Coco'sMommy
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I thought her urine was found elsewhere in the basement. Possibly in the craft room?
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Day 5 The John, Patsy and Burke's behavior/ The 12 days of JonBenet
- Thread starter Tricia
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I thought her urine was found elsewhere in the basement. Possibly in the craft room?
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Tortoise
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Next to the paint tote, I believe, just outside the wine cellar door.
Coco'sMommy
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kanzz
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But her paint tray wasn't in the craft room. It was just outside of the WR.
Look at the picture up against the wall beside the paint tote in the first picture. I think it is the same one as in the second picture at the arrow.
Attachments
a few connections have pulled together for me that i think fit no matter which RDI we work with.
go with me here.....
i havent seen a thread discuss the possibility of those weird "abrasions" being made by PR and JR.
we know the head trauma occurred sometime before the strangulation.
i have the feeling that both adults were aware and involved straight up after the head bash.
they decided immediately not to call 911.......first huge red flag for what happened and why.
anything of innocent nature, help would have been sort.period.
they were on their own from that decision forward.
i think they placed JBR on her bed and watched her like a hawk, desperately hoping she would come round.
this is when BR is sitting outside her room (buttcheek impressions)
after an hour or so they started getting desperate in what to do and used some sort of electrical device? appliance? to try and stun her awake.
maybe she started fitting maybe simply the lack of consciousness left them with no choice but a mercy killing.
we know what went on from there.
cant bring myself to commit to the beginning, theres just so many variants. but i really feel the "middle" part fits all RDI theories.
jmho
go with me here.....
i havent seen a thread discuss the possibility of those weird "abrasions" being made by PR and JR.
we know the head trauma occurred sometime before the strangulation.
i have the feeling that both adults were aware and involved straight up after the head bash.
they decided immediately not to call 911.......first huge red flag for what happened and why.
anything of innocent nature, help would have been sort.period.
they were on their own from that decision forward.
i think they placed JBR on her bed and watched her like a hawk, desperately hoping she would come round.
this is when BR is sitting outside her room (buttcheek impressions)
after an hour or so they started getting desperate in what to do and used some sort of electrical device? appliance? to try and stun her awake.
maybe she started fitting maybe simply the lack of consciousness left them with no choice but a mercy killing.
we know what went on from there.
cant bring myself to commit to the beginning, theres just so many variants. but i really feel the "middle" part fits all RDI theories.
jmho
Afterimage
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After thinking this over, I now wonder if the R's defense team silenced this neighbor somehow. Either by threatening her or paying her off. I think there really was a scream and that the neighbor really did hear it....but for some reason decided to retract her statement. (Something is strange there). Also, the Ramseys threw the Whites under the bus, which I also think was probably damage control by the R's lawyers.
I think the scream was PR when she was pulling on the noose. It was a horrifying event for her.
I think everyone in the family knew that this child was being sexually molested, they came upon her nearly dead, irreparably harmed, and made a decision to not call LE because of the stigma of incest and psychiatric disorder and knew she was not going to survive intact and 'she'd be better off dead" and so would they because they wouldn't have to tend to a child in a permanent vegetative state or have her as an inpatient, unable to defend herself from who knows what. Although it was 1:00am MT, it was still midnight PT and therefore the decision was made to make her a gift to Jesus on his birthday rather than wait until she died on her own. They had a lot of staging and prepping and practicing to do and had to be up early to jive with the vacation departure schedule they were supposed to be on.
Sometimes I think JR was in on the staging and sometimes I think he was very confused by the events he awakened to that morning. PR was in on it from the moment she learned of what BR had done. BR was most likely punished to his room.
I think PR laid on the bed, fully dressed and waited for JR to go into his bathroom, then she pulled the covers back and went into acting mode, making up her side as she rose.
Neither of them ran around the house screaming JBR's name, looking in closets, under beds, in cupboards or searching every possible hiding place. No one went to the garage. No one went outside. No one called neighbors. But, they were perfectly dressed and well-groomed when LE showed up 4 minutes after the 911 call.
Who gets up and does all that dressing and showering and make-up and such BEFORE making coffee? No one.
BALONEY!
I think everyone in the family knew that this child was being sexually molested, they came upon her nearly dead, irreparably harmed, and made a decision to not call LE because of the stigma of incest and psychiatric disorder and knew she was not going to survive intact and 'she'd be better off dead" and so would they because they wouldn't have to tend to a child in a permanent vegetative state or have her as an inpatient, unable to defend herself from who knows what. Although it was 1:00am MT, it was still midnight PT and therefore the decision was made to make her a gift to Jesus on his birthday rather than wait until she died on her own. They had a lot of staging and prepping and practicing to do and had to be up early to jive with the vacation departure schedule they were supposed to be on.
Sometimes I think JR was in on the staging and sometimes I think he was very confused by the events he awakened to that morning. PR was in on it from the moment she learned of what BR had done. BR was most likely punished to his room.
