Custody Hearing - Scheduled for 10/16

[Anderson]

Anderson

Excellent list. As you know, I do not believe in coincidences, only the illusion of them. The list of illusions is very long in this case. By Detective Daniels issuing an affidavit in the custody case, it has led me to re-watch the deposition tapes again and in a much slower manner and using affidavits to check against. The list gets even longer. Whew.

Thanks! Sometimes I get caught up in the small details, so every once in a while, I think that it is important to remember the whole picture.

What you say makes so much sense: "I do not believe in coincidences, only the illusion of them. The list of illusions is very long in this case." I look forward to hearing more of your observations, as always.

 

[jumpstreet]

There were no impassioned speeches about his tenderness as a father or adoration of his daughters

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1258347.html


This is something that has been nagging me since I watched the videos last week. I can not remember Brad ever saying, I love Bella and Katie, I miss them, my life is empty without them etc etc. Only that he wants them back.

He hasn't explicitly said he didn't do it either (like in his deposition). I do wonder why the plaintiffs attorneys didn't just ask him point-blank during the deposition [or did I miss that? ]

 

[SleuthyGal]

Anderson, it's a great list! So many inconsistencies to consider...plus all the ones you and others posted on the inconsistencies thread too.

 

[jumpstreet]

I don't really understand all of the above post, but I may be missing some context.

Apologies Anderson. My post was a reference to another case in this area (somewhat famous, but a number of years ago), where WS (attorney for the plaintiffs) helped represented a defendant accused or killing his spouse, and specifically accused by the in-laws. A few other things struck me as being somewhat similar between the cases including a last minute witness who came forward and seemed to help substantiate the defendant's case. It all made me wonder if secretly WS was wishing he was representing BC. [ BC probably couldn't afford him now though ]

 

[Anderson]

Apologies Anderson. My post was a reference to another case in this area (somewhat famous, but a number of years ago), where WS (attorney for the plaintiffs) helped represented a defendant accused or killing his spouse, and specifically accused by the in-laws. A few other things struck me as being somewhat similar between the cases including a last minute witness who came forward and seemed to help substantiate the defendant's case. It all made me wonder if secretly WS was wishing he was representing BC. [ BC probably couldn't afford him now though ]

No need to apologize. I knew that I must be missing some context. All of these acronyms are hard to follow sometimes. I thought for a moment that WS= websleuths!! :crazy:

 

[jumpstreet]

For those in the courtroom yesterday (thanks for the firsthand reflections, BTW, I'm sure it was gut wrenching to watch at times)...but any reflections on the attorneys in general for both sides? Certainly they plaintiffs have a seasoned and polished team... how did the K&B and Sandlin folks appear - out-of-their-league? just competent? or, also seasoned/polished? [ Just curious ]

 

[Anderson]

Anderson, it's a great list! So many inconsistencies to consider...plus all the ones you and others posted on the inconsistencies thread too.

The list is seemingly endless!

Thanks so much to you and Mom for attending the proceedings yesterday!! I was reading your comments yesterday. It sounds like an emotionally draining day for everyone involved in the case.

 

[ncsu95]

I don't really understand all of the above post, but I may be missing some context.

He's making reference to the Jeffrey Macdonald murder of his pregnant wife and 2 girls in Fayetteville NC back in 1970. It's a very famous case that had a book and TV movie called Fatal Vision. Macdonald was a military doctor that was also injured in the attack. He was convicted many years later for the murder. Here is a great site that deals with that case.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/

 

[jumpstreet]

The list is seemingly endless!

It's a good list - thanks for posting it. I don't think all the items you listed are accurate, but I get your point.

 

[Anderson]

He's making reference to the Jeffrey Macdonald murder of his pregnant wife and 2 girls in Fayetteville NC back in 1970. It's a very famous case that had a book and TV movie called Fatal Vision. Macdonald was a military doctor that was also injured in the attack. He was convicted many years later for the murder. Here is a great site that deals with that case.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/

Thanks! See post #346

 

[Anderson]

It's a good list - thanks for posting it. I don't think all the items you listed are accurate, but I get your point.

Feel free to quibble with the points you disagree with!

 

[ncsu95]

I don't really understand all of the above post, but I may be missing some context.

