Still Missing CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #58

[afitzy]

I guessed that Botox obscured her upper forehead movement as well.

And I agree. The primary emotion I saw in MT's face and movements in that interview was anger. Anger that the interviewers weren't just accepting her "Get Out of Jail Free" card that she thought the claim about JFD's own mental health would be.

It's a toxic and dangerous mix when two narcissists join together and neither recognize nor honor civilized limits. (I think of the Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow case - and the horrors they committed against LV's own children, not to mention their respective spouses.).

FD was clearly a gold-digging narcissist who took advantage of Jennifer and her family and rewarded their generosity toward him with mistreatment of Jennifer, cheating against her, and endangering their family by bringing dangerous others into their lives.

But, IMO MT is not simply some side character pulled into the vortex of FD's criminal behavior; she is the "Eve" in this story, whispering the tempting "Do it. We can do it and enjoy the rewards together," in FD's ear that assisted FD in transitioning from abuse to murder. And IMO, she did help "do it," - not necessarily the actual murder act, but the planning for it, the covering of it, and IMO, likely the treatment and disposal of JFD's body after FD left New Canaan with JFD's body on board.

Agree completely.

I don't think I will ever get over the MT quote, "...I didn't clean Jennifer....".

Both monsters imo.

 

[afitzy]

Video of State Police stating that no questions will be answered due to gag order discusses charges against FD and 2 Co Conspirators:

Finally a member of the Press explains that the MT LE interview was released by TP as he was trying to get the Conspiracy charge dropped (this effort failed):

David Ford (remember him!) footage of State Police searching his Avon house where FD did some repairs:

Fotis Dulos declared dead - summary of key info about him and suicide note revealed - Pattis vows to clear FD name and announces FD organs will be donated: WATCH LIVE: Fotis Dulos has been declared dead. The latest details.

What is interesting is that I believe Fox61 was the only organisation to to actually pull and track down details regarding the financial documents on Anna Curry and the fraudulent bail bond with Palmetto and its all briefly discussed in the last posted video above. They also reported that Anna Curry was with FD at hospital in the Bronx where he later died. Wonder if we will hear from Anna Curry at trial?

 

[DeDee]

MT was “pegged” all right by all accounts and repeatedly but the reference by “the pony tail atty” to MT as the “lying lover” could have meant any number of things and/or could have just been FD via his atty issuing a public threat to MT to stay quiet and tow the line with law enforcement and use only the script. This iirc was a frantic time in the case.

The Pattis public rebuke also could have been his public announcement via his client that FD would flip on his “lying lover” so the comment was a threat and a statement clearly made to discredit.

The Pattis statement also took the focus off his client for a bit and got it back on MT as it was during this period that I believe FD most likely was still lying to Pattis and Pattis was trying to figure out what was going on and was simply buying time to figure things out. Can’t imagine the mess Pattis had on his hands with both the co conspirators most likely lying and a full scale evidence gathering effort from law enforcement that Pattis didn’t have the budget to compete with either. Wasn’t this also when he and DA might have cooked up “fudge” and the knife to distract law enforcement efforts? Have to look at the timing on the article to make sure but Pattis was frantically trying during this period to come up with an alternative theory and I think it was around then that he realized there wasn’t one. Yikes for him….and then the public victim shaming began and lasted for a long long time.

Iirc this was the period where the two co conspirators were not to see each other per the courts; but they did meet anyway supposedly. I hope during trial we learn about the two of them yet again not following court rulings. Was the purpose of the “party” at 4Jx to bring out KM and his vehicle to the property and kick off the murderous weekend? Were the three conspirators sickly celebrating the pending demise of their nemesis by tossing some rib eyes on the grill?

Of course they all knew as you point out but for some reason that defies logic, MT wouldn’t or couldn’t stay on script. My personal view is that MT lied because it’s her wired response to being caught out. Nope not me. I believe she also lied because she couldn’t admit the truth to herself or her family to whom she was probably crying, “why am I being treated like this when I did nothing”! Denial is a strong tool and my guess is things haven’t changed in this regard for MT or her family.

Think about what a remotely appropriate response to being shown the Hartford pictures with you assisting your lover in the disposal of the remains of your cleanup following a murder you participated in? My bingo card never had continued lying as being the best path forward! But for MT though lying was what she did and she did it a lot!!

