Identified! CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, May'74 - Linda Sue Childers

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I found an article for Nov. 19, 1968 from The Bridgeport Post (Connecticut) that names 7 men and 1 women in indictments for 2 separate bank robberies. In a hold-up of The Hartford National Bank & Trust Co. (Manchester branch); 3 men: Gustavous Lee Carmichael, Roger Joseph Brown, Richard D. Labbe and Lucille Civitelli (or Civilelli - hard to read). It says Carmichael is of South Boston & he and Brown are also being sought as escapees from a jail in Plymouth, Mass. Miss Civitelli is being held at the State Farm for women in Niantic (?) and Labbe at the Federal Correctional Institution in Dambury.

I had not heard/seen the Lucille Civitelli name mentioned before on here...could she be our UID? She knew Carmichael & committed a bank robbery with him at the very least. This was late in 1968, so just a couple of years before they were murdered.

Here is a link to the article, FWIW, but it's an image on ancestry.com - don't know if everyone can access. If the link doesn't work, search for "Gustavous Carmichael" and then look at the search results under newspapers, the article will be on the lower right hand corner.

http://interactive.ancestry.com/678...,3600;3384,3800,3541,3825;3616,3400,3722,3425

ETA: Lucille Civitelli is listed as being 22 years old at the time.
 
I think it's in one of the articles that someone posted before, she was charged with receiving stolen property, she hid about three thousand behind her apartment. I could not find much on her. Was thinking since she was charged with something the police would have been able to put things together if this was the same girl. I had wondered though if maybe she had been a friend of this woman, or in the same apartment building. Could not find the address or the court docket on her though.
 
skeet said:
I think it's in one of the articles that someone posted before, she was charged with receiving stolen property, she hid about three thousand behind her apartment. I could not find much on her. Was thinking since she was charged with something the police would have been able to put things together if this was the same girl. I had wondered though if maybe she had been a friend of this woman, or in the same apartment building. Could not find the address or the court docket on her though.
Click to expand...

It says that $30,000 of the loot was found in her possession.
 
skeet said:
I think it's in one of the articles that someone posted before, she was charged with receiving stolen property, she hid about three thousand behind her apartment. I could not find much on her. Was thinking since she was charged with something the police would have been able to put things together if this was the same girl. I had wondered though if maybe she had been a friend of this woman, or in the same apartment building. Could not find the address or the court docket on her though.
Click to expand...

It's like...she disappeared...
 
I am wondering of the ring is not of U.S. origin. There were lots of migrants in the early 1900's who could have brought jewellery across with them. My husband when he migrated to Australia brought with him a solid gold ring with a ducat on the face. It would be no good searching here for it's origin as it came from Europe.
There is certainly much work going into this thread. I commend all the posters who are giving it their all.
 
poppygirl said:
I found an article for Nov. 19, 1968 from The Bridgeport Post (Connecticut) that names 7 men and 1 women in indictments for 2 separate bank robberies. In a hold-up of The Hartford National Bank & Trust Co. (Manchester branch); 3 men: Gustavous Lee Carmichael, Roger Joseph Brown, Richard D. Labbe and Lucille Civitelli (or Civilelli - hard to read). It says Carmichael is of South Boston & he and Brown are also being sought as escapees from a jail in Plymouth, Mass. Miss Civitelli is being held at the State Farm for women in Niantic (?) and Labbe at the Federal Correctional Institution in Dambury.

I had not heard/seen the Lucille Civitelli name mentioned before on here...could she be our UID? She knew Carmichael & committed a bank robbery with him at the very least. This was late in 1968, so just a couple of years before they were murdered.

Here is a link to the article, FWIW, but it's an image on ancestry.com - don't know if everyone can access. If the link doesn't work, search for "Gustavous Carmichael" and then look at the search results under newspapers, the article will be on the lower right hand corner.

http://interactive.ancestry.com/678...,3600;3384,3800,3541,3825;3616,3400,3722,3425

ETA: Lucille Civitelli is listed as being 22 years old at the time.
Click to expand...

