Darlie Routier's Appeals & Court Rulings

[HeartofTexas]

This is untrue. In my first year of nursing school when I was going to be a nurse we were taught about the stages of grief. The first thing that we were taught about them is that they don't follow an order. When going through grief you may skip to the last stage before hitting any other stages. You may go through those stages in any order at all, and you may repeat stages you have been through, and you may entirely skip a stage somewhere and never really go back to it.

I agree totally, Armywife. That's what I learned also. Many people go straight into anger, whereas other people get stuck in denial. However, I always thought acceptance was the last step for everyone, but I may be wrong.

 

[beesy]

The Bible tells us to Celebrate with someone's passing. I don't know how I could ever celebrate my own childs death. BUT my Aunt and Uncle did it, she celebrated her child being with God.

Same child you were speaking of before? The mother who found peace one moment was crying the next? Was this the one hit by a car? Not to be harsh, but have you ever thought that what they did was odd? You said you've seen all sorts of grief, but why do you think that is ok. Not accusing your relatives of anything at all, but you do know that family killers do act inappropriatly at funerals sometimes. These are confessed killers I'm referring to, therefore looking back we can say, "yeah they did behave strangly".

My dads funeral was a celebration. In fact, at the end of the funeral, Dads coffin was brought out of the church to the tune of "I saw the light" By Hank Williams. Ofcourse, he was 62 when he died, though as strong and healthy as anyone could be right up until the end. AND my dad was a huge optimist and was always out to make everyone laugh, even when he was dying.Is the bday party still available for viewing somewhere?

Well, if you're gonna throw God into this, then I should refrain lest I be torched, but I won't . I do not care what the Bible says, losing a child is not the way things are supposed to go. Sure, if a child has been ill and near death a long time, then with death came freedom for it's soul. When I spoke with my Rev. and planned my son's service, even he said by son had been taken too early and there was no celebration, just grief, and one day peace that he was an Angel looking after us. The Rev. had a stillborn son and never once felt that he should rejoice that his full-term son whom he was never allowed to know was in God's hands so soon. I sit smack dab in the middle of the Southern Bible Belt. Except for certain sects, I've never heard any pastor mention celebrating a sudden death, especically that of a child.
Also a tid-bit, Darlie may have believed in God, most likely because most Americans do, but she and Darin did not even have a church. They all of people, would certainly not be celebrating their boys going to Heaven. I hope you do realize that most people don't think that way, especially over a sudden death of a young person.

 

[beesy]

Is the bday party still available for viewing somewhere?

There's a snippet on the juticefordarle site. Maybe on the 20/20 program? It's in there somewhere. Not alot of it though

 

[Goody]

No, just the opposite, Goody. I think she will be found guilty again, which is why I think it's a total waste of money for her to be re-tried. I think there are people in Texas prisons who got a bum wrap the FIRST time they were tried and who actually deserve a chance at a second trial. That's where I prefer our tax dollars go.

The judges' can't base their opinion on some unknown group who may or may not be more deserving of an appeal. Each person deserves the same rights to appeal and remedy If the court did a poor job, even on a technical issue, then it needs to be corrected. If that costs the state a new trial, then that is the price they will have to pay.

Sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me on that issue. Everybody in the case knows what the rules are. I am not sure they could have safe guarded themselves from a faulty court reporter, but maybe that just proves we have given them too much control and power over the public record in the first place. It also shows us how helpful cameras in the courtroom can be. If the first trial had been video taped, the record would have been perserved in spite of the court reporter's problems.

 

[armywife210]

Same child you were speaking of before? The mother who found peace one moment was crying the next? Was this the one hit by a car? Not to be harsh, but have you ever thought that what they did was odd? You said you've seen all sorts of grief, but why do you think that is ok. Not accusing your relatives of anything at all, but you do know that family killers do act inappropriatly at funerals sometimes.
QUOTE]

Yes, my cousin was killed in a car accident, and that is the one whose mother rejoiced one minute and cried hysterically the next. She knew in her mind where her baby was, and because of that she was able to celebrate. However the pain was intense, and overwhelmed her at times but she never showed it in public. My family is extremely close to God, we are Baptist and some are non denominational, and we know that with every passing, there is presence with the Lord. One moment with God outweighs any joy that is found here on Earth. For that reason, the Bible says to rejoice for them. My Aunt certainly had nothing to do with my cousins death, unless she could somehow control the drunk driver that came into her lane and hit her.
As far as Christianity and Church. One does not have to attend Church to be a Christian and know that their children are with God.