I do think she tried to stay on script by early on defying her counsel (and Mama T) to speak with law enforcement after being wholly uncooperative but she got the script wrong (no doubt inability to read that pesky English will be blamed)! The early interview feeble attempts at the alibi script also could have just been her trying to signal to FD that she was on board with the plan and was staying strong?

But, speaking and then speaking inconsistently in other interviews wasn’t in her interest and so I look forward to trial evidence detailing each of the many lies and perhaps explaining the reality so it’s possible to understand why lying was seen as the only way forward. My guess is that even us here will be horrified.

The ongoing lying from MT was also something that I just chalked up to being reflective Of her character and perhaps her life experience where perhaps in Venezuela the routine response when dealing with police is to simply lie? Idk about possible cultural issues here and given that she has spent more of her life in US than Venezuela she would know that lying to law enforcement isn’t a good idea and silence is golden.

The punishable offence for MT regarding the lying imo was that it took law enforcement off their plan possibly when the goal was to find JF. I’d always wondered if the alibi script was to take law enforcement in the wrong directions? I think it was one of the MT many lies that had law enforcement running around searching local ponds and lakes in Farmington as well as the septic tank at iirc 4JX. But maybe we will learn this isn’t the case and that they were following cell phone or vehicle gps data. But, if the lying hindered the investigation I hope the punishment is harsh as is missing/murder cases time is of the essense always!

The thing with lying is that usually at some point with adequate proof the potential exists to redeem yourself as a credible witness. But, so far as we know this never happened with MT. There was a brief nanosecond where it appeared that she was assisting and then things seemed to fall off a cliff into imo obstruction and hindering territory (for which I hope she is punished).

After thinking about three interviews with law enforcement full of lies from MT the only thing my simple brain can believe is that the lies continued because she saw no way out to connect her many lies to anything closely resembling the truth because the truth was so awful, so horrfic and so damning as to her role that she simply had no way out. Effectively the lies were bad but the truth would have her sitting in a CT prison for the rest of her sorry life with no possibility of parole ever.

Given how hard TP has worked to toss the MT interviews it now looks likely that the States case will be to simply figuratively tie MT to a stake and light it up via mounds and mounds of evidence explaining exactly why she saw lying as the only way out of her problems.

I fully expect to possibly see much more direct participation and action by MT than we all ever imagined. Just recall her classic statement of, “….I didn’t clean Jennifer….”. No matter imo if you put that statement into English, Spanish or even chinese it doesn’t translate well for MT, especially if you assume alternative meanings for “clean”. Buckle up.

Thank you for imparting such useful information that provokes interesting dialogue.
You are wise and this is so wicked. It may be on the mark, esp if they all knew.

Was the purpose of the “party” at 4Jx to bring out KM and his vehicle to the property and kick off the murderous weekend? Were the three conspirators sickly celebrating the pending demise of their nemesis by tossing some rib eyes on the grill?

We'll see her three lying lover interviews played in court. Her alibi is that she simply didn't know what Fotis had done. She could have reversed it when she had the chance.

We see her completely melt in the interview when she's told Fotis was communicating his undying love with Jen. She asked the Investigators to expound on what she was hearing them say about Fotis and Jennifer and it broke her. Everything she did for Fotis so they could be together was for naught. She's a scorned woman who will lie.

Universal language most all can see, hear or feel are love, hate, fear and murder. The lying lovers plotted and planned Jennifer's ultimate demise complete with a complex alibi script. We, or I do, remain perplexed over the preference for a gruesome bloody crime scene that left behind so much incriminating evidence that is contrary to a living Jennifer Farber Dulos. The trash dumps are detrimental crushing to MT's defense. MT's DNA should not be on the the taped trash bags, should it?