I have also had trouble finding much more on Lucille Civitelli. I've tried different spellings but only come up with one match, who is older than our LC would be now and lives in CA. Pretty sure it's a different person. So yeah, it does seem like she disappeared or changed her name. Same for Joanne Rainello.

FWIW, LC is described as Labbe's girlfriend. He appears to still be alive and in the Lewiston, Maine area. I'm thinking that Carmichael spent most of his life in Boston (his mother was originally from Boston and died in Boston) and lived in Maine briefly, which is perhaps where he met Labbe, etc.
 
FiveFelines said:
I have also had trouble finding much more on Lucille Civitelli. I've tried different spellings but only come up with one match, who is older than our LC would be now and lives in CA. Pretty sure it's a different person. So yeah, it does seem like she disappeared or changed her name. Same for Joanne Rainello.

FWIW, LC is described as Labbe's girlfriend. He appears to still be alive and in the Lewiston, Maine area. I'm thinking that Carmichael spent most of his life in Boston (his mother was originally from Boston and died in Boston) and lived in Maine briefly, which is perhaps where he met Labbe, etc.
Click to expand...

I had also tried to find information on both Lucille Civetelli and Joanne Rainello and was unsuccessful. I would be surprised if Joanne hadn't changed her name and/or gone into some sort of witness protection program/hiding based on her fears, the level of protection she was getting during the trial, and because of the type of people she implicated. The lack of information on Lucille is more surprising to me.
 
FiveFelines said:
One of the newspaper articles gives an address for him in Southie (I have to go find it). I believe that was from when he was arrested for the earlier robbery. I'm curious if he ever lived anywhere outside of Mass aside from when he was on the run. Wasn't he in Maine at some point?
Click to expand...

I don't think it will yield any clues in this case, but Carmichael's FBI wanted poster lists his place of birth as Atlanta, Georgia, which surprised me. His roots otherwise seem to be in Mass. Wonder what the family was doing in Atlanta when he was born and how long they lived there. I guess his geographical range could have been wider than New England and the tri-state area.
 
Skigirl said:
I had also tried to find information on both Lucille Civetelli and Joanne Rainello and was unsuccessful. I would be surprised if Joanne hadn't changed her name and/or gone into some sort of witness protection program/hiding based on her fears, the level of protection she was getting during the trial, and because of the type of people she implicated. The lack of information on Lucille is more surprising to me.
Click to expand...

I found LUCY Civitelli (yes, spelled differently) age 74, California.


I'm not sure how this info might help with identification but I thought I'd share this article regarding recovery of bodies. I wonder if Gardner was working with authorities (organized crime task force) at this time?

Info about info leading to recovery of bodies:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...XOwgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SHIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3935,361261
 
I found a tidbit from a newspaper that is mostly behind a paywall, Wisconsin State Journal, 10/10/64: around October 10, 1964, Gustavous L. Carmichael and Leonard J. Amabile (age 19), both formerly of Boston, pled guilty to burglary of Avenue Sporting Goods Store, in Monona, Wisconsin (near Madison). The article mentions that Leonard has no permanent address, but lists Carmichael's as 207 Owen Road, Monona. Wonder what he was doing in Wisconsin?
 
I have no links, just some thoughts. I think it's unfortunate and strange, that it took Rainello three and half years to be afraid enough of DeFreitas to tell police what she knew. I know she said he threatened her, and he probably did. I wonder how much longer she stayed with him after knowing he was capable of murder.

In that three and a half years after the murder you have an abandoned Green 1964 Oldsmobile, I think Brant said it was dumped in one spot and Rainello said a different spot. In either case was in a place where it could easily be seen? If so would the police had ticketed the car or just towed it away after a certain amount of time? Did they try to find out who the car was registered to? I doubt it would have been registered to Carmichael since he was a fugitive and would not have wanted to leave a trail. Could it have been registered to the girl with the red hair? Where had it been inspected and who brought it in to be inspected?

