information you provided.

Well, To try and put myself in her place .. I think if I knew the mountain I had to climb to get my kids back...I would not be able to do it. Without a lot of money and hoping the other didn't have an attorney, I would have to move on myself.

One point that was overlooked is Ron stole those kids, and then went to court...Not fair...not right.

I do not know what CS knew about M. Bet she didn't know she was 16...even if she did, nothing she could do. Then maybe when she found out, she threatened and RC pushed for the wedding?

I may even entertain MO, that in no way, not ever would RC consider paying support. He may have been told that was coming and took the kids. Once they were in his possession, the battle was won.

BBM

LOL -- I didn't respond to the "stealing" of the children because I was trying not to bicker. I'm sorry that I just cannot agree with that. I strongly believe that men and women have equal rights to their children. Ron is the father of those children, and therefore, he has rights to them afforded to him under the law.

Crystal allowed Ron to take Jr & HaLeigh to Texas where he was gone for 18 days. When he got home, he was concerned for the children's safety and filed for custody. Part of the court transcript (where Ron testifies) says that Crystal was not in contact with the kids for 3-4 weeks upon his return from Texas.

In fairness - when Crystal testifies, she states that she was in contact with Ron and the children and that she visited them.

The judge did ask Crystal if she ever demanded that Ron return the children to her. Her answer:

Ms Sheffield: I couldn't really demand, because I mean I couldn't make him bring them back, but I asked him to, and I told him to.

Magistrate Prugh: Did you undertake any Court actions to require that?

Ms Sheffield: No

Back to your first sentence for one sec -- if you knew the mountain you would have to climb to get your children back, you don't know if you would be able to do it?

Isn't that a parent's job? To fight til the ends of the earth for his or her children? I don't know about anyone else here - but I would do anything for my kids. I would throw myself in front of a bullet. I would fight until my last dying breath for my children. I do understand that everyone is different... really, I do. But - once you have children, your life stops being your own, IMO. (And that goes for Ron, too... this goes for ANY parent, IMO... when you bring a child into the world, you owe that child your very best).

 

[CeeKer]

Cee, Cee...as far as private affair, if you go back and watch RC interviews, he brings up the issue first, in almost every case.

I just watched an one where he was asked about M and why she can't explain. He didn't know, he then changed the subject and added the whole talk of a custody situation and how unfair it is and takes away from finding Haleigh.

I respectfully and totally disagree Whisperer. I have watched everything, often multiple times. I have been here from the beginning providing back up and links. But at this point I'm too worn out to provide links so I will say IRRC and IMO In Ron's first interviews he empatically states this is not about custody and when given the oportunity to trash CS when asked why he has custody he doesn't take the bait. Marie started trashing him. He still won't take the bait to trash CS on Custody and says focus on Haleigh. Marie apologizes. Then it starts all over again with Marie trashing, and Ron fending off reporters comments by saying keep the focus on Haleigh. Then KP comes and all he// breaks loose and CS is on TV saying the exact opposite of what she said in the beginning (example, early on Ron would never hurt Haleigh... with KP by her side well Ron has a temper I don't know maybe.... paraphrasing here). Yes at some point Ron got snarky, but it was quite abit after the assault on HIM from Marie and later KP. Of course, this is all my interpretation of what I saw and realize it's just my opinion.

I have believed from the beginning if RC and CS were left alone without outside interference none of this stuff that distracts us from focusing on Haleigh would have happened. The first couple of weeks CS said a lot of stuff that I totally respected her for. Even cutting off her mother to say "yes we get along" when her mother started to answer "no". That Ron wouldn't hurt Haleigh, he was her heart, and something like.. I can't say anything about Misty being 17 because I was 17 and taking care of a baby.

 

[Whisperer]

Concerning climbing mountains for your children

Ideologically speaking yes, in the real world that standard doesn't hold up. That high standard doesn't apply to everyone because many can't reason like that and are not born with that quality.

Ron and Crystal were/are not mature enough to have learned that theory and either it did not come naturally or there was not enough power or money to make it happen. Ron does have a legal upper hand due to his ability to talk about himself.

If RC had learned fighting for your children in the real meaning of the phrase (not just legally), he would not have had teens with history of abuse and drugs watch his children.

As you say "fight to the ends of the earth" for your children also applies to RC and his reasoning of who is to care for the children he is fighting so hard to save. He obviously doesn't go by the standard you provided and that I also believe in.

 

[mysticrose]

BBM

LOL -- I didn't respond to the "stealing" of the children because I was trying not to bicker. I'm sorry that I just cannot agree with that. I strongly believe that men and women have equal rights to their children. Ron is the father of those children, and therefore, he has rights to them afforded to him under the law.

Crystal allowed Ron to take Jr & HaLeigh to Texas where he was gone for 18 days. When he got home, he was concerned for the children's safety and filed for custody. Part of the court transcript (where Ron testifies) says that Crystal was not in contact with the kids for 3-4 weeks upon his return from Texas.

In fairness - when Crystal testifies, she states that she was in contact with Ron and the children and that she visited them.

