Darlie Routier's Appeals & Court Rulings

[Dark Knight]

If a person uses an evidence picture in a book that is in a public court record, that person does not own it. It is in the public domain.

Look at it like this. When we get court documents off the net it's because they are part of a public file. They are not the property of the lawyer. They are the property of the court and, unless sealed by a judge, are made available to the public.

So if I want to take a picture from a book that was taken from a public file I can. The author of the book doesn't own the picture.

I would be willing to pay one of our members to go to the court and get Darlie's public file. The whole thing. At long as it's not cost prohibitive to copy the file.

I'd strongly suggest you get a Copyright Lawyer's opinion, first, since the author of the book is going to challenge you, anyways. But unless I am misunderstanding you, what you're saying isn't totally correct in my view, but I could also be mistaken. It happens, lol! But in the media we have to be pretty well versed on copyrights. And photographs tend to be viewed differently than documents, and personal viewing is different than copying and distributing. Up to you, but I'd get a legal opinion to head off the challenge in advance.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana:

You don't think that perhaps some of this has died down by now? I mean, we could try it and see, and then close it if we had to. It's not like we couldn't close the forum and just have some threads if it got out of hand.

I think it's worth a try.

I'm willing to try it and will do what I can to help. There is definitely interest and I have the time, especially during the day, to help out any moderators.

I agree with Tybee, that if the pics were available in court, then they are part of the state's property and not private property.

Sherlock

Sherlock, I'm so sick of the name Darlie Routier that I don't know how much I'd even be there. Since Tricia and the moderator would have to deal with any problems that come up, I have no opinion on whether its "tried" or not. I can assure you that the same group I was talking about would find their way here.

As for the photographs, I completely agree with you. I'm just telling you what other forums have gone through with regard to their use.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'd strongly suggest you get a Copyright Lawyer's opinion, first, since the author of the book is going to challenge you, anyways. But unless I am misunderstanding you, what you're saying isn't totally correct in my view, but I could also be mistaken. It happens, lol! But in the media we have to be pretty well versed on copyrights. And photographs tend to be viewed differently than documents, and personal viewing is different than copying and distributing. Up to you, but I'd get a legal opinion to head off the challenge in advance.

Brown, the "author" of the book in question, did some fancy footwork with a lot of the blood photographs, when he was trying to show a bootprint in something that didn't look to me like it could work. So, for those photographs, you probably wouldn't want to use them as they distort the truth.

 

[CW]

from the begining and have read Precious Angels I have always leaned towards guilty but with all the mistakes from the first court reporter I do think she should be given a second trial. If Tricia decides to start a forum I would be willing to help mod the forum I could fill in for afternoons to wee hours in the night because I'm a night owl.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

from the begining and have read Precious Angels I have always leaned towards guilty but with all the mistakes from the first court reporter I do think she should be given a second trial. If Tricia decides to start a forum I would be willing to help mod the forum I could fill in for afternoons to wee hours in the night because I'm a night owl.

WindChime, I'd be willing to take the early morning to dinner time shift.

 

[CW]

in the night shift..

 

[CW]

Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Darlie Routier Loses Another Appeal
Judge rejects another appeal by Darlie Routier

The judge who presided over Darlie Routier's 1997 death-penalty trial rejected the convicted child-killer's second appeal in a ruling released Wednesday.

More than two years after the writ appeal was filed by Ms. Routier's defense team, state District Judge Robert Francis found that the former Rowlett homemaker now on death row got a fair trial.

"The Applicant has failed to prove by a preponderance of the evidence ... that anyone other than the Applicant was responsible or involved in the murders," Judge Francis wrote.

* * *


One of Ms. Routier's appellate attorneys, J. Stephen Cooper, said he was not surprised by the findings because the judge indicated in January that he would not hear court arguments on the matter.

* * *

He said a federal appeal is possible if the state appeals court agrees with the judge's findings and rejects the appeal.

An earlier appeal based on the fact that errors occurred during the trial also was rejected.

Ms. Routier was sentenced to death in 1997 for killing her 5-year-old son, Damon. She was also accused of killing her 6-year-old son, Devon, but was not tried for that death. She maintains that an intruder stabbed the boys before stabbing her in her Rowlett home.

