CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #64

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@lucegirl, I wanted to ask you for some guidance on the issue of how KM can testify if he himself hasn't been tried for the exact same charges I believe as MT? Do you think he made a statement to LE to get himself out of jail with the proviso that he wouldn't testify in Court? We know that he met with them for 3 hrs after Atty Schoenhorn leaked the photo in his motion back in December iirc.

I just don't see how KM can come to court to testify given his legal situation?

MOO
 
Putting two reference videos from a UK practitioner here as I've been reflecting on Defendants 3 interviews with LE.

I am still stuck on being offered so many opportunities by LE and State Prosecutor and continuing to lie.

Sadly lying seems to be a very complex area of study in psychology and it seems has been removed from the DSM as a standalone diagnosis which means that it bridges into other diagnosis it seems. Complex and multidimensional issue it seems. Great. But knowing a bit of the basics made understanding what seems to carry through all 3 LE interviews a bit easier to understand imo, even if the information doesn't answer the true question of why MT continued to lie when offered a clear path out by LE and the States Atty.



MOO
 
@afitzy

Regarding cell phone seizures …

There is a 2014 U.S. Supreme Court case on the topic - it’s factually different because the situation is a warrantless seizure of phone pursuant to an arrest. But it’s a good read - lots of history about exigent circumstances and how exigency is different when you look at drugs being flushed down the toilet versus a cell phone - a repository for a wealth of personal data. Riley v. California - Harvard Law Review The Supreme Court carved out a niche of considerations regarding exigency and cell phones that place privacy interests as a major competing factor against exigency. There are lots of exceptions - kidnapping of minors for example is per se exigent.

FD arguably consented to a warrantless search because he gave LE the phone and password, at least initially. And at that particular moment - the exigency of Jennifer possibly being alive was more likely than a week later.

I haven’t read the judge’s decision on the granting of motion to suppress MT phone, but I think the privacy issues tipped the scale.

Frustrating - no question about it.
 
@afitzy

I was purely speculating on what may have happened out of court about the laptop.

When I mentioned an “order” - I was thinking along the the lines of a “sidebar” where he may have instructed Counsel as to any further reference about the contempt allegation or the laptop or its contents in front of jury.

I think the issue is squarely on the record - the State addressed it multiple times including its findings as to the content. The judges admonition and verbal order from the bench about conduct in the courtroom regarding contact with jurors, witnesses, and use of devices.

I will look at the Hussey interview. I’ve watched him before and wonder if I’m watching the same trial. Ha!
 
@afitzy

Regarding cell phone seizures …

There is a 2014 U.S. Supreme Court case on the topic - it’s factually different because the situation is a warrantless seizure of phone pursuant to an arrest. But it’s a good read - lots of history about exigent circumstances and how exigency is different when you look at drugs being flushed down the toilet versus a cell phone - a repository for a wealth of personal data. Riley v. California - Harvard Law Review The Supreme Court carved out a niche of considerations regarding exigency and cell phones that place privacy interests as a major competing factor against exigency. There are lots of exceptions - kidnapping of minors for example is per se exigent.

FD arguably consented to a warrantless search because he gave LE the phone and password, at least initially. And at that particular moment - the exigency of Jennifer possibly being alive was more likely than a week later.

I haven’t read the judge’s decision on the granting of motion to suppress MT phone, but I think the privacy issues tipped the scale.

Frustrating - no question about it.
Thanks so much @lucegirl ! Will read the article now. But I will go back and look at MT AA also as iirc she in fact handed her phone to LE at 4Jx and to me it didn't look much different than what happened to FD at NCPD when he handed over his phone and then provided his password to NCPD Officer. In the case of NCPD they went back and got a warrant after seizing the phone and in the case of MT I think Judge R disallowed the cell phone and then we saw the State go back recently (think it was October 2023) with a new search warrant to AT&T for MT 'data' if I understood it correctly as Judge had previously disallowed the phone. But, I admit to being somewhat confused on the difference between the 2 search warrant from the State and the first (seemed like second search warrant provided data as to location but not access to texts and voicemail). It was also confusing as it seems MT and FD and their friends used WhatsApp and I'm not sure the 2nd SW gave access to data from apps.

Im with you on being 'stuck' on the issue of MT lying and ongoing manipulation in the 3 LE interviews. Just wonder if it could be as simple as its the way MT operates always to control and manipulate? But like you said, its stunning to see the behaviour played out for such long periods of time. I can only imagine how LE felt listening to it and even though I laughed my way in horror and discomfort through today's portion of interview 3 as the behaviour was sustained for 2-3 hrs at a pop, I did find it disturbing to see someone not be able to answer a direct question or even show any interest or emotion for a missing mother of 5.