Maybe complex people hire complex attorneys? Pattis' 30 min interview on the one yr anniversary of JD's missing, May 2020, when he states he wouldn't have done anything differently by repping FD.
Exclusive: One-on-one interview with Fotis Dulos attorney, Norm Pattis one year after Jennifer's disappearance

AMHOO
The Lying Lover originator stated to a reporter that he said what he meant or he wouldn't have said it. JS may not be discredited yet but Dulos' attorney was.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611136057155944450

 

[Diddian]

Video of State Police stating that no questions will be answered due to gag order discusses charges against FD and 2 Co Conspirators:

Finally a member of the Press explains that the MT LE interview was released by TP as he was trying to get the Conspiracy charge dropped (this effort failed):

David Ford (remember him!) footage of State Police searching his Avon house where FD did some repairs:

Fotis Dulos declared dead - summary of key info about him and suicide note revealed - Pattis vows to clear FD name and announces FD organs will be donated: WATCH LIVE: Fotis Dulos has been declared dead. The latest details.

Thank you for all the links to these earlier news reports. Very helpful to revisit them.

 

[Alkali13]

Interesting info about Hartford, thank you. I wonder if we will ever know whether this Fudge story was turned over to law enforcement and investigated? Just curious I guess.

On the garage scene, given the fascinating testimony by the Lt. Col. at trial I have to admit to wondering about whether FD attacked from the front or the rear ofJF? Was she coming out of the mudroom before finishing her breakfast tea because she heard some noise? Is this how he lured her out to the garage? The bag on the floor issue is still odd and I don't recall if we heard whether it was tested or not? Could JF skipped breakfast and was heading out the door because she was running late and was carrying her bag and FD brought it back into the house and left it in a place that didn't really make much sense? Still puzzling this all out.....

IDK about anyone else but I was stunned by the clarity of the Welles neighbour security footage shown at trial as well as the Hartford footage that we had previously seen in the AAs. Could law enforcement have HD video of someone fishing through the trash cans and be able to get a close up of perhaps the murder weapon/s (probably optimistic but I can only hope!)? As you point out, the Albany strip has an incredible amount of camera coverage of very high quality which was frankly incredible to see in the AAs and now again at trial. If FD and MT went to Starbucks for their lattes and food perhaps they were captured on camera doing so. I also look forward to the forensic analysis of the Ford Raptor and the Red Tacoma as well as hearing from PG. We have yet to hear of any OnStar data but the Ford Raptor no doubt had some kind of computer system so I wonder if law enforcement obtained any useful information from it? I also wonder about the 2 Suburbans having any usable data. Did the FD choice to run down the battery on the JF Suburban destroy what data was in that system?

Given the extent of the early police canvassing as described in this past weeks testimony from I believe the Sargent, I'm optimistic (yes, it happens) that so much footage exists in their library on this case that the challenge was cutting back what would be presented at trial as evidence! The area law enforcement had to cover was sizeable (60 miles between NC and Farmington) so the mountain of evidence must be sizeable. I still do find it stunning that given the mountain of evidence that the location somewhere along the path of the various vehicles where the murdered JF was dispatched by the conspirators has not been found. I do wonder though if it was found and will be disclosed at trial? Given the rest of the evidence that seems to be in hand, the deceased body is not essential but I wish closure for the family that a body would bring.

Fingers crossed police found footage from some source or eyewitness accounts to document the 80MS and 4JX various trips of MT, FD and KM as well as PG too as well as the FD bike ride in NC. Its the 80MS comings and goings and being able to pinpoint the timeline of all the conspirators that will have me glued to the trial feed. The KM timeline has always been vague and details in his AA sketchy vs the other two participants in this murder imo. He was fully charged so there must have been some reason by the State for doing so, if even to simply ensure his testimony at MT trial. I very much look forward to putting the KM presence into the timeline so as to be able to pinpoint his location on the murder date.

In the AA, there is a one-sentence blurb about a man having gone through the trash 5/26 and finding bloody pillows consistent with the camping pillows LA said disappeared from Welles, so I am definitely looking forward to that. It does lend credence to the possibility of Fudge and George existing, but I doubt we would get testimony from either (especially Fudge because of the amount of hearsay objections JS would no doubt raise). Unless it is brought up, we may never know, but at least there is some sort of footage concerning bloody pillows.

I just drove through the area this afternoon and took some pictures that I will post at some point today. Doing so, one of the questions that came up to me was regarding Homestead Avenue (I will post a map with the photos). The street FD originally turns down off Albany leads to Homestead Avenue... This is another fairly major thoroughfare people use through Hartford. The idea that C4 camera wouldn't exist there is surprising at the very least. There are a few businesses that may or may not have cameras, but it's very hard to drive down the residential street FD did and spend seven minutes off camera. The AA also never mentions which street he turned back onto Albany from, so it will be interesting to find that out since many of those side streets between Albany and Homestead are one-way and don't connect.