 

[armywife210]

She was put on trial for murder. Her reactions have to be judged. There is no way around it. I agree that usually we shouldn't judge people for the way they react to crisis,but when someone is on trial for murder they just can't be afforded that luxury.

As for life for the boys in the Routier home, I don't think it was as picture perfect as the family tries to pass off. Neighbors said that the boys ran all over the neighborhood daily. Some said she locked the boys outside sometimes. That is why they would climb in the window after popsickles. They were probably hot and thirsty. They were only 5 and 6 yet were seen riding their bikes two or three blocks away. Some talked about them playing unsupervised at construction sites in the subdivision. People thought them to be too dangerous for young boys to be playing at.

One neighbor said the afternoon of the murders, the boys had emptied the hottub water out halfway (this was came up at the trial, too,and was acknowledged by both parents) and that Darlie could be heard cursing at them, saying something about you little mf'ers are really gonna get it now.

Just about all the book authors wrote about various statements from people close to them that did not describe the cookie baking PTA mom they tried to pass off. People where Darin's shop was talked about the boys playing on the busy street unsupervised while they visited the shop. I think the boys were typically used to looking out for themselves. I think both parents were lax in supervision.

I also think Darlie was moody and her moods determined her parenting skills. I think she sent a lot of mixed signals to the boys and they didn't always know what their boundaries were. That would make parenting much more difficult to cope with. I do believe she had some problems in that area, but I don't think she would have committed this crime had it not been for several mitigating factors that led to a sequence of events all coming together at the same time and ultimately pushing her over the line that night.

People like to talk though. Esecially when fingers are being pointed at someone, the whole world seems to have something to say about those people.
If Darlie did talk to and treat her children that way, that is TERRIBLE. But I wonder why no one ever called Child Protective Services on her. There is no report on her, that would be the first thing that was brought up if there was. Certainly if I saw this going on in my neighborhood, I would take those little boys into my home and talk with them about what was going on, and make a report to CPS. Or at the very least, I would just make an anonymous report to CPS without talking to the boys, that way there is no way the Routier's could find out it was me.
That's the kind of neighborhood I live in, one just like where they lived. And let me tell you something, down here everyone is protective of everyone's kids. Right now we are in Southern Oklahoma, but even down in Texas everyone seemed to be looking out for everyone's kids. And I am not talking about on base either. I have never lived on base, just civillian communities. I cannot imagine children being treated like that, so many people knowing, and no one saying anything, especially in a neighborhood like this.

 

[beesy]

Yes, my cousin was killed in a car accident, and that is the one whose mother rejoiced one minute and cried hysterically the next. She knew in her mind where her baby was, and because of that she was able to celebrate. However the pain was intense, and overwhelmed her at times but she never showed it in public. My family is extremely close to God, we are Baptist and some are non denominational, and we know that with every passing, there is presence with the Lord. One moment with God outweighs any joy that is found here on Earth. For that reason, the Bible says to rejoice for them. My Aunt certainly had nothing to do with my cousins death, unless she could somehow control the drunk driver that came into her lane and hit her.
As far as Christianity and Church. One does not have to attend Church to be a Christian and know that their children are with God.

I just want to say again that I wasn't accusing your aunt of having anything to do with her child's death. I just wanted to bring up that it is true when a family member kills another, that they often act oddly at the funernal(in reference to Darlie).
I'm not getting much into the God stuff at all, only to say that our Rev. who conducted Danny's service and who lost a son himself is Southern Baptist, hard to get more Baptist than that. Never once did he suggest celebrating. That is why I mentioned certain sects. There are those more Evangelical groups who see death the way your family sees it. But you must realize that the majorty of people do not find it a joyous occasion, whether their loved one is in God's hand or not, especially a sudden death. To do that I believe a person would have to be deeply involved with the teachings of the Bible, and I don't think Darlie was at the time. Don't apply all of the things you've seen around you to Darlie. Try to stand back and look at it as it is.

