Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #43

[kaen]

This thinking may not be popular here but I think it is worth exploring.

The case against MT and KM will be very important to follow now that Fd is gone. I think with NP out of the picture (spinning the narrative) we will be able to see how much the state has against these two remaining defendants. This could be a great opportunity for either one to disclose where Fd said he placed JFd's body and get a deal (at least, this is what I am hoping for). I could see either one getting a very light sentence for this disclosure. It would make sense on two fronts: 1. JFd's family could bury her and 2. it would cement the fact that Fd killed her and was responsible for her death.

KM has other issues that he will be tried on (ex-wife and crimes committed against her) and his ability to practice law is gone. If he had a drug/alcohol problem, he might get clean, serve his time on other crimes and get his life together. I would be okay with that.

MT's relationship with Fd was certainly bizarre but if she told where JFd was and what happened it would allow her to also move somewhere and move on. I believe she is in this neck deep and is lucky that Fd was caught because I have no doubt she would have been harmed when her usefulness was determined to be at an end. She could spend minimal time in jail in exchange for knowing what happened to JFd.

While I would love for each of them to spend eternity in jail. I just don't think it will happen. They are linked and could probably be found guilty but I hate that it is probable rather than a slam dunk.

 

[Megnut]

SBM

Thank you!

I couldn't hear very well because my dog is lying at my feet chewing on his leg making slobbering noises.

Imo

That's what NP's been doing for months -- making slobbering noises, just with great aplomb.

I daresay, @MsBetsy, I value what your dog has to say more.

We should probably all take a moment to thanks-be-to-God that the squirrel can't talk.

JMO

 

[EAGD]

Questions for the group (and if they have already been asked and answered, my apologies, just reply with the link):

What happens next:
MT and KM are still attending their hearings?
What are the next steps for LE? Do they still pursue MT and KM?
Several days ago Fox news reported that MT was turning on FD (this was reported when we all learned he was in hospital). Have any of you heard similar?
Will LE now unseal all info they have since FD passed?

I have followed the case since the beginning and joined WS shortly after. I typically don't post any questions or comments but I do really appreciate all the perspectives and experience the group brings to the discussion.

It will be great if someone who has expertise in LE, or forensics could weigh in. TY

 

[EAGD]

Questions for the group (and if they have already been asked and answered, my apologies, just reply with the link):

What happens next:
MT and KM are still attending their hearings?
What are the next steps for LE? Do they still pursue MT and KM?
Several days ago Fox news reported that MT was turning on FD (this was reported when we all learned he was in hospital). Have any of you heard similar?
Will LE now unseal all info they have since FD passed?

I have followed the case since the beginning and joined WS shortly after. I typically don't post any questions or comments but I do really appreciate all the perspectives and experience the group brings to the discussion.

It will be great if someone who has expertise in LE, or forensics could weigh in. TY

 

[MsBetsy]

SBM



That's what NP's been doing for months -- making slobbering noises, just with great aplomb.

I daresay, @MsBetsy, I value what your dog has to say more.

We should probably all take a moment to thanks-be-to-God that the squirrel can't talk.

JMO

Ha ha! Right now he is snoring like a freight train. He's a pug so he's quite a noisy creature.

I guess that video was too much for him and it knocked him right out.

 

[Jmoose]

On the Chaz & AJ show 1/29/20 NP said he was at Union Station, Wash D.C. re a client for Alex Jones, when he checked his phone, which had been off for awhile. He found an "overwhelming number of messages relating to it" (FD suicide attempt). Wonder if one of those messages was from FD? Why was FD dealing with the bond issue that a.m. and not his lawyers?

I asked this a few days ago, and someone said “it’s not the lawyer’s responsibility to arrange bail”-but in this kind of case, I believe it is. The lawyer has those kinds of contacts for the large bail amounts, don’t they? This is one of the things I believe contributed to Fd’s suicide.

 

[sleuth66]

Thinking about the timeline going back to Aug-Sept-Oct, and new info that AC had been living at 4JC since September.

Also, end of timeline shows how increasingly desperate the FD/NP team was as FD desecrates memorial and NP resorts to bring into court FB comments. While still blustery, this isn’t a bold “bring it on” tactic but more of a victimization defense, foreshadowing the end.

