Darlie Routier's Appeals & Court Rulings

[Goody]

Being a resident of Texas, I can tell you unequivocally that I hate to see another dollar of taxpayer money wasted on a new trial for Darlie. I think here in Texas there is a huge possibility that there are actually some innocent people sitting in Texas prisons. If someone is going to get a new trial, I would hope it would be someone more deserving than someone who I think is guilty, was proven guilty by a jury of her peers, and who had a huge mound of evidence that pointed to her guilt. I understand there were problems with the trial transcript and that could cause a Federal Judge some consternation. However, I will never find myself hoping for a new trial for a woman who murdered two of her children in a cold-blooded fashion.

You must think she will be acquitted in trial number two. I don't think she will be. The blood evidence is too strong against her. And the defense has never been able to come up with an actual test to show how the blood could have landed on her shirt in the same way as that cast off blood did. If they can't prove that, I don't see any way at all that she could be acquitted. Your worries are unfounded. A second trial could end up solving Devon's murder and Darin's role, whatever it might have been. I would love to see that cleared up.

 

[Goody]

HeartofTexas, I'm a Texan too, and I couldn't believe how angry and sure of her guilt people became after the silly string incident.

To me she looked beside herself with grief. I've seen people grieving - laughing - hysterically, or sitting stone faced without expression. No one grieves the same, .

I don't see how you can see grief in Darlie in that SS video. Her eyes are sparkling as if she is having the time of her life. Her face is not puffy nor are her eyes, there is no redness showing she had been crying earlier. In the TV interview following it, her expression is serious but her lip never trembles, no tears fill her eyes, and she shows no sign of it "getting to her". She just looks off into the distance after Darin does. She is able to talk about it in a calm, clear languaged way. If you didn't know better, you'd think she was talking about something that happened to a friend at work rather than her own children right before her eyes.

and the public decided because she was dancing around shooting off silly string, she was the monster that killed her kids.

And there went the jury pool.

Bull. All high profile murder cases are publicized and most still manage to get a jury willing to weigh the evidence. For you to say that the jury found her guilty because of a video, that none of the crime scene evidence mattered is minimizing everyone's effort, esp the jury's. The blood evidence all pointed to her and still does. That is not going to change. A new trial is a second chance for her to do the right thing and use the opportunity to save herself from death row. It is not a second chance for her to try to blow smoke up everyone's butt. If she does that, she will lose again because the evidence is against her. The jury will want to hear remorse so they can justify not taking her life. It was a horrible crime. Whatever was going on with her that night needs to be brought out front and center so mitigating circumstances can be considered. Darlie may think she is good at convincing people she is innocent, but the truth is she is not. It is easy to sway people who don't look at the evidence. But in a trial that is what they do. They not only look at it but they scrutinize it. They aren't going to believe her just because she gives them a wide eyed look and speaks soft like a child. This is really serious business and if she wants to save her life, she'd better wake up and smell the roses if she gets a second chance.

 

[beesy]

HeartofTexas, I'm a Texan too, and I couldn't believe how angry and sure of her guilt people became after the silly string incident.
To me she looked beside herself with grief. I've seen people grieving - laughing - hysterically, or sitting stone faced without expression. No one grieves the same, and the public decided because she was dancing around shooting off silly string, she was the monster that killed her kids.
And there went the jury pool.

That is fascinating that all you see is a woman beside herself with grief? At which point? Goody and I unfortunatly know whereof we speak as far as grief over a child goes. I know full-well nobody grieves the same, but there are stages of grief that you must wade thru. You might handle them differently, but you must take all of the steps. I was one who dismissed the Silly String tape saying "people do all sorts of weird things". I was unsure of Darlie's guilt until I started investigating all of this. Again, I say: the Silly String Party did not convict her. Are you aware the trial was not held in Dallas? Are you aware that Darlie and her family made a deal with a local news station to tape the birthday party? Darlie did that to herself. She was well aware she was being taped. Show me the grief, please. Beside herself with grief, no less. Where?