 

[cami]

What I felt is different from what her mother felt, or what the rest of our family felt. I am just saying, without trying to be overly confrontational, that everyone DOES grieve differently. Her mom says things like "she is in Heaven playing now" all of the time. She can be at peace with it one moment and crying hysterically the next. The latter happens when no one is around. She can't openly grieve.
Me, I am a fountain. I hit a bunny on the road once, and I cried so hard I had to pull over. Heaven help us when I am pregnant. When someone dies, especially a child, it hurts and I cry. BUT I wear my heart on my sleeve, and never does anyone wonder how I am feeling. We aren't all wired like that.

It seems to me in these high profile cases that when the alleged perpetrator of the crime publicly acts as if they could care less their loved ones have been murdered out comes the tried and true "everyone grieves differently" to explain away their lack of emotion.

Then look at the parents/siblings of those who have been murdered. Did Sharon Rocha grieve, Kim and Ron Goldman, the Browns, David Smith? We saw those people in agony over the murders of their loved ones. I am still waiting for Darin and Darlie to show some emotion that they loved those boys and grieve their loss. I think Darin was embarrassed by that silly string party if his body language is any judge but still no remorse or grief shown during that interview. Yes, it could have been edited out I realize that.

 

[cami]

Well, if you're gonna throw God into this, then I should refrain lest I be torched, but I won't . I do not care what the Bible says, losing a child is not the way things are supposed to go. Sure, if a child has been ill and near death a long time, then with death came freedom for it's soul. When I spoke with my Rev. and planned my son's service, even he said by son had been taken too early and there was no celebration, just grief, and one day peace that he was an Angel looking after us. The Rev. had a stillborn son and never once felt that he should rejoice that his full-term son whom he was never allowed to know was in God's hands so soon. I sit smack dab in the middle of the Southern Bible Belt. Except for certain sects, I've never heard any pastor mention celebrating a sudden death, especically that of a child.
Also a tid-bit, Darlie may have believed in God, most likely because most Americans do, but she and Darin did not even have a church. They all of people, would certainly not be celebrating their boys going to Heaven. I hope you do realize that most people don't think that way, especially over a sudden death of a young person.

Beesy, I think's it more celebrating the person's life, not their death. We do that in Catholocism now. At one time, we used to have these heavy duty funerals with the incense and the whole bit but now it's a celebration of that person's life, not their death so it's a lot lighter.

 

[beesy]

Beesy, I think's it more celebrating the person's life, not their death. We do that in Catholocism now. At one time, we used to have these heavy duty funerals with the incense and the whole bit but now it's a celebration of that person's life, not their death so it's a lot lighter.

Oh I know that cami. I think that's wonderful if the person lived a nice long life and died peacefully or if a young person had been bogged down with sickness for years, that's not exactly what armywife210 said "One moment with God outweighs any joy that is found here on Earth. For that reason, the Bible says to rejoice for them." To me that doesn't sound like celebrating one's life, but rejoicing for them their death. Like I said, don't get me going on God, but I think the 2 of you are saying different things. Yours makes a lot of sense and I think alot of people do that. Tell silly tales of their passed loved one. Even with my son's death, the Rev. found some humor in our nickname for him. We did not rejoice however, nor we were expected to.

 

[Goody]

People like to talk though. Esecially when fingers are being pointed at someone, the whole world seems to have something to say about those people.
If Darlie did talk to and treat her children that way, that is TERRIBLE. But I wonder why no one ever called Child Protective Services on her. There is no report on her, that would be the first thing that was brought up if there was. Certainly if I saw this going on in my neighborhood, I would take those little boys into my home and talk with them about what was going on, and make a report to CPS. Or at the very least, I would just make an anonymous report to CPS without talking to the boys, that way there is no way the Routier's could find out it was me.
That's the kind of neighborhood I live in, one just like where they lived. And let me tell you something, down here everyone is protective of everyone's kids. Right now we are in Southern Oklahoma, but even down in Texas everyone seemed to be looking out for everyone's kids. And I am not talking about on base either. I have never lived on base, just civillian communities. I cannot imagine children being treated like that, so many people knowing, and no one saying anything, especially in a neighborhood like this.