The appeal challenged Ms. Routier's conviction by claiming a wide range of errors and mishandling by the original trial attorneys and prosecutors, including the following:

One bloody fingerprint was not analyzed properly and could have supported a defense claim that Ms. Routier's children were fatally stabbed by an unknown intruder. Judge Francis ruled that a fingerprint analyst used by the defense team used methodology that was "not sound" and that trial testimony about the print was accurate.

* * *

The intruder theory was buffeted by information that Ms. Routier's husband, Darin Routier, had searched for someone to stage a burglary of the house to collect insurance money. Judge Francis found no evidence that the slayings were part of a burglary.

* * *


The judge also concluded that the defense team had mounted an adequate defense during the trial.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...rlie.165bd.html

 

[CW]

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Jeana ~ your buddy Darlie, she just does not give up!
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Old 08-05-2004, 10:41 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casshew
Jeana ~ your buddy Darlie, she just does not give up!

Death row has NOT been kind to Darlie Routier. She looks absolutely horrible in that photograph. Hopefully, she's starting to get some idea about how the state feels about women who murder their children in their sleep.
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:43 PM
camillllla camillllla is offline
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I just want to introduce myself, I am Camilla, one of the Darlie posters from Mary's Guilty as Charged forum at Delphi.

I know Darlie is guilty, but it was a long process for me to arrive to that conclusion, to be sure.
If anyone needs some help with understanding the evidence, especially blood, Ill do my best to explain what I know.



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Old 08-05-2004, 04:23 PM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Thanks for coming over Camilla. I'm hoping to get the discussion going once the Peterson case wraps up. Between the end of that case and the Lori Hackings murder trial (if there even is one), we'll need a good case to talk about. In the meantime, please feel free to post any links or other information that might get things started.

We've also got some posters here that are interested in the West Memphis Three case. Do you know of that one?
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[cami]

there's a lot of unexplained things. I'm on the fence too. What about a bloody fingerprint that they cannot match to anyone? Why was so little of the boys blood found on Darlie's PJ'S? Her blood was UNDERNEATHE theirs on her shirt. She had a lot of blood on her but VERY LITTLE was the boys. Why would she slice her neck first and then the boys? Why is her cut on her throat from right to left when she's right handed? It would feel much more natural to slice your throat left to right instead.

Those and more are my unanswered questions. According to that book about the boys, there was more than one knife used to kill them. Thus an explanation was given as to why she was only charged with one, not two murders. Because the murder weapons were supposedly different.

I'll think of more questions later.
I'm convinced enough that there is a SLIGHT possibility that she may be innocent. Based on that, I don't think she should be on death row because of those questions.

" I'm on the fence too. What about a bloody fingerprint that they cannot match to anyone? Why was so little of the boys blood found on Darlie's PJ'S? Her blood was UNDERNEATHE theirs on her shirt. She had a lot of blood on her but VERY LITTLE was the boys. Why would she slice her neck first and then the boys? Why is her cut on her throat from right to left when she's right handed? It would feel much more natural to slice your throat left to right instead."



The boys had seepage wounds not spurting so you wouldn't expect that their blood shot out all over her nightshirt. She had cast-off blood on the back and front shoulder of her nightshirt indicating blood was dripping off the knife, as she raised it, onto her shirt.

As DP explained, one of the boys, Damon (DP said Devon she got the name incorrect that's all) moved from his original position towards the entry door, he was then stabbed again so if she had already cut her neck, his blood would lay over hers.

"Those and more are my unanswered questions. According to that book about the boys, there was more than one knife used to kill them. Thus an explanation was given as to why she was only charged with one, not two murders. Because the murder weapons were supposedly different."

Only Damon's blood was found on the knife along with Darlie's so this is used by supporter Chris Brown to allege there were two knives. But they only tested I think it was four spots on the knife. I wonder if they removed the handle if they would find Devon's blood. But it was only one knife that was used, not two.