I think PR laid on the bed, fully dressed and waited for JR to go into his bathroom, then she pulled the covers back and went into acting mode, making up her side as she rose.
Neither of them ran around the house screaming JBR's name, looking in closets, under beds, in cupboards or searching every possible hiding place. No one went to the garage. No one went outside. No one called neighbors. But, they were perfectly dressed and well-groomed when LE showed up 4 minutes after the 911 call.
Who gets up and does all that dressing and showering and make-up and such BEFORE making coffee? No one.
BALONEY!
Heymom
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Just one tiny problem...No one knew about the head wound until the ME peeled back her scalp. They all thought she had died from the ligature strangulation.
Heymom
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No, the Ramseys were throwing their friends under the bus before lawyers got involved. Just inviting them all over to the house that morning puts them into an active crime scene and could have contaminated the body with the friends' DNA. They weren't thinking of anyone but themselves from the start. They used the Whites to get Burke out of police eyes and JR also drew FW into the scene by taking him along on the "search" for the body.
But the scream, yes, I believe it happened and I believe the Ramsey investigators went and visited the neighbor and made it clear that her testimony would bring a world of trouble down on her.
But her paint tray wasn't in the craft room. It was just outside of the WR.
Look at the picture up against the wall beside the paint tote in the first picture. I think it is the same one as in the second picture at the arrow.
So then, where was the urine stain? Was it in front of the wine cellar door? Or was it underneath the paint tote (i.e. someone tried to hide it with the paint tote)?
I was thinking something like this too -- that the stun gun was used to try to revive her, by the parents, but it didn't work. I also think that's where the bowl of pineapple fits in: they tried to feed her a snack right after it happened, hoping she'd "feel better." I know that may be far-fetched with the pineapple though because if the head wound came first, she most likely would have immediately lost consciousness and would have never regained it back, even for a moment (right?).
Yes,because how could a neighbor hear it and not them.
PR "why didn't I hear my baby?" She said this before she knew that the neighbor heard the scream. It was PR doing the screaming. But, she knew someone may have heard it so she was already on offense.
These people are sickening. Re-read ST's book and you will be furious with them, their family and friends. They ran, hid, ducked and thwarted LE at every turn. Why? Because they are guilty of covering up an horrific crime and one of them may be guilty of the fatal strangulation. Even JR's first family refused to cooperate with LE. They all deserve the stain their wear.
Yes, me too. I know some people think the scream is fake, but then, what about the metal-scraping sound that was also heard that night?
Another thing I was thinking about: perhaps I got this from the movie, but it made me think -- was JR lying about breaking the train-room window earlier? Did he actually break it that night? Just seems completely strange that you wouldn't get that window fixed, when you know your children go down there and I'm sure it made that room cold. Did maids or anyone ever confirm that the window was broken before Christmas? If memory serves, there was also a glass shard found on top of the suitcase. If that window was broken in the summer, where the heck did that glass shard come from?
kanzz
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The urine stain is said to be right outside the WR door, near the paint tote.
From acandyrose:
"Just outside the room, there were wooden shards near an artist's paint tray that also held part of a broken paintbrush; several paintings, one of which Patsy had done in Michigan, of flowers in a box on her porch; rope; string from a sled; and down the hall on a counter, a red pocket knife."
http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-evidence.htm
From the pbwiki page:
"There was a urine stain on the floor immediately outside that room, and a few feet away was the paint tote containing the remaining piece of the paintbrush used for a garrote; small bits of paintbrush handle also were found at the same location, suggesting this is where the garrotte was made."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682481/Interpreting the Evidence
^ Thanks, from photo 178 above, if everything pictured was where it lay when the attack occurred, the only logical place the attack could have occurred is right before the wine cellar door. I thought that maybe the tote was put over the spot where the attack/urination occurred.
I find it interesting that the attack took place here, and not the wine cellar, with the door closed. To me it goes against the IDI theory.
I find it interesting that the attack took place here, and not the wine cellar, with the door closed. To me it goes against the IDI theory.
kanzz
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Not necessarily, I was just brainstorming. Admittedly, I'm new to the case, so I'm at the point where I'm simply going through every possible scenario of what could have happened -- I guess it's just my way; I don't like to rule anything out and I want to explore all avenues, if only to reinforce my more solid convictions (such as, that this is a RDI case). I don't really have a definitive opinion as to whether or not a stun-gun was used, but if one was indeed used (which is a big "if"), then I believe that the family used it -- not an intruder. If I remember correctly, it's been reported that the R's didn't own a stun-gun and there was never one found at the house, which complicates this opinion of course.
Heymom
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You may as well include a cattle-prod as a possibility. The Ramseys didn't own a cattle-prod and one was never found at the house but what the heck, it MIGHT have been used to try and jolt JBR awake, right?
Following Lou Smit's rabbit trails will lead you further and further away from reality. There was no stun gun. That "theory" was made up to enhance the intruder's perverted profile, and it was fiction.