I don't think the flaws in Darlie's parenting skills rose to the level of reporting her to authorities. Every neighborhood has one family in it that lets their kids run wild or gives them a lot more freedom for their age than most would think appropriate, but that is not enough cause to report them. It is hard to separate the gossip from fact but most of the above was testified to. Actually not many people did come forward with stories about them, I found that to be odd. I think there may have been some fear of Darin since he was not charged with anything. I would have liked to hear from more people to make it easier to sort out what was probably true. As it is most did seem to say the same basic things though.

 

[Mama-cita]

I agree with Goody. I would also like to add that a lot of times people mind there own business when they see people practicing parenting styles they don't agree with. I am sure if people had suspected outright abuse, someone at school would have reported something. I don't know that I would have likely reported it to the authorities and I am a pediatric nurse. I would cauton the boys and I might mention to the parent if I knew them casually "I saw the kids at the construction site and was a little concerned for their safety..." type thing. But to call social services, this is a serious thing and opens a lot of doors. And it's not like you could stay anonymous (if you reported anonymous) because you would have to testify at hearings etc as to what you witnessed. I think people today don't get involved, especially when they don't know the people from Adam. From what I gather, the Routiers weren't the most liked people on the block. Calling social services because you saw someone's kid riding their bike alone or you heard your neighbor call her kids m-fers seems a little too invasive and nosy. Cussing is part of the vernacular for some people, it's just the way they talk. I have had patients that were three years old tell me "F--- off, Freak!" They are just repeating what they heard. Usually they had ignorant, uneducated parents. However, cussing at your kids, or teaching them that language, while repugnant to most, is not a crime. And if social services were called everytime parents weren't minding their kids, then their phone would be off the hook with calls! They can't handle the cases of kids who are obviously getting the crap kicked out of them, much less those whose mommies are too self-absorbed to know their whereabouts. I think the bottom line is that Darlie didn;t know what to do with those boys. She never took the time to sit and play with them and take an active role in their interests. So they entertained themselves. And I think she was fine with that because it meant they were out of her hair for a little while. It may have seemed innocuous to her, "Oh well, if they aren't playing with anything dangerous, if they aren't hurting anyone else..." So she let them roam because it gave her a lot more time to tease-comb her hair and "fluff" her *advertiser censored*...oh and to work on her tan, that pesky thong line was a real nuisance...

 

[Spywhere]

I believe Darlie should get a new trial because everyone is intitled to a fair and just trial and she did not receive that. The first court reporter screwed up the trial transcripts big time and yes they brought in another court reporter to redue the trranscripts but there was one or 2 tape recordings of the trial that were missing so there is no way they could redue a full and complete version of the trial transcripts. I'm not saying she is innocent of murdering her two precious boys but everyone does deserve a fair trial and I know how important the record is for appeals and this way her supporters would no longer be able to say she didn't receive a fair trial.

:clap: You Go Windchime you really are super. They should've of tried her for both "boys". Where's justice for Devon, we have to assume she killed Devon. Greg Davis held back on that one for his own selfish reason. He wanted death, he was probably carrying the needle in his briefcase. I too live in a DP state and you can bet your sweet bippy people, she would've of been tried for killing both of those little boys. It would've of been a DP trial, but most likely she would of probably gotten LWOP. Because she was "sick" she took a knife to her own throat. And then again, they would've gotten her "smitten coach" for conspiracy. Well all in all I believe it was an archaic trial. USA, use the death penalty fairly.

 

[CyberLaw]

The one line that comes to mind: Darlie said in an interview:

The boy(s) lived a full life...........(all of 5 years and 6 years)that comment took me aback.

Her eyes were sparkling and she was HAPPY at the graveside, that in no way shape or form, says "grieving" mother who had two children "brutally" murdered just mere feet from where she slept and was surposed to protect them.