The judge did ask Crystal if she ever demanded that Ron return the children to her. Her answer:



Back to your first sentence for one sec -- if you knew the mountain you would have to climb to get your children back, you don't know if you would be able to do it?

Isn't that a parent's job? To fight til the ends of the earth for his or her children? I don't know about anyone else here - but I would do anything for my kids. I would throw myself in front of a bullet. I would fight until my last dying breath for my children. I do understand that everyone is different... really, I do. But - once you have children, your life stops being your own, IMO. (And that goes for Ron, too... this goes for ANY parent, IMO... when you bring a child into the world, you owe that child your very best).

BBM...It is a parents job to fight for their kids but it does take the means.
I was attacked relentlessly through the courts over my son from a man very similar to Ron for over 8 years. Do you know what that cost me? Try upwards of $55,000.00 dollars, and we can say that again $55,000.00! The only reason I could do that is because I had good credit and it all went on credit cards and depleted my savings. Each lawyer I had needed a retainer fee of a min. payment of $2,500 up to $7,000. I do not think that Crystal nor her family have that kind of money that I am aware of.That is what it costs if you want to continue to fight and that is if a Judge doesnt shoot you out of your saddle halfway through. I am still paying to this day and will be unless I win the lottery and I have no savings. He on the other hand spent closer to $100,000.00 because he had an endless supply of money from his mother.
It really does take means like I said so IMO it would not be fair to say that Crystal did not fight hard enough for her kids.
One other thing it is really hard if not next to immpossible to get any court to change custody after it has been put in place. There has to be an extreme change in circumstances in order for a court to even consider it.

 

[Whisperer]

I am not going to get you the links at the moment. I just reviewed them in the past few days. Try the first one when he is asked about why misty cannot get the story straight and llisten to the answer.

How about the times he has responded with "I am the better parent, simple as that"
(smirks, enjoys tooting his own horn)? "I can provide better"..etc.

If he didn't want to steer it towards a custody circus, he would say, "I don't care to talk about that"....yet, somehow, someway he seems to answer. He initiates it, but it is not obvious.
Maybe you missed it because it is thrown in with another answer the interviewer is attempting to get but never does.

He responds to custody questions a heck of alot better than he responds to any questions about his daughter or why misty is confused.

 

[PorcineGranny]

ahem, I just have to throw my two cents worth in here. I don't really understand why several folks are willing to give Misty all the benefit of the doubt that exists and when it applies to Crystal, its different. She was a very young girl also during her relationship with Ron.
I worked in child support for several years albeit in another state. But, I do think I have some insight. I can't prove that Ron was an abuser, I can't prove that Ron is a drug seller.
That as Busylady pointed out to me is a rumor, but looking at the context of what has happened and been documented and then thinking intensely for some time and trying to reason it appears to me that Ronald is defintely an abuser, I don't know that he sells drugs other than what I read and even though he is charged with drug possession, still there are some that emphasize that he cannot possibly be selling them. Afterall, he has
his mother's name tatooed over his heart. I know we are here to find truth and I want
that as much as anyone, but in my experience, it would be foolhardy not to understand
exactly what Ron is. I cannot prove anything but as a wise judge once told me,,it is good to avoid the appearance of evil. Ron and Misty have the appearance of evil. These are my opinions and I hope Haleigh is found soon.

 

[PorcineGranny]

I forgot to add this; When parents are extremely young, they are sometimes confused and frightened about what to do in serious matters in their life. It appears that neither Ron or Crystal had good role models and they struggled in life and in their own ignorance. If perchance Ron had been controlling, abusing mentally or physically, that he had inspired fear at any time in his chosen other, meaning Crystal and she was a very young girl, it does make sense that she might stumble for whatever reason in defending her child from his onslaught, as in giving up. Feelings of hopelessness could have overtaken her. I see this as very probable. So it is within the realm of reason, that not all parents no matter how fiercely they love their children are in a position to defend them especially from another parent they have depended on for food and care.

 

[Whisperer]

PorcineGranny...Thank you for your post. I do not have any thanks buttons for you. I must type it in....It is good to know we have somebody who has knowledge in the system on the board.

 

[Whisperer]

Another thought....if Crystal kidnapped Haleigh, as some think, why do M & R's story still not add up and why did the police say for months, "misty is the key"?

They would have had a clear, concise time line drawn.

 

[mysticrose]

I forgot to add this; When parents are extremely young, they are sometimes confused and frightened about what to do in serious matters in their life. It appears that neither Ron or Crystal had good role models and they struggled in life and in their own ignorance. If perchance Ron had been controlling, abusing mentally or physically, that he had inspired fear at any time in his chosen other, meaning Crystal and she was a very young girl, it does make sense that she might stumble for whatever reason in defending her child from his onslaught, as in giving up. Feelings of hopelessness could have overtaken her. I see this as very probable. So it is within the realm of reason, that not all parents no matter how fiercely they love their children are in a position to defend them especially from another parent they have depended on for food and care.

Thank you for this great post...:clap:I could not agree more...