There was just something so 'off' for lack of a better word about the entire 'performance' and it got me wondering if MT is as we all see her in the interviews in everything she does where she might perceive herself to be under threat? Its a bit shocking to watch the interview to tell you truth and after watching it for awhile, I have to say I began to question whether what I was even seeing was real from MT as it simply seemed so off and just not justified behavior or even 'normal' behavior when the questions being asked by LE were largely perfunctory in nature. I found it disturbing to watch and I think so far we have seen over 6 hrs of it or even possibly more!

It was also fascinating to see LE call MT on her what seemed to me aggressive tracking of FD location in their typical days but on the day of the murder there was no such texting or anger at FD by MT (LE used the example of MT sending FD a middle finger emoji if he didn't text her it seems to 'check in'). MT never responded to this line of questioning which didn't surprise me but it put her on notice that LE knew she was lying about not knowing where FD was on the murder date which I thought was well done by LE.

But I just wonder if MT alternates between being super aggressive and controlling and then passively withdrawing? She seems like she almost see saws between the two ways of dealing with FD and I would think it would make for a difficult relationship to say the least. I do wonder if her manipulation even though it was very different from the overtly aggressive control of FD, I wonder if it just could have pushed FD over the edge? Hard to say as I'm not convinced FD valued or cared for MT or felt her important to his long term existence? Just a curious relationship dynamic and I wonder if it had any impact on the couples decision to murder JF? But, it could also be that MT knew that FD had a wandering eye and she alluded to this a little bit with LE but it was subtle. IDK how chronic cheaters do it as it seems like they always have to be watching their partners closely and never can trust them either but the net effect is that it seems to make both partners paranoid too.


MOO
 
@afitzy

I was purely speculating on what may have happened out of court about the laptop.

When I mentioned an “order” - I was thinking along the the lines of a “sidebar” where he may have instructed Counsel as to any further reference about the contempt allegation or the laptop or its contents in front of jury.

I think the issue is squarely on the record - the State addressed it multiple times including its findings as to the content. The judges admonition and verbal order from the bench about conduct in the courtroom regarding contact with jurors, witnesses, and use of devices.

I will look at the Hussey interview. I’ve watched him before and wonder if I’m watching the same trial. Ha!
I'm with you on Hussey but IDK I just enjoy hearing different pov on things and that is why I have been putting his Friday wrap up videos in the thread for folks to look at. Its funny as the announcer from the TV station sometimes can't contain herself with some of his responses too which is a bit amusing to watch as well. What I found interesting though was Hussey saying he isn't seeing conspiracy being proven yet and he seems to be thinking that some kind of split verdict might be what we see where jury 'throws a bone' to the State on the lesser charges. I think though in this case that those lesser charges could bring maybe 10 years depending on sentencing. MT has no time served (just a few days iirc) so she will be gone for awhile. Maybe we will see something more from the State too as they have a few more days I think. MOO
 
@afitzy

I was purely speculating on what may have happened out of court about the laptop.

When I mentioned an “order” - I was thinking along the the lines of a “sidebar” where he may have instructed Counsel as to any further reference about the contempt allegation or the laptop or its contents in front of jury.

I think the issue is squarely on the record - the State addressed it multiple times including its findings as to the content. The judges admonition and verbal order from the bench about conduct in the courtroom regarding contact with jurors, witnesses, and use of devices.

I will look at the Hussey interview. I’ve watched him before and wonder if I’m watching the same trial. Ha!
@lucegirl. Thanks. Don't know any lingo from your world so wanted to make sure I understood what you meant. Thanks for clarifying. Do you think the parties did meet in chambers to discuss the issue? Seems like Judge doesn't even like side bars so just seemed odd that he would have an off the record meeting of parties or could it have been on the record? MOO
 
@lucegirl, I wanted to ask you for some guidance on the issue of how KM can testify if he himself hasn't been tried for the exact same charges I believe as MT? Do you think he made a statement to LE to get himself out of jail with the proviso that he wouldn't testify in Court? We know that he met with them for 3 hrs after Atty Schoenhorn leaked the photo in his motion back in December iirc.

I just don't see how KM can come to court to testify given his legal situation?

MOO
I’m curious about this as well. Could Ken be the male whose DNA they did not reference in the evidence?
 
@afitzy

Hussey is in the “reasonable doubt” camp in terms of whether the State has met its burden of proof. He thinks there is reasonable doubt with respect to:

1) MT’s role in the 5/24 driving madness because it’s consistent with the selling of 80 MS - the cleaning is reasonably innocent and because the house is over 11,000 sq ft - why should we assume she saw FD cleaning up a murder in another part of the house.

