Day 2 The Pineapple in the Bowl/ 12 Days of JonBenet

[icedtea4me]

AndHence,

I termed this as asymmetric ponytails, and discussed it here on websleuths.

Autopsy Report, excerpt


The ponytails could have arrived either before going to bed, or if she never reached it, then after?


Steve Thomas, Interview excerpt, 1997



Lou Smit, Interview excerpt, 1998



The situation is similar to that of the size-6 Bloomingdales, i.e. BPD know if she wore ponytails to the White's Christmas Party, as they have the photos.

IMO, Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair for bed on Christmas Night. If not then we have, as per BDI All, courtesy of Kolar, Burke Ramsey applying the hair ties and ponytails.

The asymmetry of the ponytails is a small detail that links with the Bloomingdale size-12's along with Burke's long johns.

These are details that Patsy would never have allowed if she were staging the crime-scene.

Unless ... she was framing Burke?

.

Are you saying that if Patsy had done it, she would have made JonBenet's hair look like the symmetrical ponytails shown in the pic?

Bunches (also called twintails, angel wings, two ponytails, dog ears, or pigtails) are a hairstyle in which the hair is parted down the middle and gathered into two symmetrical bundles, like ponytails, secured near the scalp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunches

 

[AlGx]

Did they even find JB's fingerprints or unidentified fingerprints on the bowl?

 

[UKGuy]

Are you saying that if Patsy had done it, she would have made JonBenet's hair look like the symmetrical ponytails shown in the pic?

Bunches (also called twintails, angel wings, two ponytails, dog ears, or pigtails) are a hairstyle in which the hair is parted down the middle and gathered into two symmetrical bundles, like ponytails, secured near the scalp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunches

icedtea4me,
Nope, there is no implication regarding the symmetrical ponytails. Patsy may have dressed JonBenet in the ponytails, which is what I think, prior to her breakfast bar snack.

Yet alike the pineapple residue found in JonBenet, the ponytails quite likely contradict the parents version of events, since who added the ponytails to JonBenet's head?

As I mentioned this is simlar to the size-6 Bloomingdales, as BPD have the photos, so they can judge if JonBenet wore asymmetric ponytails to the White's Christmas Party?

Personally I doubt it, but who knows stranger things have turned up in this case, e.g. JonBenet wearing Burke's long johns!

I've seen women wearing their hair twisted to the side at the back referred to as asymmetric.

I just termed it that way, so to distinguish it from the usual left and right style.


.

 

[BBB167893]

Did they even find JB's fingerprints or unidentified fingerprints on the bowl?

No. That was one of the signs: she couldn't reach that bowl herself.

 

[HRP]

AndHence,

I termed this as asymmetric ponytails, and discussed it here on websleuths.

Autopsy Report, excerpt


The ponytails could have arrived either before going to bed, or if she never reached it, then after?


Steve Thomas, Interview excerpt, 1997



Lou Smit, Interview excerpt, 1998



The situation is similar to that of the size-6 Bloomingdales, i.e. BPD know if she wore ponytails to the White's Christmas Party, as they have the photos.

IMO, Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair for bed on Christmas Night. If not then we have, as per BDI All, courtesy of Kolar, Burke Ramsey applying the hair ties and ponytails.

The asymmetry of the ponytails is a small detail that links with the Bloomingdale size-12's along with Burke's long johns.

These are details that Patsy would never have allowed if she were staging the crime-scene.

Unless ... she was framing Burke?

.

In regard to the bolded above (which I did as reference), I had a question. Why do you term the ponytails as such?

Are there photos of her ponytails being asymetrical, as you have termed them?

There is this, which you note:

Autopsy Report, excerpt

The scalp is covered by long blonde hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and one in the lower back of the head secured by a blue elastic band.




The autopsy report, when I read it, indicates a typical double ponytail. One toward the top of the head to keep hair from face and eyes, and a second ponytail fashioned right below it in a lower position. This gives a "layered" effect to the hair. The higher ponytail drapes over with a shorter presentation of the hair (because it has a rubber band toward the top of the head). The lower pony tail (exactly below the higher ponytail) allows for that gathered hair to display longer in length. When the child stands, the ponytails complement each other and works best with longer hair.

