DC - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 4 federal counts in 2020 election interference, 1 Aug 2023, Trial 4 Mar 2024

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Arkay said:
@MyBelle:
Below is a link which fact-checks everything Trump said on his call to Raffensberger.

Virtually nothing Trump said was accurate, other than his name.

This was Mafia style intimidation. “I need you to find“ these votes was meant as menacing, both in tone and actual verbiage. Trump told Raffensberger that he, Raffensberger, was doing something illegal by not producing votes that Raffensberger knew were not there, having already looked for evidence and finding none. Trump “advised” him that both he and Raffensberger’s lawyer could go to jail because they couldn’t and wouldn’t produce fraudulent votes in Trump’s favor.

You’re right that Raffensberger is a Republican who had voted for Trump. IMO that clarifies it even more as a non-biased fact—Trump did not have enough votes in Georgia to win the state. Trump wanted him to just pretend, and in the link you will see that Trump was wrong about each reason he gave to overturn the legitimate votes of the population.

A “request” is “please pass me the sugar.” “I need you to” followed by threats is strong-arm bullying and bulldozing.

It WAS a perfect call, for a Mafia Don. Not “Don” Donald Trump, former president who lost a bid for re-election.

IMO but also FACTS.
,

www.brennancenter.org

Fact Check: Trump’s Georgia Call to Raffensperger

The former president made a slew of false claims in asking the Georgia secretary of state to overturn the 2020 election results.
www.brennancenter.org www.brennancenter.org
Click to expand...
BBM. Nowhere in your link does it state that Trump "advised" Raffensperger that both he and his lawyer could go to jail.

It was a phone call that went nowhere because Raffensperger--who is in charge of GA elections--told Trump his information was wrong. I have no idea how much Willis has spent on her nearly 3 yr. "investigation" but I'm betting GA taxpayers aren't happy.

Unlike New York DA Bragg-- who did not publicize his pending grand jury investigation of Trump--DA Willis has been publicizing her "investigation" and grand juries from the moment she took office. It smacks of political motive by an ambitious politician.

I fully support the indictments brought by the DOJ's Special Prosecutor, Smith.

JMO

From your link:
During the phone call, Raffensperger explained to Trump that this “data” was “wrong.” Georgia and other states use a wide range of procedures to make sure that requests for mail ballots come only from currently registered voters and take steps to reduce errors when sending mail ballots, including routine maintenance of voter rolls.
 
www.theguardian.com

Trump could face criminal solicitation charges in Georgia election inquiry

Exclusive: Fulton county DA has identified multiple state election crimes in the 2020 election investigation, sources say
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"Among the state election law charges that prosecutors were examining: criminal solicitation to commit election fraud and conspiracy to commit election fraud, as well as solicitation of a public or political officer to fail to perform their duties and solicitation to destroy, deface or remove ballots, the people said.

The district attorney is also seeking to charge at least some of the Trump operatives who were involved in accessing voting machines and copying sensitive election data in Coffee county, Georgia, in January 2021 with computer trespass crimes, the two people said."
 
MyBelle said:
Nowhere in your link does it state that Trump "advised" Raffensperger that both he and his lawyer could go to jail.
Click to expand...
Of course our opinions on Trump
may differ, but the facts show what was said.

The link I sent was strictly a fact-check on Trump’s claims.

This is the relevant excerpt, from a full transcript from CNN of the phone call between BF and Trump:

IMO even the fact that Raffensperger felt compelled to tape the call is due to him knowing that Trump was going to pressure him to do something illegal.

Trump doesn’t say “jail“ but says BF and his lawyer are committing criminal offenses, twice says BF is doing something illegal, says it’s a big risk to BF and his lawyer, and accuses BF of knowing about “criminal activities” and doing nothing about it.


Trump:
And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I’ve heard. And they are removing machinery and they’re moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you can’t let it happen and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

And flipping the state is a great testament to our country because, cause you know, this is — it’s a testament that they can admit to a mistake or whatever you want to call it. If it was a mistake, I don’t know. A lot of people think it wasn’t a mistake. It was much more criminal than that. But it’s a big problem in Georgia and it’s not a problem that’s going away. I mean, you know, it’s not a problem that’s going away.