 

[beesy]

Katherine, I found the silly string incident all but appalling, but it had nothing to do with me thinking she's guilty. It didn't help, obviously, but she was convicted based upon the evidence presented at trial.

Methinks we are beating a dead horse though

 

[beesy]

Bull. All high profile murder cases are publicized and most still manage to get a jury willing to weigh the evidence. For you to say that the jury found her guilty because of a video, that none of the crime scene evidence mattered is minimizing everyone's effort, esp the jury's. The blood evidence all pointed to her and still does. That is not going to change. A new trial is a second chance for her to do the right thing and use the opportunity to save herself from death row. It is not a second chance for her to try to blow smoke up everyone's butt. If she does that, she will lose again because the evidence is against her. The jury will want to hear remorse so they can justify not taking her life. It was a horrible crime. Whatever was going on with her that night needs to be brought out front and center so mitigating circumstances can be considered. Darlie may think she is good at convincing people she is innocent, but the truth is she is not. It is easy to sway people who don't look at the evidence. But in a trial that is what they do. They not only look at it but they scrutinize it. They aren't going to believe her just because she gives them a wide eyed look and speaks soft like a child. This is really serious business and if she wants to save her life, she'd better wake up and smell the roses if she gets a second chance.

Very well said luv

 

[Casshew]

Being a resident of Texas, I can tell you unequivocally that I hate to see another dollar of taxpayer money wasted on a new trial for Darlie.

:clap:

I'm from Canada and I feel the same way! what a waste of time & money

 

[armywife210]

There are stages of grief, this is known. You do not skip steps.

This is untrue. In my first year of nursing school when I was going to be a nurse we were taught about the stages of grief. The first thing that we were taught about them is that they don't follow an order. When going through grief you may skip to the last stage before hitting any other stages. You may go through those stages in any order at all, and you may repeat stages you have been through, and you may entirely skip a stage somewhere and never really go back to it.

 

[beesy]

This is untrue. In my first year of medical school when I was going to be a nurse we were taught about the stages of grief. The first thing that we were taught about them is that they don't follow an order. When going through grief you may skip to the last stage before hitting any other stages. You may go through those stages in any order at all, and you may repeat stages you have been through, and you may entirely skip a stage somewhere and never really go back to it.

Ok, if that's your take on it, but how do you explain Darlie clearly at the acceptance stage within 6 days of the murders?

 

[CW]

I believe Darlie should get a new trial because everyone is intitled to a fair and just trial and she did not receive that. The first court reporter screwed up the trial transcripts big time and yes they brought in another court reporter to redue the trranscripts but there was one or 2 tape recordings of the trial that were missing so there is no way they could redue a full and complete version of the trial transcripts. I'm not saying she is innocent of murdering her two precious boys but everyone does deserve a fair trial and I know how important the record is for appeals and this way her supporters would no longer be able to say she didn't receive a fair trial.

 

[armywife210]

Ok, if that's your take on it, but how do you explain Darlie clearly at the acceptance stage within 6 days of the murders?

I have personally seen people come to acceptance immediately. In my experience it is the minds way of dealing with something that is too huge to deal with at that moment. Later, when the person is better equipped to face the pain, they deal with what they can AS they can. The mind is an amazing thing in that it self preserves. This is also a cause of TA.

 

[Goody]

This is untrue. In my first year of nursing school when I was going to be a nurse we were taught about the stages of grief. The first thing that we were taught about them is that they don't follow an order. When going through grief you may skip to the last stage before hitting any other stages. You may go through those stages in any order at all, and you may repeat stages you have been through, and you may entirely skip a stage somewhere and never really go back to it.

I have never known anyone to do that, but even if what you say is true, how do you explain anyone going thru such a traumatic event as witnessing the brutal stabbing deaths of their own children and fully accepting their deaths within minutes afterwards? At the hospital she never asked about her children even once. She was described as looking at Damon's deceased body without expression change or emotion. When I was a kid, the little girl across the street died of leukemia. I remember watching their house to see them when they came out the first time afterwards, and when they did the mother had aged tremendously. Her hair had literally turned gray between then and the time I had seen her before the child died, which was only a few days. I remember standing at my window and breathing an inaudible "wow." Now I don't expect to see Darlie turn gray but certainly SOME sign of concern on her face would be appropriate.