They are not asymmetrical ponytails, as I read the autopsy report. They are two ponytails, one higher than the other, in line with each other at the midline of the head.

If there are photos contradicting this interpretation, I don't understand why the autopsy report clearly says one ponytail is higher and the other is lower.

 

[HRP]

I wanted to comment about the pineapple vs the fruit salad debate. The pineapple found had some rind of fresh pineapple (not the canned type) in her digestive tract - she ate cut fresh pineapple (is this confirmed in autopsy reports?). If the pineapple in the bowl was fresh and contains the rind (meaning it is not canned) then a conclusive DNA could be done to obtain hybridization characteristics (specific to farm/country of origin, etc.) as well as simply matching the DNA itself for the pineapple to tie it to an exact match.

As for the cherry bits and grape bits with grape skin. Those are the fibrous parts of those particular fruits. Perhaps they were lower down her intestine, perhaps even in the colon (which can be called the digestive tract too).

If grape skins and cherry bits (skin, fibrous matter) was found in the lower tract and fresh pineapple in the upper tract, then it would not be lying saying there were cherry bits, grape bits, skins, found with pineapple in her digestive tract.

But you can also say Spain and New York City are on the map too, if you know what I mean. Same planet, different histories.

 

[BBB167893]

I wanted to comment about the pineapple vs the fruit salad debate. The pineapple found had some rind of fresh pineapple (not the canned type) in her digestive tract - she ate cut fresh pineapple (is this confirmed in autopsy reports?). If the pineapple in the bowl was fresh and contains the rind (meaning it is not canned) then a conclusive DNA could be done to obtain hybridization characteristics (specific to farm/country of origin, etc.) as well as simply matching the DNA itself for the pineapple to tie it to an exact match.

As for the cherry bits and grape bits with grape skin. Those are the fibrous parts of those particular fruits. Perhaps they were lower down her intestine, perhaps even in the colon (which can be called the digestive tract too).

If grape skins and cherry bits (skin, fibrous matter) was found in the lower tract and fresh pineapple in the upper tract, then it would not be lying saying there were cherry bits, grape bits, skins, found with pineapple in her digestive tract.

But you can also say Spain and New York City are on the map too, if you know what I mean. Same planet, different histories.

Very well said.

 

[UKGuy]

In regard to the bolded above (which I did as reference), I had a question. Why do you term the ponytails as such?

Are there photos of her ponytails being asymetrical, as you have termed them?

There is this, which you note:

Autopsy Report, excerpt

The scalp is covered by long blonde hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and one in the lower back of the head secured by a blue elastic band.




The autopsy report, when I read it, indicates a typical double ponytail. One toward the top of the head to keep hair from face and eyes, and a second ponytail fashioned right below it in a lower position. This gives a "layered" effect to the hair. The higher ponytail drapes over with a shorter presentation of the hair (because it has a rubber band toward the top of the head). The lower pony tail (exactly below the higher ponytail) allows for that gathered hair to display longer in length. When the child stands, the ponytails complement each other and works best with longer hair.

They are not asymmetrical ponytails, as I read the autopsy report. They are two ponytails, one higher than the other, in line with each other at the midline of the head.

If there are photos contradicting this interpretation, I don't understand why the autopsy report clearly says one ponytail is higher and the other is lower.

HRP,
There are photos of JonBenet at the White's party but BPD have not released them. They could very well confirm what you are suggesting. Another poster has already made similar remarks, except they were dressed at bedtime?

The terminology is mine, and is confusing so feel free to ignore it completely.

.

 

[Ambitioned]

If the pineapple in the bowl was fresh and contains the rind (meaning it is not canned) then a conclusive DNA could be done to obtain hybridization characteristics (specific to farm/country of origin, etc.) as well as simply matching the DNA itself for the pineapple to tie it to an exact match.

Did they have that DNA technology back then?