Germany: Mr President, this is Ryan. We’re looking into every one of those things that you mentioned.

Trump: Good. But if you find it you’ve got to say it, Ryan.

Germany: … Let me tell you what we are seeing. What we’re seeing is not at all what you’re describing, these are investigators from our office, these are investigators from

GBI, and they’re looking and they’re good. And that’s not what they’re seeing. And we’ll keep looking, at all these things.


The full transcript, very lengthy:

 
Last edited:
I think it's important to remember this investigation is about more than just the recorded phone call. Trump was overseeing an entire conspiracy to take Georgia as a win - pressuring different officials - including asking Kemp to overrule Raffensperger (telling aides that Kemp owed him); pressuring election workers causing one to flee her home on advice from the FBI; forcing the resignation of the Atlanta US attorney after he'd stated there was no evidence of fraud; accessing election equipment; a fake elector scheme; false claims of election fraud AND the phone calls to SOS Raffensperger, Governor Kemp, House Speaker David Ralston, Attorney General Chris Carr and the top investigator in the SOS office. He misused the power of his office to bully, threaten and coerce elected officials and used proxies in furthering his abuse - including the media, his family, attorneys and other elected officials like Lindsey Graham. Here's just a bit:

Trump's daughter-in-law, Lara, who is married to Eric Trump, also put the pressure on Kemp Saturday in an appearance on Justice With Jeanine on Fox News.

'Governor Kemp owes his position to President Trump. It would be nice if he reciprocated,' she said. 'He owes it to all of us'.
Click to expand...

At the time, Trump told aides the governor owed him. He urged Kemp to use “emergency powers” to block the certification of the results and demanded that the governor call a special session to overturn the election results and name a slate of Republican electors to award him the state’s 16 electoral votes. Each time he was rebuffed, Trump leveled a new wave of vicious attacks at Kemp on Twitter and to aides, ultimately calling for the governor to resign. And each time Trump’s advisers cautioned him to tone it down, he kept going back to the November 2018 rally that he headlined for Kemp.

“They were there for me, not for him. They didn’t know who he was,” Trump later said in a radio interview. “And then when I ask him for help on a special session for election integrity, ‘Sir, I won’t be able to do that.’ I say, you’ve got to be kidding. One thing has nothing to do with the other. He’s a disaster.”
Click to expand...

Trump suggested Raffensperger could be subject to criminal liability for his role in the matter.

Schiff pointed to a tweet from pro-Trump attorney Lin Wood from a few weeks before the phone call, saying that Trump gave Raffensperger and Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp "every chance to get it right."

"They refused. They will soon be going to jail," Wood wrote. Trump retweeted that tweet.

On the phone with Raffensperger, Trump said that submitting shredded and unsigned ballots would be "more illegal for you than it is is for [the people doing so], because you know what they did and you're not reporting it."

He went on to call it a criminal offense and a big risk.

Later, after Raffensperger had denied the fraud allegations, Trump said he thought it was "dangerous for you to say that."
Click to expand...

JMO and IANAL but I think it's pretty damned likely he violated laws and I believe the grand jury will believe so too.


www.dailymail.co.uk

Trump CALLS Georgia Gov. Kemp to pressure him to overturn Biden's win

The president contacted the Republican governor Saturday morning asking that he call a special session of the state legislature to overturn votes in the state.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
www.politico.com

How Brian Kemp Resisted Trump’s Pressure to Overturn the Georgia Election Results

Other state Republicans were tempted to cave to Trump’s demands. The GOP governor held firm.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
Arkay said:
Of course our opinions on Trump
may differ, but the facts show what was said.

The link I sent was strictly a fact-check on Trump’s claims.
Click to expand...
This right here. It doesn't matter what you feel about him as a person or how he was as a president-good or bad. NO ONE should be above the law, even if it's someone you technically would support politically.
 