The multiple trips between JC and MS is definitely interesting. The state is presenting their case in a very start-to-finish narrative that I wonder if certain evidence won't be entered until later on, even if it pertains to earlier. For example, if there is evidence they discovered way later that pertains to events earlier in the case, how much of it is stuff we have never been privy to? We've yet to see the bike footage or bus footage, so I'm hoping there is even more we haven't heard about yet.

 

[Alkali13]

SBM

A knife does seem plausible to me. It also seems plausible that Fotis Dulos intended to use a knife to threaten and aid in an abduction. If he had intended to kill her on scene, surely he'd have been a little better prepared with spatter control and cleanup materials- and perhaps materials that would kill leaving fewer bodily fluids around.

The murderer may have over estimated his knife's ability to obtain compliance.

Also, I think it is highly unlikely Fotis carried a gun to the scene because if he had, mentioning his gun ownership would not be prejudicial. It would be relevant to proving the case.

And he'd need some kind of plan to subdue JFD. Either he'd have to threaten her to comply or overpower her and restrain her using surprise to his advantage. I think he either messed up the surprise thing, such as by making noise in the garage, and switched to the bloody plan B, or didn't try it at all, thinking JFD would comply by knife point.

SBM

I think the idea that the knife was supposed to subdue/threaten more than be the implement of murder definitely seems to make sense. Given the fact that this seemed so meticulously planned out, the amount of blood at Welles makes NO sense. The sheer sloppiness of the clean-up and disposal doesn't jibe with the planning and care that went into the murder.

I think the state has a lot we don't know about... No murder weapon, no body, yet charges of murder they definitely thought they could prove.

 

[Alkali13]

Does anyone remember when the “Fudge” story about the knife surfaced? (ETA: Never mind, I see the knife/Fudge story in the Hartford Courant came out in Sept 2019, so around the time of FD’s first arrest.)

I also recall news reports about an ax FD had borrowed from a neighbor (to cut firewood) a month before JFD disappeared that was confiscated from FD’s garage at the time of his arrest on 1/7/2020. The ax confiscation was interesting in light of Exhibit 110 (wood fragment) reported as evidence collected in association with the search of FD’s 2015 black Chevy Suburban. There was discussion on these threads at the time the ax was confiscated (and a batch of search warrants was released).

Fotis Dulos Allegedly Borrowed An Ax, Which Has Been Confiscated, Before Jennifer Dulos Vanished | Oxygen Official Site

An ax that Fotis Dulos allegedly borrowed from a friend a month before his wife, Jennifer Dulos, vanished was seized from his Connecticut mansion on Tuesday, January 7 when he was arrested on murder charges.

www.oxygen.com

I believe thoughts that the axe was used in disposal (blech, ugh) and not in the murder were definitely discussed. I unfortunately have very distinct memories of Googling how long it takes to dismember a body...

 

[pernickety]

Thanks so much. I had forgotten they caught it on video!!!!!

IF they did and we can rely on the article!

 

[Alkali13]

I agree. This clip even though its short is powerful imo. Stunning stuff. IMO MT seems more mad than upset about anything and didn't care about JF OR the Dulos children - think she truly is a narc just like FD but of a lower level but all she cared about in this interview so far as I can see is herself and she had zero intention of helping find JF. The idea that FD might have lied to her and will betray and blame her also seemed to be a revelation. The Dr was looking for upper forehead movement and imo the lack of it was most likely Botox as its widely used in the demographic imo.

It's widely used in a lot of demographics, especially at her age. I am about to be 39 and starting to look into it after both my therapist and sister have recommended it. I will watch the video shortly and give my opinion, since if she was getting botox on her forehead proper, you need to do it between your eyes as well (from my understanding anyway).

 

[pernickety]

I think we probably could agree that having the DA story not being tied to LE was more probable than it being tied to Pattis. Thing also though is that Pattis allegedly had deep contacts in LE assisting his efforts and this wasn’t talked about too much but was long rumoured. I don’t doubt it as Pattis had been around a good long while and no doubt had a network of contacts.