 

[Busylady]

RC did not steal the children, Crystal gave him permission (even though she know claims he had nothing to do with the children when they were together, and that he was abusive she went ahead and handy her precious children over to him)to take the children. She GAVE him the children. Crystal chose not to fight for her kids, thats on her not RC. Crystal chose not to pay any child support, thats on her not RC. How do you know his job ended as soon as he got the paperwork? The custody review went on for almost 2 years and remained the ruling never changed, based on your comments the only reason the judge gave RC custody in the first place was because he was working - so guess the almost 2 years the custody ruling was being reviewed he was working.

He also DID NOT have an attorney, until after he was awarded custody and Crystal hired an attorney to challenge the custody ruling.

If the affidavits mean nothing and you do not want the judge to consider affidavits, then I guess Johnny's affidavit should be thrown out as well, and that affidavit was the only complaint of any abuse going on in the entire custody file. Crystal never stated RC abused her, Johnny never testified just provided a piece a paper and as you say that paper means nothing.

If the court does not and will not reverse an order, why was KP here then no point in her filing for a change in custody if they never reverse the order?

The judge reviewed the DCF file and the family violence file to aid in his making the ruling. So the safety of the children was taken into account.

As far as I know, once custody awarded, there is no way to get it back barring the custodial parent commiting an abuse so horrendous the child is hopitalized or worse.

Secondly, I have read the way this custody came about. Ron stole the kids, moved in with him mommy and filed. So whoever has the kids at the time can file if their isn't a standing order already in place. If you read both sets of papers, it is pretty clear the judge did not make a good decision. Since the children at the moment were in a home with a grandparent and he had a job, custody was granted. No research was done on his personal ability to parent or his background. His mother was listed as the one who would provide care and also an aunt. He had just started a job and, of course, the job ended after he got the paperwork. He also had an attorney and was prepared with affidavits that he did side jobs. Affidavits are pieces of paper can handwrite and notarize. They do not mean that the person was actually employed....some are ...most aren't.

The judge ignored Crystals words that the children could be in harm's way, considering his lifestyle and his record. The judge did not give any credence to it.

I would say she had given up hope of them ever being given back to her and had to proceed with her life, and that is what she did. When she got an attorney, she again had hope that jr would be returned but NO, order stands and will always stand unless RC does something that is a felony to the child or becomes incapacitated. This was probably explained to her, but she took a chance hoping an attorney could pull it off. At his time RC got an attorney and there was not a prayer the judge would reverse. He had to follow the law....there was no horrendous abuse, child remains where the court originally stated. Court does not like to and will not reverse an order. It is almost impossible.

RC knows his way around the law and uses it much better than Crystal....he seems to get out of all things processed against him. He will sue you in a heartbeat, if he thinks you are against him, IMO.

 

[atherella]

[/B]

BBM...It is a parents job to fight for their kids but it does take the means.
I was attacked relentlessly through the courts over my son from a man very similar to Ron for over 8 years. Do you know what that cost me? Try upwards of $55,000.00 dollars, and we can say that again $55,000.00! The only reason I could do that is because I had good credit and it all went on credit cards and depleted my savings. Each lawyer I had needed a retainer fee of a min. payment of $2,500 up to $7,000. I do not think that Crystal nor her family have that kind of money that I am aware of.That is what it costs if you want to continue to fight and that is if a Judge doesnt shoot you out of your saddle halfway through. I am still paying to this day and will be unless I win the lottery and I have no savings. He on the other hand spent closer to $100,000.00 because he had an endless supply of money from his mother.
It really does take means like I said so IMO it would not be fair to say that Crystal did not fight hard enough for her kids.
One other thing it is really hard if not next to immpossible to get any court to change custody after it has been put in place. There has to be an extreme change in circumstances in order for a court to even consider it.

I do understand how expensive and gut wrenching the process can be. I work in the legal field and have seen some brutal, heart wrenching things over the years.

At the time of Crystal and Ron's original custody hearing - neither one of them had an attorney. After Ron was awarded custody, Crystal DID retain an attorney to file the "Motion for Rehearing and Objection to Findings of Magistrate". Ron didn't have one at that time. I do know that Attorney Behm represented Crystal at least through February 2007. I can't seem to find a date that he withdrew from the case. However, Crystal did have legal representation throughout the hearings in 2006, up until the hearing on 2/13/07 (possibly beyond, I just can't find a withdrawal date).

Fact of the matter is, Crystal did have legal representation back then, and again when HaLeigh went missing she had Kim Picazio. Don't you think HaLeigh going missing is an extreme change of circumstances? I don't know how much more extreme things get.

I do understand that a custody case could NOT be filed while DCF was investigating. DCF had jurisdiction. The DCF case is done and over. The day the DCF case ended - Kim withdrew (was fired?). Don't get me wrong - I'm pleased that Crystal and Ron came to an agreement and hopefully they are going to work together for Junior's sake (and hopefully HaLeigh's if and when she comes home).

To me, when it comes to your kids ... you fight. There are lawyers that do pro bono work. There are legal aid lawyers in every state. It isn't as if either Ron or Crystal have a monetary advantage in this case. IMO... You fight for your children. Always. NO excuses.