-LE learned about the KM gun club grave on 8/7. [interviews with KM had been back in June]
-3rd interview with MT on 8/13.
-CSP LE went to Gun club and seriously scoped grave on 8/14. [local PD went there earlier but it was “too hot” that day]
-MT/FD AW2 on 9/5.
-LE searches reservoir behind 4JC 9/12; NO “Bring it on!” Statement
-MT teary court appearance 9/19. [this is likley when FD learns that MT goes off alibi script and confesses she didn’t see him that morning. Remember how FD was grinning while flipping through AW2 in NPs car as they drove away from Bridgeport? Guess he hadn’t gotten to that page yet].
-MSM reports Uhauls, MT moves stuff out of 4JC around 10/11 (reported by HC 10/25 saying “two weeks ago”).
-“Anna” lists 80MS on Airbnb 10/25

Depositions (LA, MT, Giuffria), filings, re Civil case in much of November/December

-civil trial vs Farber first week December
-12/6 MT granted permission to pick up daughter at JFK on 12/13
- 12/21 briefs filing deadline in civil case
-1/2/2020 MM files GAL request for status conference on kids in family court
-1/7/2020 AW3 murder charges, FD in jail
-1/9 FD released on bond, house arrest except for work, religious, medical, and legal appts
-1/22/2020 emergency hearing for stopping at JD memorial, FD house arrest work permission rescinded. NP reads names of FB posters in court.
-1/24 fracas over man “breaking in” to 4JC and recording FD “We know who you Are!”
-1/28 emergency hearing for bail revocation, suicide attempt
-1/30 FD declared dead

 

[afitzy]

Thank you!

Wow, he really does look like a terrified, broken man. If I did not know anything about him I would feel sorry for him.
I bet it was after that when he started seriously thinking about suicide.

I couldn't hear very well because my dog is lying at my feet chewing on his leg making slobbering noises.

But I did hear Norm say that the memorial was less of a memorial and more of a way to taunt his client. Poor Fotis. Always the victim. Seems to me that it is Norm's ridiculous antics that have fueled the public's outrage for Fotis the most. I wonder if FD had any thoughts about that himself.

After all, he didn't exactly thank him for all his hard work in his suicide note. Maybe Pattis failed him, after all.

Imo

@MsBetsy, I think this quote of yours so perfectly captures why I stepped back and said, "WHAT" when Atty. P. blamed the public for what happened to Fd!

You said:
"Seems to me that it is Norm's ridiculous antics that have fueled the public's outrage for Fotis the most. I wonder if FD had any thoughts about that himself".

100% agree.

Atty. P. had spent 7 months whipping social media into a total frenzy and then when it all hit the fan in terms of the loss of presumed innocence, then Atty. P. started 'naming FB names in court' and doing his ridiculous 'shame on you routine'.

Atty. P. had the strategic option of doing what Atty Bowman did for MT which is not speaking to the public (issue though here is that he sadly let his client lie to LE for months, but that is another issue).

Atty. P. didn't take the Atty Bowman route and so created the negatives around his client.

I do hope Atty. P. looks at his role in all of this as there is zero way IMO of disconnecting Atty. P. from any level of involvement and responsibility in the death of Fd. Sure, nobody can predict a suicide but Atty. P. sure seemed to create the perfect storm around a volatile and horrific situation that simply laid the framework for a negative outcome for Fd IMO.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Huh? This is doubletalk. He made it very clear they had nothing to do with it. Without realizing what he was saying he let it be known it was him Alone.

How is it doubletalk? Do you really believe Michelle and KM were not at all involved?

You don't think it's possible that he is just saying that because he is insisting he is innocent himself?

Just because he made it clear does not mean it's the truth.

Imo

 

[NCmom99]

a dozen pages behind -- but what if he's had this plan since May, so he knew the vacuum hose would reach & fit any Suburban, starting with the one in the garage at 69/71 Welles Lane, New Canaan, CT???

But our dear Jennifer fought back to protect her children, instead of surrendering to his control & getting in the Suburban meekly to die?

JMHO YMMV lots of LRR with NP but maybe that's over in the various courtrooms?