My thought is the jury will look at all the evidence. It gets harder to buy the innocent cleaning for an open house story when you look at all the evidence. The State doesn’t have to disprove MT’s cleaning story with video evidence of what she was really doing - they can prove it by impeaching MT’s credibility. She is the only source of the cleaning story, and she is a liar. Why should we the jury accept her story?

2) he thinks the “where there is smoke there is fire” logic isn’t strong enough to overcome beyond a reasonable doubt; he says often jurors believe the defendant committed the crime- but it’s not the same as the State proving it.

He is stirring the circumstantial evidence pot here - many murderers are convicted via circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is not weak evidence. Do not even get me started on this topic. But the smoke/fire not enough example falls very, very flat after the actual smoke we saw today. It is a reasonable inference that where there is smoke there is fire. In fact - can you have smoke without fire? It’s the exact analogy they use in some circumstantial jury instructions - you don’t need proof of the fact that it rained over night if you wake up to puddles. The rain is an inferred fact from the actual fact of the puddles. There is NO innocent explanation for 3 fires over Memorial Day Weekend on the same day Jennifer goes missing, and MT is put at the house during the fires, when she said she was eating lunch with FD. It’s just not rational. When that golden retriever or lab walked across the 1JC driveway during the THIRD fire - I thought “Oh thanks Bubba for activating the motion sensor to make sure the defendant was caught setting a fire and lying about it.”

3) He threw out the Plan B theory - PG is the real co-conspirator. MT was “just sitting in a red truck randomly/innocently. She didn’t pull the seats out. He wasn’t charged. She didn’t get an immunity deal.” Weak IMO!

3) he did agree with the judge that there is enough evidence of a murder such that the ME testimony wouldn’t add much - but is happy to throw that bone in the mix because it only relates to FD.

Other Weak Comments:

He hinted the State was motivated to go after MT because they were so invested with the case and FD’s suicide made it necessary for them to go after MT.

If she really knew anything, or something, so would have provided the information. She wouldn’t risk jail because she is a mom.

Said if he were D Counsel he’d be feeling great going into the weekend. Okay…
 
Oye re Kent M. He has sooooooo much baggage and credibility issues. No matter what he could say he is so easily discredited/impeached. I don’t think the grave digging thing would advance the State’s case since D Counsel will cross-testify the grave was for his wife. I think he would become a very distracting sideshow. Unless he has testimony that goes directly to MT knowledge and involvement that can somehow be corroborated with other evidence.

I have to sleep on this one!
 
Oye re Kent M. He has sooooooo much baggage and credibility issues. No matter what he could say he is so easily discredited/impeached. I don’t think the grave digging thing would advance the State’s case since D Counsel will cross-testify the grave was for his wife. I think he would become a very distracting sideshow. Unless he has testimony that goes directly to MT knowledge and involvement that can somehow be corroborated with other evidence.

I have to sleep on this one!
Why would they leave out Kent Mawhinney’s DNA and test for everyone else?

We really have very few details on what they have on KM except the grave and that he was changing his story in subsequent police interviews. Yet he was initially arrested at gunpoint, and tried to cut off his GPS monitor. Could the state have a really strong case against him from information that was not contained in the AW?
 
Do we think Defence was surprised by the smoke being pointed out?
The videos all would have been in evidence, but I’m thinking defense didn’t see the smoke and thought it was just more Ring doorbell and cars driving with unidentifiable drivers.
I like to think they were surprised.
 
@afitzy

Hussey is in the “reasonable doubt” camp in terms of whether the State has met its burden of proof. He thinks there is reasonable doubt with respect to:

1) MT’s role in the 5/24 driving madness because it’s consistent with the selling of 80 MS - the cleaning is reasonably innocent and because the house is over 11,000 sq ft - why should we assume she saw FD cleaning up a murder in another part of the house.

My thought is the jury will look at all the evidence. It gets harder to buy the innocent cleaning for an open house story when you look at all the evidence. The State doesn’t have to disprove MT’s cleaning story with video evidence of what she was really doing - they can prove it by impeaching MT’s credibility. She is the only source of the cleaning story, and she is a liar. Why should we the jury accept her story?

2) he thinks the “where there is smoke there is fire” logic isn’t strong enough to overcome beyond a reasonable doubt; he says often jurors believe the defendant committed the crime- but it’s not the same as the State proving it.