So three and a half years after the fact the car that Carmichael drove around in, is probably crushed. Also they had an apartment together. Sure it was under an assumed name but...how long would the landlord have waited before he cleaned out the apartment possible throwing out a piece of paper with her real name on it? He had no clue until 1974 when the bodies were found that this couple was on the run. Would he have saved anything valuable?

So Rainello gets immunity and protection. She sure got lucky huh? Just an opinion but I think she knew at least this girls first name, if someone stayed in my house for two days prior to their murder I'm pretty sure I would know their name, especially if they confided their fears to me.
 
Skigirl said:
I don't think it will yield any clues in this case, but Carmichael's FBI wanted poster lists his place of birth as Atlanta, Georgia, which surprised me. His roots otherwise seem to be in Mass. Wonder what the family was doing in Atlanta when he was born and how long they lived there. I guess his geographical range could have been wider than New England and the tri-state area.
Click to expand...

I didn't post it here because the doc was huge, but I uncovered a genealogy site for the Camrnichael family. I think I already mentioned that it says Gus Sr served in WWII. Other tidbits:

The Carmichaels seem to be from GA. Rita Barrett (Jr's mother) was from South Boston. I assume they moved to Boston after Jr was born.

Jr has another brother and a sister, still living.

Rita was Gus Sr's second wife; no children from the first marriage.
 
fred&edna said:
I found LUCY Civitelli (yes, spelled differently) age 74, California.


I'm not sure how this info might help with identification but I thought I'd share this article regarding recovery of bodies. I wonder if Gardner was working with authorities (organized crime task force) at this time?

Info about info leading to recovery of bodies:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...XOwgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SHIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3935,361261
Click to expand...

Yes, that's who I found. Too old to be our LC and I think that is her married name.
 
Skigirl said:
I found a tidbit from a newspaper that is mostly behind a paywall, Wisconsin State Journal, 10/10/64: around October 10, 1964, Gustavous L. Carmichael and Leonard J. Amabile (age 19), both formerly of Boston, pled guilty to burglary of Avenue Sporting Goods Store, in Monona, Wisconsin (near Madison). The article mentions that Leonard has no permanent address, but lists Carmichael's as 207 Owen Road, Monona. Wonder what he was doing in Wisconsin?
Click to expand...

Ooh, great find!
 
FiveFelines said:
I'm thinking that Carmichael spent most of his life in Boston (his mother was originally from Boston and died in Boston) and lived in Maine briefly, which is perhaps where he met Labbe, etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's right. Richard Labbe and Roger Brown were both from Lewiston, and the Lewiston paper characterized Carmichael as a former resident when they wrote about his having been identified after exhumed from the swamp. The FBI poster at the UID's NamUs listing lists Atlanta, GA, as Carmichael's birthplace. Gustavous Sr might have been stationed in the vicinity in '46, when he was born, and moved back home thereafter.

Labbe was shot in the neck by a police officer during the '68 bank heist that netted >$88k, having to recuperate in hospital before he could answer LE questions, and Brown told a cop that he and Carmichael had sent between $25k and $30k to a Boston lawyer, which might have represented Labbe's escrowed share. Presumably, this Boston lawyer specialized in criminal law. Presumably, he should have known that the money he was receiving was stolen, considering the source. And considering that, it's just possible that he's the person who steered Carmichael and his mystery girlfriend to DeFreitas and Rainello, though it's likelier there was some intermediary that Carmichael met in prison, who was already out. A court document states that Gardner, DeFreitas and Brant kept apartments in Providence where they sheltered other criminals looking to lay low.