***Wow, now this is a new and very interesting thought!!

 

[afitzy]

I asked this a few days ago, and someone said “it’s not the lawyer’s responsibility to arrange bail”-but in this kind of case, I believe it is. The lawyer has those kinds of contacts for the large bail amounts, don’t they? This is one of the things I believe contributed to Fd’s suicide.

@Jmoose, IMO Atty. P. danced all around this issue quite gingerly. BUT, when I saw that his famous PI (not sure if he involved any more) was all over the bond deal then I knew that there was no way Atty. P. wasn't all over the bond deal in one way or another. I believe technically the defendant has to handle the process but with these high level bonds the issues I believe become quite complex and so lawyers are involved to some degree. This time we heard I believe Atty KS saying that 'technical issues' were holding up the bond. Yep, technical issue...Atty. P. knew the situation with Fd finances.

What's fascinating though is that Anna Curry supposedly stepped in to shore up the failing bond issue and that wasn't enough and Palmetto sought to escape. I do think the thing that might have damned the Palmetto assistance was the Atty. P. comment about 'title irregularities' etc. My guess is that Palmetto had no interest in tangling with Atty. P. or his ongoing expensive forays into court with poor results and so they simply wanted to push the eject button on the whole thing and leave. I still don't get why this bond issue was fully resolved before Fd died. The issue was left hanging in Court as probably all the main players knew that Fd wouldn't live to get back to Court ever. Don't get this at all, but maybe it was because they couldn't get testimony from Fd and he set up the bond? IDK.

But, I think one of the best recent speculations here was that the State (who I've been highly critical of allowing this last bond to begin with given what they know about Fd finances) allowed the fraudulent bond to go through so that they could watch all the banking activity happening as it was clear that both Anna Curry, Atty. P. PI, and Andreas were being closely watched by any number of authorities both State and Federal.

The State got a lot of info from that last Fd bond and flushed out Anna Curry too. I hope we keep watching the judicial website to see what if any charges are brought against Anna Curry and Andreas Tout and possibly his brother too.

MOO

 

[sleuth66]

But why would KS not make a call looking for Fd until 12:15pm if he saw all the chaos happening around him as he was no doubt privy to everything happening? I will never forget that quick interview he did outside court, he seemed largely disconnected (by design perhaps?) from the situation of figuring out where Fd was and what was happening? I believe it is technically his job (insured by the bonds people) to make sure Fd is in Court when required. What did KS do in terms of finding his client from 10:30am until he reported on him at 12:15pm? I am very curious how many times KS might have been calling Fd or more likely Atty. P.

Little about the role of Atty. P. and KS on the date that Fd killed himself makes much sense and I hope LE publishes a precise timeline after they do their investigation into the suicide.

KS in his interview just made it seem like he was just hanging out waiting for his client to show up?! This makes zero sense given the long drive in traffic from Farmington to get to Stamford IMO that Fd had to make.

My guess is that Fd might have been blowing up the phone of Atty. P. and possibly due to relationship issues with Atty KS that he didn't reach out to him at all. IDK, just speculation. If Fd was blowing up Atty. P. phone and Atty. P. never picked up then that sent a message (might not have been intended this way) that Atty. P. wasn't willing or available to help him and he was on his own. Left with this information that he was on his own now, Fd chose suicide option rather that Judge Blawie's famous "Door 2" as Fd knew he was going back to jail.

MOO

Yes absolutely. I really wonder what time NP turned off his phone.
KS was also likely using his time before the hearing to get prepped since it was such short notice, but you’d have to imagine he was getting worried when FD didn’t show up at least a bit in advance. Did he think FD was just running late in traffic?

I’d have to go back to Twitter to see what time KS arrived at the courthouse but I recall that MSM was tweeting photos of KS arrival at Stamford that morning. Since it was all such short notice it might have been less on KS radar that FD wasn’t there yet, given that he had to make the drive from Farmington on short notice. I could imagine FD as someone who was often late to meetings etc since everything was on “his time”.