 

[HRP]

HRP,
There are photos of JonBenet at the White's party but BPD have not released them. They could very well confirm what you are suggesting. Another poster has already made similar remarks, except they were dressed at bedtime?

The terminology is mine, and is confusing so feel free to ignore it completely.

.

I brought it up because I tried to ignore it after having trying to find out if, in fact, there was proof of asymmetrical ponytails arranged on JonBenet's head the night she was murdered (or fashioned after as some may infer)--and I could not find such fact.

So for clarity, I wanted to ask if there were photos (autopsy) as you describe (asymmetrical ponytails)--and there are none.

Asymmetrical means something when read, and it is confusing, to be honest, and I thought it was a fact and would have thought it a fact if I had not asked.

Thanks for your explanation.

 

[HRP]

Very well said.

Thank you.

Did they have that DNA technology back then?

Yes. And they have better technology and methods now, so it would be interesting to have it done. The sad thing is the pineapple from the digestive tract, if still preserved, may possibly be continually "digested" (unless they preserve it to keep it in the state of digestion at the time of removal somehow). DNA is quite easily destroyed by a human's digestive tract. Perhaps they can isolate cell structure of the pineapple. Since there are patented pineapples out there (yes, this is true), maybe the cell structure of some patents has a distinct shape which could be matched up if the DNA is destroyed. Cell membranes are not digested and are pretty tough and keep their shape.

I am not an expert, by the way, just wondering about the pineapple connections.

 

[Ambitioned]

Thank you.



Yes. And they have better technology and methods now, so it would be interesting to have it done. The sad thing is the pineapple from the digestive tract, if still preserved, may possibly be continually "digested" (unless they preserve it to keep it in the state of digestion at the time of removal somehow). DNA is quite easily destroyed by a human's digestive tract. Perhaps they can isolate cell structure of the pineapple. Since there are patented pineapples out there (yes, this is true), maybe the cell structure of some patents has a distinct shape which could be matched up if the DNA is destroyed. Cell membranes are not digested and are pretty tough and keep their shape.

I am not an expert, by the way, just wondering about the pineapple connections.

I think many people know pineapple is quick to digest. When I worked with a GI doctor, one of the few high fiber foods recommended was yep, pineapple (minus the rind and stem). I'm now wondering if they did that DNA testing of the pineapple. I also still wonder if the report is true about the cherries, etc. If true it may be possible she ate those at the party and then the pineapple at home.

Either way, thank you. It's a very interesting avenue to think about.

ETA: Thought you might like this if you haven't seen already. I know it's Topix (shudder) But, the thread is interesting.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TQ01C2AUAVTNAV02M

 

[aussiesheila2]

JonBenet wore one ponytail at the top of her head to the White's party. This was the same hairstyle (of which there are photos) at her family's Christmas party on the 23rd.

Her body, when it was found had a second ponytail tied lower down and underneath the original top of the head ponytail.

 

[otg]

I brought it up because I tried to ignore it after having trying to find out if, in fact, there was proof of asymmetrical ponytails arranged on JonBenet's head the night she was murdered (or fashioned after as some may infer)--and I could not find such fact.

So for clarity, I wanted to ask if there were photos (autopsy) as you describe (asymmetrical ponytails)--and there are none.

Asymmetrical means something when read, and it is confusing, to be honest, and I thought it was a fact and would have thought it a fact if I had not asked.

Thanks for your explanation.

I think it's the term "asymmetrical" that is confusing some posters (you're not the only one, HRP). Usually when it is said that someone has their hair in two ponytails, one would assume them to be on the left and right-hand side of the head (symmetrical). JonBenet's hair is described in the AR as follows:

The scalp is covered by long blonde hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and one in the lower back of the head secured by a blue elastic band.
​

The confusion over "asymmetrical" comes from the fact that the front of the head is not symmetrical with the back of the head in the first place, so any two ponytails tied in front and back would automatically be "asymmetrical." IOW, it adds nothing to the description to make it distinctive.