No way......from most people perspective.....parents are VERY upset when a child dies under any circumstances, let alone two very young children, murdered by a knife, multiple stab wounds right beside you.

Darlie talks about the two boys as if they were objects, that were lost.

Not two beautiful, young boys that were brutally murdered.

Does anyone have information about the latest appeal.......I just don't think that her appeal will be affirmed.

 

[lauriej]

'goody's post'......"Bad News Folks"......#53.....oct 23/05.."quote:"

The oral arguments I was listening to was from March, 2002 for the state appellate court. So that is not a federal judge questioning the transcripts. It was a state judge who apparently ended up finding that the errors did not rise to a level sufficient to grant a new trial. So back to the waiting for the first signs of their federal arguments. grrrrrr...

..so there is no "latest appeal"

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am not sure, to be honest. Is it possible? I think so. Shock, perhaps the body's coping mechanism.
I am not the kind of person who could do that, or would do that. But I am a ball of emotion and my babies can't even walk out the door without me telling them I love them and hugging them.
I am going to be totally honest here, I know that I could be wrong about Darlie's guilt. That doesn't mean that I think she did it, but once in awhile I wonder what life was REALLY like for those boys behind closed doors. Not hearsay, but reality. And I have wavered on my opinion of guilt or innocence, and I may again.
At the same time, I do believe her reactions should not be judged.

Of course they should. The jury sitting on her murder trial had to take EVERYTHING into account when making up their mind.

 

[CyberLaw]

Armywife210:

Everything that is presented at trial is presented as evidence for trial. That is the purpose. The defense has ample ppportunity to object, make motions, exclude evidence, anything that is deemed "prejudical" etc.

The Judge determine what is "fair" for all concerned, and makes ruling based on that in his/her legal capacity and the "letter of the law".

So that is what appeals are for, you can ask other judges to review the finding of a gulity verdict as in "the course" of law.

But appeal judges are loate to "question" a judges finding on crediability and fact, because that original judge was present for the whole trial and has exclusive knowlege of credability and fact.

So yes everything presented at trial is relevant, or else it would not be presented at trial.............there would be no point...........

 

[SnootyVixen]

:clap: Where's justice for Devon, we have to assume she killed Devon. Greg Davis held back on that one for his own selfish reason. .

Me, Iam thinking he did not have the trial tobe about Devon because of the absense of Blood from Devon or fibers from Devon on the knife. Only was blood from Darlie and Damon and fibers from Darlie and Damon on knife.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

:clap: You Go Windchime you really are super. They should've of tried her for both "boys". Where's justice for Devon, we have to assume she killed Devon. Greg Davis held back on that one for his own selfish reason. He wanted death, he was probably carrying the needle in his briefcase. I too live in a DP state and you can bet your sweet bippy people, she would've of been tried for killing both of those little boys. It would've of been a DP trial, but most likely she would of probably gotten LWOP. Because she was "sick" she took a knife to her own throat. And then again, they would've gotten her "smitten coach" for conspiracy. Well all in all I believe it was an archaic trial. USA, use the death penalty fairly.

Honey, you don't have the first clue what you're talking about Its not uncommon at all to withhold a charge so that the defendant can be brought to trial a second time if something goes wrong the first time. What kind of justice would be had if he did bring her to trial on both charges and something happened? She'd be walking around free. What kind of justice is that? Moreover, unless you're the district attorney where you live, there's no possible way that you can say what would have been done in that jurisdiction. Because she was a selfish she took a knife to her two children FIRST and then to her own throat. Not deep enough though, was it? Everyone who matters knows on the day of her execution, that the State of Texas will most definately be executing her for BOTH murders.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Darlie talks about the two boys as if they were objects, that were lost.

Not two beautiful, young boys that were brutally murdered.

Does anyone have information about the latest appeal.......I just don't think that her appeal will be affirmed.

I say that anything that is say about what Darlie had said about anything at all is not known here by us. who knows what Darlie say about the boys. we cannot decide that she talk about them as objects when we don't even get to talk with her. Just goin by one statement or another? That nevers tell about a person and what is in their heart. It takes more. We don[t have more.

I agree about the appeal.