Of course, if we allow that Darlie might have gone through the stages of grief in a different order than most others, when did she go thru denial and anger? I think the only stage i have ever seen or heard her go thru has been "acceptance." By the way, do you remember what the other two stages are?

 

[Goody]

I have personally seen people come to acceptance immediately. In my experience it is the minds way of dealing with something that is too huge to deal with at that moment. Later, when the person is better equipped to face the pain, they deal with what they can AS they can. The mind is an amazing thing in that it self preserves. This is also a cause of TA.

Traumatic amnesia, esp to the extent Darlie describes, from purely emotional trauma is extremely rare and I am sure you know that. And as rare as it is to occur, it is even more rare to last more than 6 months. Here we are going on ten years. There is just no reason for anyone to believe it!

 

[beesy]

I have personally seen people come to acceptance immediately. In my experience it is the minds way of dealing with something that is too huge to deal with at that moment. Later, when the person is better equipped to face the pain, they deal with what they can AS they can. The mind is an amazing thing in that it self preserves. This is also a cause of TA.

I have personally gone thru one or two of these traumas myself. As Goody said before, what were the circumstances of these people who immediately accepted death? Murder, car accident, SIDS, sudden illness, or cancer or some other illness which had gone on and on. When my grandmother died, we reached acceptance right away. She had Alzheimer's and we had already been mourning her for years. I know about the mind protecting itself. However, I find it impossible to believe that a sudden death of a loved one can be immediately met with true acceptance. TRUE acceptance. I know there were times when I might have seemed resigned to my son's death, but I wasn't, still aren't. I am very interested in your take on this matter though. Where might I find some examples of this?

 

[beesy]

Goody

I do believe she has pushed some of our buttons

 

[armywife210]

Of course, if we allow that Darlie might have gone through the stages of grief in a different order than most others, when did she go thru denial and anger? I think the only stage i have ever seen or heard her go thru has been "acceptance." By the way, do you remember what the other two stages are?

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Those are the 5 we were taught. Perhaps getting thrown in jail, and spending 10 years trying to prove your innocence would throw the "schedule" off. A person can only have as much emotion as they have energy to harbor that emotion. Maybe it hurts too much to visit the other stages of grief, and her mind will only do the acceptance right now. Also, we don't know what she does when she is off camera. Some people cannot grieve in public, it's just not within them.

 

[Goody]

I believe Darlie should get a new trial because everyone is intitled to a fair and just trial and she did not receive that. The first court reporter screwed up the trial transcripts big time and yes they brought in another court reporter to redue the trranscripts but there was one or 2 tape recordings of the trial that were missing so there is no way they could redue a full and complete version of the trial transcripts. I'm not saying she is innocent of murdering her two precious boys but everyone does deserve a fair trial and I know how important the record is for appeals and this way her supporters would no longer be able to say she didn't receive a fair trial.

The trial transcripts are a problem because they can't be certified. The question is does it rise to the level of being a big enough problem that the federal appellate courts feel the only remedy is to hold a new trial. I think that is a possibility.

However, I do think Darlie got a fair trial. There are some areas that make me frown, but the evidence that was most compelling against her was pretty solid. Videos and character testimony, lying nurses, etc. have no impact whatsoever on the blood evidence or the fiber evidence, both of which pointed straight at Darlie. You can throw everything out but that and you still have a guilty verdict coming in.

Where I think she got a bum deal is the punishment phase. There was some evidence that mitigating circumstances might be involved. I suppose it was the fault of her claims of innocence that prevented her attys from presenting more evidence in that vein, but I do believe she didn't qualify for the death penalty. I don't know if there was enough evidence to show that to a federal court or not, or even if her attorneys will bring that up in light of her claims of innocence. She should realize though that if she can't prove the blood evidence wrong in a major way, she is screwed if she doesn't go for the mitigating circumstances. I really don't think she is ever going to beat this charge but she might save her life if she is smart enough to fess up and plead down.