Darlie rinsed that knife under the tap in the kitchen sink, IMO, the luminol showed quite a clean up, so I believe she rinsed blood off it before she cut herself and then had to stab Damon again because he moved. Their blood mixed with hers is found on the backsplash. Chris Brown is not an investigator nor is he schooled in forensics so I would be careful with what you believe from his book. It's good for the pics though.

As for the bloody fingerprint, it's small, smudged and likely to remain unidentifiable. It's expert against expert on this print and Darlie is not excluded from it. Even one of her own experts, Dr. Jantz, can't exclude "a woman" from having made the print. However his findings were not accepted by the appeal court. You really do need to read the transcripts on this print to understand it. Another poster at gac, who is brilliant, helped me to understand it.

 

[aRnd2it]

She's about two years behind in the appeals process because of the transcript errors.

(sigh), that puts her date with the Grim Reaper around 2015. :sick:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

(sigh), that puts her date with the Grim Reaper around 2015. :sick:

Hi! Welcome to Websleuths. While I definately believe with my heart and soul that Darlie deserves the needle, I'm not going to be dancing around and laughing when it happens. The amount of grief that this woman has brought to those who love her sickens me. While I don't blame her mother for supporting her, I think Darlie Lynn owes it to her to tell her the truth. I don't doubt that Mrs. Kee would still be there for her, but my God, the woman has been through enough. I also firmly believe that Darlie's soul may still be saved, she's going to have to confess and ask for forgiveness and not just from God.

There are a number of people in other countries who are involved in this case because they're simply opposed to the death penalty. They don't really care if she rots in prison, they just don't want her to be executed. She's going to string these people along as long as they'll allow her to.

 

[KatzHome]

OK Jeana ~ you may have gotten me hooked... I don't know very much about this case ~ I'm still on the fence ~ I don't know whether or not she killed her two little boys ~ I think I'll be spending a few weeks reading over here, trying to decide. Last night I was reading a little about Brian Pardo and an article that believes she is is innocent ~ I've already said a prayer or two, that if this is true, to please help get her out...

And it's funny ~ as much as I know Scott Peterson to be guilty ~ and as much as I think the circumstancial evidence to be totally damning and so worth convicting him ~ I question the circumstancial evidence in this case ~ I really do have to read more about it.

Carla Faye Tucker's name was mentioned on this thread ~ I happen to be one of the people who rejoice in her conversion ~ I favored clemency for her ~ but am satisfied that she's moved on to new life in Christ ~ Who's Mercy is neverending.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Glad to see you here!!! There's a lot of reading to do with regard to this case - that's the good part! That most of the transcripts are available is the best thing for anyone who doesn't know a lot about this case.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to holler!!

 

[KatzHome]

Yeah ~ I saw that Jeana... I think I read last night that you have the transcripts on CD ~ were they posted here at WebSleuths? I saw a link to another site :doh: that I didn't bookmark that I'll have to see about finding again if transcripts aren't here.

:blowkiss: And thanks for the welcome!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

You can find the transcripts on her website:

www.fordarlieroutier.org

 

[Texana]

I've been taking advantage of the holidays to catch up on reading on this forum.

I've always thought the evidence against Darlie is so overwhelming. but just going her through her multiple stories is a reminder.

And like Scott Peterson, her lack of any sign of true grief afterwards on multiple occasions and opportunities, is most telling.

Thinking of what she did and what she is makes me physically ill sometimes.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

NEWS FLASH!!


A member of another website posted that she heard on the news last night that Darlie has lost yet another appeal. This is pretty serious. I'm trying to get confirmation. This was the fastest one so far. Not good for Darlie & Co.

 

[Peake]

Is this still at State level or has it gone up to the Federal courts yet?

Cheers,
Pea

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Is this still at State level or has it gone up to the Federal courts yet?

Cheers,
Pea

State, but this may have been it for her in Texas.

 

[Peake]

Found this entry on Texas Court of Criminal Appeals site (http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/handdown.asp?FullDate=20041201)

WR-59,920-02 ROUTIER, DARLIE LYNN DALLAS COUNTY

HC RELIEF DENIED WITH WRITTEN ORDER/OPINION - PER CURIAM

NON-PUBLISHED

Regards,
Pea