The reason stated by Brant and DeFreitas for the murders was that they were afraid the girl might blab if Carmichael were caught, but we don't know how much of the money that Carmichael got from his last heist was deposited into the bank account under the name of Lorraine Stahl. Gardner testified that he walked away from the burial meeting with $15k, but DeFreitas's robbery in Newport, RI, on the day that Carmichael and the girl arrived netted $30k, which he is alleged to have split up in front of Carmichael and the mystery girl on the day they arrived. With the newcomers would have been, probably $30k, Carmichael's half share of the haul from a $60k robbery in New Jersey with another man, presumably Brown, who escaped with him as they were being transported on October 5.

If Gardner and Brant came up from RI on the day Carmichael and the young woman arrived, to get their share, then it does seem that they had an arrangement. But Gardner testified that DeFreitas proposed the arrangement at the time, though reports of the testimony of the murder trial say that they shared an arsenal and their network of Providence apartments. The reports of testimony also state that DeFreitas divvied up his take with his pals in front of the newcomers on the evening of their arrival. That seems rather ostentatious, and something in the way of a hint. As far as we know, the hint wasn't taken, even though DeFreitas helped the couple establish their new, stolen identity as Dirk and Lorraine Stahl, and the couple moved to a place in Noank on December 30, the day they also established their bank account in Lorraine Stahl's name. The next day they were lured back to the A-frame and killed, though accounts differ as to by whom, and killed there. Where whatever money they didn't deposit into the account might have gone, none of the available articles says, but Gardner testified that after he was called from RI on December 31 to help clean up 'a problem,' he received $15k. That was after he'd gotten his share of DeFreitas's previous job already, if the accounts are true, and it seems likely that that was part of the money that was in Carmichael's briefcase. In short, it seems likely that the murders were motivated by more than just fear over the mystery woman's nervousness about being caught.

I realize, though, that that doesn't get us closer to the UID's ID.
 
Skigirl said:
I found a tidbit from a newspaper that is mostly behind a paywall, Wisconsin State Journal, 10/10/64: around October 10, 1964, Gustavous L. Carmichael and Leonard J. Amabile (age 19), both formerly of Boston, pled guilty to burglary of Avenue Sporting Goods Store, in Monona, Wisconsin (near Madison). The article mentions that Leonard has no permanent address, but lists Carmichael's as 207 Owen Road, Monona. Wonder what he was doing in Wisconsin?
Click to expand...

Here are some more details from that article. It says that Carmichael's sister was in the car with them but not held:

"As Raether entered the building, the pair fled our a back door, dropping an undetermined amount of money as they ran. Other policemen converged on the scene and found a 22-year-old woman, later found to be Carmichael's sister, asleep in the >ack seat of a car in the 500 >lock of N. Highland ave. She said her brother and Ama- uile left her in the car while they j vent bowling. She gave police a description of her brother who was traced through records of a axi he took to Monona. He was rrested at his home. A short . time later Amabile ailed Patrolman Darrel L. Timer in the 2500 block of Univer- ity ave., and reported his car tolen. Under questioning by Timler, e admitted taking part in the urglary. He suffered a broken instep in the flight from the store and said e climbed to the roof of a near- i y shed and watched police comb le area. The woman was not held."

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/14934811/
 
Somebody mentioned Sandra Breed a few pages back. I think she is a decent potential match. There isn't nearly enough information about her, but I did find some interesting articles at this link - http://newyorkstatemissingpersons.ning.com/photo/sandra-breed?context=user

She is listed as having brown hair, which could have been reddish brown. One article asking for actors to take part in a reconstruction asks for a female with light brown hair, which sounds like the part of Sandra.

Edit: Upon closer inspection, it seems that Breed had dark brown hair (still could have had auburn/copper tones) and was "heavy set". She was only 16 when she went missing though, it could have been what we called 'puppy fat' and she may have lost weight as she got into her twenties.

Edit again! - I managed to find a clearer photo! http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bruce_clark_and_sandy_breen.jpg
 
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