He is stirring the circumstantial evidence pot here - many murderers are convicted via circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is not weak evidence. Do not even get me started on this topic. But the smoke/fire not enough example falls very, very flat after the actual smoke we saw today. It is a reasonable inference that where there is smoke there is fire. In fact - can you have smoke without fire? It’s the exact analogy they use in some circumstantial jury instructions - you don’t need proof of the fact that it rained over night if you wake up to puddles. The rain is an inferred fact from the actual fact of the puddles. There is NO innocent explanation for 3 fires over Memorial Day Weekend on the same day Jennifer goes missing, and MT is put at the house during the fires, when she said she was eating lunch with FD. It’s just not rational. When that golden retriever or lab walked across the 1JC driveway during the THIRD fire - I thought “Oh thanks Bubba for activating the motion sensor to make sure the defendant was caught setting a fire and lying about it.”

3) He threw out the Plan B theory - PG is the real co-conspirator. MT was “just sitting in a red truck randomly/innocently. She didn’t pull the seats out. He wasn’t charged. She didn’t get an immunity deal.” Weak IMO!

3) he did agree with the judge that there is enough evidence of a murder such that the ME testimony wouldn’t add much - but is happy to throw that bone in the mix because it only relates to FD.

Other Weak Comments:

He hinted the State was motivated to go after MT because they were so invested with the case and FD’s suicide made it necessary for them to go after MT.

If she really knew anything, or something, so would have provided the information. She wouldn’t risk jail because she is a mom.

Said if he were D Counsel he’d be feeling great going into the weekend. Okay…
Thanks much for recap!

On the 5/24 madness I think your phrase is apt. MT has never cleaned before with FD beyond possibly pushing a swiffer around to remove new house dust. Houses are new so why use bleach products? I hope the jury is persuaded that MT story seems implausible based on watching the car parade and the smoke.

Loved the bit about “smoke and fire” as in this case we have a situation with circumstantial evidence of MT in the white Cherokee driving back and forth between the houses and literal fire with pure white smoke coming from the chimneys! I’ve been reading about white smoke and so I truly wonder what they were burning?

Hussey seems to very proudly work very hard imo with his arguments against the State and oddly enough has been suspicious of PG since day 1 of this trial. He is promoting himself so I get it but I do like seeing his reasoning.

Personally I believe there were possibly other FD crimes that PG was being protected from with the immunity agreement but Hussey seemed to believe that the agreement was protecting a guilty party and fixated on the removal of the seats issue. I just didn’t think Hussey understood how crazy FD was on the issue and how PG was afraid of losing his job or his green card. PG explained how he had a non compete (don’t see how this is enforceable but PG was afraid because he has seen FD threaten another Fore worker with it) and would have had to move out of state because of it and he didn’t want to move. I just saw it as going along to get along with when dealing with a crazy nut like FD might be a good strategy (absent being dragged into criminal activity of course)!

Moo
 
Do we think Defence was surprised by the smoke being pointed out?
The videos all would have been in evidence, but I’m thinking defense didn’t see the smoke and thought it was just more Ring doorbell and cars driving with unidentifiable drivers.
I like to think they were surprised.
I don’t think so as atty whine didn’t object over and over on the fact that Atty mcguinnis pointed out the smoke.

That weekend was warm all over CT that year and so a fire made no sense imo.

I think the neighbors golden just might be a hero in this case as he set off motion to first bark at FD getting the mail and then again where we see MT pulling into 4Jx on the burning afternoon on the day of the murder! Pup helps the case!

Moo
 
Why would they leave out Kent Mawhinney’s DNA and test for everyone else?

We really have very few details on what they have on KM except the grave and that he was changing his story in subsequent police interviews. Yet he was initially arrested at gunpoint, and tried to cut off his GPS monitor. Could the state have a really strong case against him from information that was not contained in the AW?
Yes, the KM AW was highly abbreviated vs FD and MT and to date we don’t know why. But his charges have never been modified and he has spent more time in jail than either FD or MT. Moo
 
Oye re Kent M. He has sooooooo much baggage and credibility issues. No matter what he could say he is so easily discredited/impeached. I don’t think the grave digging thing would advance the State’s case since D Counsel will cross-testify the grave was for his wife. I think he would become a very distracting sideshow. Unless he has testimony that goes directly to MT knowledge and involvement that can somehow be corroborated with other evidence.

I have to sleep on this one!
If you want a wild read check out the tragic spousal sexual attack complaint. KM was protected by buddies in his home town PD for years too imo as he abused and then terrorized his now ex wife. Wife spoke for nearly an hr at sentencing and he still got no jail time. Dv advocates were at sentencing and spoke afterwards in outrage at what court did at sentencing.

I do wonder though if the 3 hr km interview was what gave up the details on the car parade? Issue is it just seems logical that another car was in NC but we haven’t seen that and we don’t have much info on the FD 2015 activities or its digital data etc. To me this is a large issue that state hasn’t addressed but perhaps they cannot because it relates to KM?

Moo
 
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