NP's name was on the published list of witnesses the state plans to call. Hard for me to say whether he'd be happy about it or not, or whether he'd be truthful on the stand. I recall that in the Farber Trustee civil case Atty Weinstein attempted to subpoena NP as a witness and NP moved to quash it. But AIR in his filed motion he cited atty-client privilege--incorrectly. Then Judge Noble ruled for NP, but his ruling cited the proper defense that NP failed to plead. Weinstein objected that the court could not rule outside the pleadings, but Judge Noble's improper ruling won out, and Mr. Ponytail was protected by the Judicial Branch, his employer (as a Special Public Defender).

 

[Alkali13]

Is there a copy of the witness list public that someone could link here? Or is it sealed?

 

[afitzy]

Is there a copy of the witness list public that someone could link here? Or is it sealed?

I have not found it. The Press must have seen it as some outlets have reported on some of the names (posted here over last week) but not all of the names. The atty's and judge are working off a list so it must exist some place. Very frustrating to have to wait for witnesses to be discussed with poor audio at the end of the court day. If someone finds it please post.

 

[Diddian]

Troconis attorney wants "alibi scripts" banned at trial:

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/michelle-troconis-trial-dulos-alibi-scripts-18616679.php

 

[BUF]

Troconis attorney wants "alibi scripts" banned at trial:

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/michelle-troconis-trial-dulos-alibi-scripts-18616679.php

Of course he does!

No matter how she tried to explain this, it was an alibi list for that morning.

 

[Diddian]

Of course he does!

No matter how she tried to explain this, it was an alibi list for that morning.

Exactly! (Except they were for the entire day, not just the morning.)

Are "alleged activity log" and "alleged cellphone log" any better? Ultimately, MT admitted to LE that the written notes (whatever you refer to them as) contained false information.

Were I a juror, upon learning that, my mind would immediately reduce whatever JAS wants them called to "alibi script."

 

[afitzy]

Troconis attorney wants "alibi scripts" banned at trial:

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/michelle-troconis-trial-dulos-alibi-scripts-18616679.php

Of course he does!

It's in her writing and it’s perfect English and it’s very detailed.

No bueno for TP and his defence of MT!

This is becoming absolutely absurd and judge needs to stop the insanity. First we have JF the Victim referred to as a “toothbrush” in the dna discussion and now the actual alibi scripts get another code name! Why not just call it “lies list for police”!

Will add both toothbrush and alibi script to the bingo card as they are classic additions to this tragic trial imo.

Why did the Judge not resolve these issues regarding evidence pretrial? Have never seen such an evidence *advertiser censored* show ever. It’s like watching “let’s make a deal”! Jury must be losing their mind. The alibi scripts have been a well known and highly discussed item since the beginning of this case and were discussed in the AAs. TP has known about these MT created documents for years and he is filing this motion now? I’m beginning to think there are no rules in this court. None. It’s whatever you can get away with. The item of evidence should be presented and let the jury decide.

Or better yet let TP put his client on the stand to explain what she was thinking about when she composed the “list of lies for police”! He knows he can’t do this so he tries an end run via motion. This is becoming a farce and right up there with the dismissal of the MT cell phone.
el final!

MOO

 

[afitzy]

MT AA refers clearly to the Alibi Scripts - refer to below screen shot discussing the Alibi Scrips from AA

Link to Complete MT AA: DocumentCloud

 

[Alkali13]

Troconis attorney wants "alibi scripts" banned at trial:

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/michelle-troconis-trial-dulos-alibi-scripts-18616679.php

If I am reading it correctly, he isn't opposed to them being introduced as evidence, but wants them referred to as "timelines" instead of "alibi scripts."

 

[afitzy]

Daily mail article discussing Alibi scripts

DM alibi scripts 11-23

 

[afitzy]

If I am reading it correctly, he isn't opposed to them being introduced as evidence, but wants them referred to as "timelines" instead of "alibi scripts."

Yes, just like he referred to JF as “toothbrush” for purposes of DNA.

He is creating an alternative vocabulary for key evidence to waste time, confuse the jury and obfuscate imo.

The documents are in the AA as Alibi Script and imo should remain that way. Jurors I would think would have access to the AAs so what will they think when they run across Alibi Script?