It is also curious that MSM had their drones and crews stationed at 4JC waiting for FD to leave that morning but never saw him leave and were still stationed there at 12, when the crews should have known that FD would have had to have been out of there way earlier to make the hearing. Since he was under house arrest he wouldn’t be anywhere else but at 4JC, wonder if the news crews were all puzzling and communicating with their reporters, haven’t seen him yet, not sure what’s going on? Did he leave before we got here so early this morning? I imagine the news crews were sent shortly after word of the emergency hearing was released, with the house arrest it was a good bet they’d be able to get footage.

 

[Chicago54]

MT must badly need psychological help. I mean, she probably needed it for years, but increasingly so since got involved with the murder and now with the latest developments.

Despite her psychologist mother’s advice probably being ‘on the house’, she understandably may not want to open up to her mother.

So, is she basically not able to access this sort of therapy in any meaningful way, as unburdening herself of the truth to a licensed practitioner would then obligate the therapist to pass that info to LE?

Not wishing her all the best or anything, just wondering how she is holding up.

and IIRC, she has a degree in psych herself. Little good that did her. She should be now, as she should have always been, thinking only of her daughter, but apparently there is something terribly “wrong” which prevents her from doing so. Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

@MsBetsy, I think this quote of yours so perfectly captures why I stepped back and said, "WHAT" when Atty. P. blamed the public for what happened to Fd!

You said:
"Seems to me that it is Norm's ridiculous antics that have fueled the public's outrage for Fotis the most. I wonder if FD had any thoughts about that himself".

100% agree.

Atty. P. had spent 7 months whipping social media into a total frenzy and then when it all hit the fan in terms of the loss of presumed innocence, then Atty. P. started 'naming FB names in court' and doing his ridiculous 'shame on you routine'.

Atty. P. had the strategic option of doing what Atty Bowman did for MT which is not speaking to the public (issue though here is that he sadly let his client lie to LE for months, but that is another issue).

Atty. P. didn't take the Atty Bowman route and so created the negatives around his client.

I do hope Atty. P. looks at his role in all of this as there is zero way IMO of disconnecting Atty. P. from any level of involvement and responsibility in the death of Fd. Sure, nobody can predict a suicide but Atty. P. sure seemed to create the perfect storm around a volatile and horrific situation that simply laid the framework for a negative outcome for Fd IMO.

MOO

I agree.

Isn't it usually standard for lawyers to say very little about a case like this to the media?

I don't recall Patrick Frazee's lawyer even making a public statement at all.

In fact I don't recall any cases where an attorney stirred up this kind of drama.
Pattis is doing the same thing he has been doing all along. He's been defending the client by publicly shifting the focus and blame off him and on to the victim or the media.

Except this time he's trying to take the focus off himself.

The first comment he made about the suicide was defensive: He never saw any signs that this was coming.

I wonder if Fotis had a moment of realization and wondered why in the world he ever hired this guy.

Imo

 

[sleuth66]

***Wow, now this is a new and very interesting thought!!

After his suicide I also thought that perhaps FD original plan was to zip tie JD and then force her into her Suburban at Welles and set it up like a suicide, since NP kept harping on revenge suicide and FD on JD mental health.
However if this was his plan then why was the Tacoma at Waveny? Wouldn’t he have skipped the whole biking thing and just parked the Tacoma on Indian Waters or Thurton and made it easier on himself?
I think that leaving the Suburban at Waveny was part of his original plan since it required the extra step with the bike, so he wouldn’t have added that in unless necessary.

 

[Megnut]

Whoa. We know the vacuum was already broken on May 24th. Maybe that was his plan for JF. In her own garage. Zip ties on, zip ties off. Make it look like suicide. No blood, no clean up, no investigation. JMO

Have we talked about this? If he was the sole agent that morning, then he drove the Tacoma to Waveny, then biked to Welles. If he drove JF's Suburban back to the Tacoma, he STILL had to go back for his bike. Which we know he retrieved because it's visible in the stills of the Tacoma. Possible he threw it in the back of JF's Suburban, but maybe THIS is where it all went sideways. Maybe he never intended to drive away in the Suburban, maybe he never intended to leave with a body. Bike in, bike out. Be back at 4JC while the phone call from Greece was still greasing. (How angry was he when he learned the alibi call came in on the wrong phone, almost went unanswered and ultimately lasted mere SECONDS?!!!)

An apparent suicide (CO poisoning in at 69 W) with FD's choreographed alibi making it look like he was in Farmington all morning--

Interesting possibility, no?