For a moment I want to return to some basics:

1. NC went missing.
2. NC's keys and cell phone were found at home.
3. BC had been cleaning for several hours the same day that NC went missing.
4. BC did not like to clean (NC has testified that the house was a mess when she got home from holiday).
5. BC did not call NC's parents to tell them that she was missing (he left this up to her friends).
6. BC never called NC's parents to tell them that he was worried about her.
7. BC was very angry at NC the night before she went missing.
8. BC had probably started to realize that NC was going to leave very soon. (This is when a spouse is most likely to become violent; also consider that the list seen by HP and her testimony that she went to Interact and that he had changed NC's plans to leave sooner by holding one passport; there was was also limiting her allowance and playing games by following her around to fill her tank, buy groceries etc. )
9. BC may have figured out that NC was communicating with BW and was likely jealous.
10. BC likely had red marks on his neck (and his arms?) shortly after NC's disappearance.
11. NC was found with no clothes, jewellry, shoes etc. (these items appear to have been found in the house; he may have gotten rid of these if there had been more time)
12. BC did not attend NC's funeral or her memorial. BC did not let his Brother attend NC's memorial (he also told his daughter's about NC before the funeral and then did not attend with them)
13. BC has not fully cooperated with LE. (They have asked him to come in to be interviewed and he has refused; why doesn't he want the murder investigation to move ahead?)
14. An eyewitness says that she saw NC on the morning that she went jogging (perhaps, eyewitness accounts are often unreliable, we don't know what other eyewitness accounts are available at this point or what they have seen)
15. Psychologists have differing assessments of BC, but one emphasizes that he has some deep anger (WS posters from Canada that know Brad have agreed with that assessment- Hi LL; so has JWB)
15. BC does not take the stand in the custody hearing (what does he have to hide?)
17. Nobody from BC's family takes the stand in the custody hearing (that seems odd, if he wants his kids back)
18. BC does not seem to have many friends. Those that BC mentioned in the deposition do not seem to be very close friends, according to Canadian WS posters. Brad also admits that he no longer speaks to them.
19. BC seems to be the person of interest in the murder case.
20. Brad currently does not work (Will Cisco pay him for the full year or so that it could take for this to be resolved?; Is he able to leave the US during this time?)
21. Brad does not have a very solid support network to help him with caring for the children.

As you know, I am missing many, many points.

I am not saying that BC is necessarily guilty (although that's what my gut tells me). I am also not convinced that Brad is in a position to care for his children now. I would like to see him cleared of the murder before the children are returned to him. I think that if Brad is cleared, he would also want to consider moving far away from Cary and start a fresh life before bringing his children back to live with him. As far as I can tell, that is not going to happen for a long time.

Just some thoughts.

To answer some of these:

4. NC hasn't testified obviously. I would argue (and have already) that her idea of clean and his idea of clean could be different. He said in his deposition that she was upset about certain things he didn't do.
7. I don't know where you get this from....no testimony anywhere backing this from what I can remember.
8. Complete speculation.
9. Complete speculation.
12. Discussed in detail on this forum. Many "on the fence" agree with his decision not to attend. I wouldn't have either.
13. After watching this seminar from a professor and a police detective, I can pretty much say I wouldn't ever cooperate with police:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8167533318153586646&hl=en
14. Eyewitness seems credible so far.
15. This was expected.
16. I don't blame him for not taking the stand. It wouldn't have been about the kids if he had.
17. Irrelevant.
18. Irrelevant.
19. Obviously
20. Brad is working again at Cisco. He has been for over a month.
21. How do you know this?

Brad will likely never be cleared since he hasn't been named a suspect. My guess is no arrest will ever be made, and he will never be cleared. Custody shouldn't be determined based on this.

 

[ncsu95]

There were no impassioned speeches about his tenderness as a father or adoration of his daughters

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1258347.html


This is something that has been nagging me since I watched the videos last week. I can not remember Brad ever saying, I love Bella and Katie, I miss them, my life is empty without them etc etc. Only that he wants them back.

The deposition was the Rentz families attorney asking him questions. It wasn't his own attorney. He was never asked how he feels about his children. He was never really asked about the children.

 

[jmflu]

Mom, if no one ever answered your question about how to start a new thread, there is a link at the top of the page to start one. Go for it!

 

[jmflu]

Anderson, I was wishing just yesterday that someone would start a list like this... thanks!

 

[piedmont]

I don't really understand all of the above post, but I may be missing some context.