There are photos available which show exactly how the hair was at the time of autopsy -- but I won't post them here. They were leaked out within the past two years and have been posted previously. And I should tell you, seeing her face in death is disturbing and haunting. It's something that, as they say, cannot be "unseen" once you've seen it. If you feel up to it, they can be found by searching Google Images for the term "jonbenet autopsy photos."

 

[HRP]

I think many people know pineapple is quick to digest. When I worked with a GI doctor, one of the few high fiber foods recommended was yep, pineapple (minus the rind and stem). I'm now wondering if they did that DNA testing of the pineapple. I also still wonder if the report is true about the cherries, etc. If true it may be possible she ate those at the party and then the pineapple at home.

Either way, thank you. It's a very interesting avenue to think about.

ETA: Thought you might like this if you haven't seen already. I know it's Topix (shudder) But, the thread is interesting.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TQ01C2AUAVTNAV02M

Thank you, very interesting.

I think it's the term "asymmetrical" that is confusing some posters (you're not the only one, HRP). Usually when it is said that someone has their hair in two ponytails, one would assume them to be on the left and right-hand side of the head (symmetrical). JonBenet's hair is described in the AR as follows:

The scalp is covered by long blonde hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and one in the lower back of the head secured by a blue elastic band.
​

The confusion over "asymmetrical" comes from the fact that the front of the head is not symmetrical with the back of the head in the first place, so any two ponytails tied in front and back would automatically be "asymmetrical." IOW, it adds nothing to the description to make it distinctive.

There are photos available which show exactly how the hair was at the time of autopsy -- but I won't post them here. They were leaked out within the past two years and have been posted previously. And I should tell you, seeing her face in death is disturbing and haunting. It's something that, as they say, cannot be "unseen" once you've seen it. If you feel up to it, they can be found by searching Google Images for the term "jonbenet autopsy photos."

Maybe it's just from where I am located, geographically, but when the hair is divided by parting the head down the middle they (here) are called "pigtails". They are symmetrically fashioned (as best as can be done).

As for the head's symmetry, I have never heard of a head being thought asymmetrical via the way you describe. I've always heard/read that the head is divided in symmetry, naturally via right down the middle of the nose--left side, right side.

Thanks, though. I was not confused by symmetrical/asymmetrical, I thought a reader may find it confusing (as it was explained by prior poster) because the autopsy (as you and I previously had posted), indicates the double ponytail. One on top, one down below the first one.

AKA a double ponytail.

 

[UKGuy]

Thank you, very interesting.



Maybe it's just from where I am located, geographically, but when the hair is divided by parting the head down the middle they (here) are called "pigtails". They are symmetrically fashioned (as best as can be done).

As for the head's symmetry, I have never heard of a head being thought asymmetrical via the way you describe. I've always heard/read that the head is divided in symmetry, naturally via right down the middle of the nose--left side, right side.

Thanks, though. I was not confused by symmetrical/asymmetrical, I thought a reader may find it confusing (as it was explained by prior poster) because the autopsy (as you and I previously had posted), indicates the double ponytail. One on top, one down below the first one.

AKA a double ponytail.

HRP,
BBM: that was the distinction I was trying to highlight by terming your double ponytail as assymetric. The point being if one ponytail arived after she returned from the White's, then who added it, and alike the pineapple snack queries the Ramsey version of events.

 

[Ambitioned]

Thanks, though. I was not confused by symmetrical/asymmetrical, I thought a reader may find it confusing (as it was explained by prior poster) because the autopsy (as you and I previously had posted), indicates the double ponytail. One on top, one down below the first one.

AKA a double ponytail.

I grew up with the ponytails either being double ponytails or pigtails. So, the wording threw me off for a second but it makes sense now.

I still think the bottom one was added as part of staging to make it look like an intruder. It sure worked didn't it? IDIs say, "Look, the killer wanted her hair out of the way for the garrote."

 

[otg]

I'm not a hair stylist, but I think I know the difference between ponytails and pigtails. I'm just surprised, knowing Patsy's Francophilic tendencies, she didn't use chignons.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip* IDIs say, "Look, the killer wanted her hair out of the way for the garrote."

Why would an intruder care about getting her hair out of the way for the garrote?