JMO JMO JMO

 

[Jmoose]

I wonder if we've been looking at this a bit in the wrong direction. Yesterday I mentioned in passing that maybe FD didn't kill JD. Rather KM killed her and FD just cleaned up. Not that that matters. But it might answer why FD thought he didn't kill JD and was being wrongfully accused. He's wrong of course. Someone presumably as smart as him should know that, but in his head, maybe he thought he was in the clear if he could just prove it. It gets worse. One thing that made no sense to me was why JD's shirt and bra were thrown away. This would lead one to assume that they were taken off JD. From pictures of KM, he seems like a creep. Maybe FD told him he could do what he likes with her. And maybe he did. That would explain the zip ties, bra, and shirt. After he was through, he killed her and left a mess. FD was hoping to make it look like a home invasion. That was the plan. But something changed. I'm hoping some of you sleuths can apply the timeline to this scenario. Maybe FD never intended to go to the house, never intended to clean up, never intended to throw stuff away in Hartford, never intended to get her car to the park, and never intended to be caught on the myriad of cameras all around town. Is it possible that the sightings of FD were actually KM? The don't really look alike but I never saw a really clear picture of him either. Maybe this is why FD felt he was innocent. There was kind of a quid pro quo going on between KM and FD. You kill my wife, I'll kill yours. And the cops will think you did yours in and I did mine in but they will be wrong and we can prove it.

I believe this is why KM and MT will not be off the hook. I'm now suspicious that KM did the deed. If so, he'll need to be held accountable. It doesn't matter that FD is dead. MT was probably the side kick. But MT would know one way or the other. Particularly because KM and her were in the office together afterwards answering the phone.

Hmm- except Fd’s DNA was found at the scene and on some of the evidence, and KM’s wasn’t as far as we know.

 

[MsBetsy]

Questions for the group (and if they have already been asked and answered, my apologies, just reply with the link):

What happens next:
MT and KM are still attending their hearings?
What are the next steps for LE? Do they still pursue MT and KM?
Several days ago Fox news reported that MT was turning on FD (this was reported when we all learned he was in hospital). Have any of you heard similar?
Will LE now unseal all info they have since FD passed?

I have followed the case since the beginning and joined WS shortly after. I typically don't post any questions or comments but I do really appreciate all the perspectives and experience the group brings to the discussion.

It will be great if someone who has expertise in LE, or forensics could weigh in. TY

Great questions and many of us are wondering about all this too.
I hope there are some experienced and knowledgable posters who can come up with some ideas as to what happens next.

 

[sleuth66]

and IIRC, she has a degree in psych herself. Little good that did her. She should be now, as she should have always been, thinking only of her daughter, but apparently there is something terribly “wrong” which prevents her from doing so. Moo

I’m betting there’s a pretty good possibility that MT is really #$&@#, that she was involved enough not to be able to spill what she knows without self incrimination, but that she doesn’t have the answer to the get out of jail card, namely, where is the body. Which would put her in a miserable situation with regard to cutting a deal, any remaining vestiges of which went down the toilet with FDs last puff of CO, anyway.

 

[SkylarSid]

FACT: MT is going to prison for a very long time!

Issue I think on KM is that the investigation is ongoing. KM has many 'interesting' clients and so I expect to see eventually that the underbelly of the Farmington Valley having been under investigation now for months. Speculating here but I also guess that KM had connections to more folks like the guy with the gas can and crowbar buy (that was seen on video at KM STBX house in the leaked video on Fox61) as did some of his clients who might possibly be connected to the trading of cars in some way.

There are so many loose ends and so many more pieces to this puzzle IMO, particularly as it relates to KM and his STBX as I am firmed convinced that KM wanted to murder his STBX and engaged Fd for the 'assist' along with possible one or more of his unsavoury and connected clients.

Stay tuned as I think more is coming, just don't know when....

MOO!

MT must be boiling like Vesuvius before it rained down on Pompei. She let herself get so incredibly used that she will never get over the repercussions. I thought maybe FD had helped her with bail, but I guess not since he had someone else paying his own bail. She will have many days, weeks, and years pondering how incredibly stupid she was to get mixed up with a user and an abuser.