For a moment I want to return to some basics:

1. NC went missing.
2. NC's keys and cell phone were found at home.
3. BC had been cleaning for several hours the same day that NC went missing.
4. BC did not like to clean (NC has testified that the house was a mess when she got home from holiday).
5. BC did not call NC's parents to tell them that she was missing (he left this up to her friends).
6. BC never called NC's parents to tell them that he was worried about her.
7. BC was very angry at NC the night before she went missing.
8. BC had probably started to realize that NC was going to leave very soon. (This is when a spouse is most likely to become violent; also consider that the list seen by HP and her testimony that she went to Interact and that he had changed NC's plans to leave sooner by holding one passport; there was was also limiting her allowance and playing games by following her around to fill her tank, buy groceries etc. )
9. BC may have figured out that NC was communicating with BW and was likely jealous.
10. BC likely had red marks on his neck (and his arms?) shortly after NC's disappearance.
11. NC was found with no clothes, jewellry, shoes etc. (these items appear to have been found in the house; he may have gotten rid of these if there had been more time)
12. BC did not attend NC's funeral or her memorial. BC did not let his Brother attend NC's memorial (he also told his daughter's about NC before the funeral and then did not attend with them)
13. BC has not fully cooperated with LE. (They have asked him to come in to be interviewed and he has refused; why doesn't he want the murder investigation to move ahead?)
14. An eyewitness says that she saw NC on the morning that she went jogging (perhaps, eyewitness accounts are often unreliable, we don't know what other eyewitness accounts are available at this point or what they have seen)
15. Psychologists have differing assessments of BC, but one emphasizes that he has some deep anger (WS posters from Canada that know Brad have agreed with that assessment- Hi LL; so has JWB)
15. BC does not take the stand in the custody hearing (what does he have to hide?)
17. Nobody from BC's family takes the stand in the custody hearing (that seems odd, if he wants his kids back)
18. BC does not seem to have many friends. Those that BC mentioned in the deposition do not seem to be very close friends, according to Canadian WS posters. Brad also admits that he no longer speaks to them.
19. BC seems to be the person of interest in the murder case.
20. Brad currently does not work (Will Cisco pay him for the full year or so that it could take for this to be resolved?; Is he able to leave the US during this time?)
21. Brad does not have a very solid support network to help him with caring for the children.

As you know, I am missing many, many points.

I am not saying that BC is necessarily guilty (although that's what my gut tells me). I am also not convinced that Brad is in a position to care for his children now. I would like to see him cleared of the murder before the children are returned to him. I think that if Brad is cleared, he would also want to consider moving far away from Cary and start a fresh life before bringing his children back to live with him. As far as I can tell, that is not going to happen for a long time.

Just some thoughts.

BC did seem to be keeping NC as powerless as possible. "Forgetting" to give the weekly money seems to show he was bent on frustrating her plans and power. It seems his main objective had come to be keeping her from taking his children away from him. Controlling her as much as he could would be top priority for him.

Another trait with this personality type can be "avoidant." Anything he did not want to subject himself to would be avoided, regardless of what people thot. jmo

 

[raisincharlie]

To answer some of these:

4. NC hasn't testified obviously. I would argue (and have already) that her idea of clean and his idea of clean could be different. He said in his deposition that she was upset about certain things he didn't do.
7. I don't know where you get this from....no testimony anywhere backing this from what I can remember.
8. Complete speculation.
9. Complete speculation.
12. Discussed in detail on this forum. Many "on the fence" agree with his decision not to attend. I wouldn't have either.
13. After watching this seminar from a professor and a police detective, I can pretty much say I wouldn't ever cooperate with police:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8167533318153586646&hl=en
14. Eyewitness seems credible so far.
15. This was expected.
16. I don't blame him for not taking the stand. It wouldn't have been about the kids if he had.
17. Irrelevant.
18. Irrelevant.
19. Obviously
20. Brad is working again at Cisco. He has been for over a month.
21. How do you know this?

Brad will likely never be cleared since he hasn't been named a suspect. My guess is no arrest will ever be made, and he will never be cleared. Custody shouldn't be determined based on this.

NC has testified to some extent. Brad got to hear her voice yesterday in fact during the hearing. She once again showed him to be what he is, not very truthful.

 

[RaleighNC]

He is working - just not going into the office - he is conversing with Cisco HR to determine when he will be back in the office - it was supposed to be early October and was postponed.

 

[jmflu]

It is often said that there is her side, his side, and then there's the truth.

It follows that there is her version of clean, his version of clean, and then there is true cleanliness

I do not believe that the presence of bugs that no one cares to eradicate are acceptable under the definition of true cleanliness.

And apparently, this was Brad's idea of cleanliness.

 

[rwesafe]

BC did seem to be keeping NC as powerless as possible. "Forgetting" to give the weekly money seems to show he was bent on frustrating her plans and power. It seems his main objective had come to be keeping her from taking his children away from him. Controlling her as much as he could would be top priority for him.

Another trait with this personality type can be "avoidant." Anything he did not want to subject himself to would be avoided, regardless of what people thot. jmo

Maybe not losing his children was top priority to him? If my spouse were trying to take my children to another country...I think I would be throwing out some stop blocks as well. Additionally, a single instance of forgetting the weekly money is hardly evidence of a control tactic.