 

[beesy]

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Those are the 5 we were taught. Perhaps getting thrown in jail, and spending 10 years trying to prove your innocence would throw the "schedule" off. A person can only have as much emotion as they have energy to harbor that emotion. Maybe it hurts too much to visit the other stages of grief, and her mind will only do the acceptance right now. Also, we don't know what she does when she is off camera. Some people cannot grieve in public, it's just not within them.

http://www.healingheart.net/grief.htm

This site centers on the sudden death of a child. Darlie lost 2 in one night! It says that shock and denial are the brain's coping mechanism, not skipping along to acceptance in 5 mins. Please have a look-see at the rest of the article. I realize that steps can return and so forth, but you must work thru all of them. I particually like the Hope/Acceptance chapter. Nowhere does it say this can be reached right away after a sudden death. In my eyes(and many others), the only way this can be done is if the death was already thought about before.
SHOCK / DENIAL

Just as your brain uses shock and numbness to cope with physical trauma, shock and denial is the coping mechanism it uses for mental and/or emotional trauma. The death of a child is a severely traumatic experience for a lot of reasons.

First... We love our children very deeply so, of course, losing them affects us deeply.

Second... Let's face it... Children are not supposed to die! It just goes against all that we expect as normal and natural course of events.

Yes, there are many more reasons but the last one I will name here is... Our dreams and hopes for the future are attached very closely to our lives with our children. The death of our child means the death of those dreams as well.

So because of these things and more, our minds need time... lots of time to adjust to the reality of what has happened. Shock and denial is the natural way in which this happens.

This stage may last just a few minutes, a few days or even weeks or longer. Like all of the grief stages, we may find ourselves in and out of this stage at different times. The key is to understand it's o.k. if this happens as long as we are working on our grief.

 

[CW]

I totaly agree with you 110%. With the blood evidence and her changing her story over and over again I don't believe it will change the outcome but the record is very important and I do believe that will be what get's her a new trial granted from the federal appeals court.

 

[armywife210]

I have personally gone thru one or two of these traumas myself. As Goody said before, what were the circumstances of these people who immediately accepted death? Murder, car accident, SIDS, sudden illness, or cancer or some other illness which had gone on and on. When my grandmother died, we reached acceptance right away. She had Alzheimer's and we had already been mourning her for years. I know about the mind protecting itself. However, I find it impossible to believe that a sudden death of a loved one can be immediately met with true acceptance. TRUE acceptance. I know there were times when I might have seemed resigned to my son's death, but I wasn't, still aren't. I am very interested in your take on this matter though. Where might I find some examples of this?

My aunt lost her 4 year old in a car accident. Another aunt lost her 6 year old to leukemia, my best childhood friend died from leukemia, my cousin that was more like my sister died of ovarian cancer, my dad died of stomach cancer that was diagnosed 2 months before his death. One of my best friends in high school died in a car accident. Another of my closest friends in high school was kidnapped, raped, and murdered. My cousin shot himself in the head at the age of 17. My close friends two little boys died in a fire.
That's what I can think of right now. I have seen death. I have grieved and witnessed grief. I have even gone through the grief of my own life ending as I have come close to death more than a couple of times.

 

[beesy]

My aunt lost her 4 year old in a car accident. Another aunt lost her 6 year old to leukemia, my best childhood friend died from leukemia, my cousin that was more like my sister died of ovarian cancer, my dad died of stomach cancer that was diagnosed 2 months before his death. One of my best friends in high school died in a car accident. Another of my closest friends in high school was kidnapped, raped, and murdered. My cousin shot himself in the head at the age of 17. My close friends two little boys died in a fire.
That's what I can think of right now. I have seen death. I have grieved and witnessed grief. I have even gone through the grief of my own life ending as I have come close to death more than a couple of times.

Sorry about all of that. I'm sure most of us have experienced death and grief if we've lived until adulthood. But, I sort of meant a professional article or research, something along those lines.