MyBelle said:
I have no idea how much Willis has spent on her nearly 3 yr. "investigation" but I'm betting GA taxpayers aren't happy.
Click to expand...

I disagree. (I am a GA taxpayer.)

Otoh, I am pretty upset that a previous President of the USA and his co-conspirators worked to undermine and invalidate legitimate elections in my state. I am looking forward to them being held accountable for their crimes.

MOO.
 
Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is expected to spend two days presenting her case before a grand jury next week.

Willis could seek several indictments as she eyes a sweeping racketeering case that could cast Trump and several of his associates as operating as a criminal enterprise in their endeavors to upend Georgia’s election results.

A sweeping RICO case​

Willis launched her investigation into Trump in early 2021, soon after he called Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and pressured the Republican to “find” the votes necessary for Trump to win the state of Georgia. At a campaign event Tuesday, Trump continued to insist it was a “perfect phone call.”

Her investigation has steadily expanded, and Willis has been weighing racketeering charges in the Trump case. RICO – the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act – is a statute the district attorney has spoken fondly of and used in unorthodox ways to bring charges against teachers as well as musicians in the Atlanta area.
The former president’s legal team believes he is likely to face his fourth indictment in the coming days, people familiar with the matter told CNN.

 
Inthedetails said:
Bringing it back to J6, he's been quiet online about it so seems to be complying with judge's orders.
Click to expand...

I think that he will be subdued and quiet until he is not. Past experience with him and his quietude is that he usually can keep it together for x period of time but when the dam breaks he goes whole hog.

I have been thinking a lot about his words about being targeted and being the voice/face of the Americans who are being marginalized. Then I look at the behaviors of so many of my fellow Americans (on planes, buses, cars, homes, etc) and I recognize that there are any number of people who like the law when it is applied to those who are ideologically different then themselves but are above the law when the law is applied to them. All of this reminds me of the loss of civility, civics and personal responsibility.

All who break the law should be held to account regardless of the ideology.
 
kaen said:
I think that he will be subdued and quiet until he is not. Past experience with him and his quietude is that he usually can keep it together for x period of time but when the dam breaks he goes whole hog.

I have been thinking a lot about his words about being targeted and being the voice/face of the Americans who are being marginalized. Then I look at the behaviors of so many of my fellow Americans (on planes, buses, cars, homes, etc) and I recognize that there are any number of people who like the law when it is applied to those who are ideologically different then themselves but are above the law when the law is applied to them. All of this reminds me of the loss of civility, civics and personal responsibility.

All who break the law should be held to account regardless of the ideology.
Click to expand...
Your post is certainly timely. He's indirectly attacking the judge over on Truth Social. He re-truthed a post that calls Judge Chutkan a leftwing activist Obama appointment who has admitted openly she is running election interference against Trump. With her photograph.

And while I agree with you on the law - I personally believe Trump is so personality disordered that he cannot, will not, ever be constrained by it. He's the epitome of a malignant narcissist. Civility and personal responsibility are for 'lesser' folks.

JMO
 
BritsKate said:
Your post is certainly timely. He's indirectly attacking the judge over on Truth Social. He re-truthed a post that calls Judge Chutkan a leftwing activist Obama appointment who has admitted openly she is running election interference against Trump. With her photograph.

And while I agree with you on the law - I personally believe Trump is so personality disordered that he cannot, will not, ever be constrained by it. He's the epitome of a malignant narcissist. Civility and personal responsibility are for 'lesser' folks.

JMO
Click to expand...
And that’s his good qualities! IMO
 
Lilibet said:
I’m not sure if you mean the Georgia case should be discussed elsewhere. But won’thave a thread for the Georgia case until there are indictments, so this is the only place it can be discussed for now. :)
Click to expand...
I know! It's frustrating, but probably only to me and my obsession about keeping things in their place. I'll make it through....just a few more days and a thread will be opened. ;)

Just don't put the forks where the spoons go. Please!

jmo
 
kaen said:
I think that he will be subdued and quiet until he is not. Past experience with him and his quietude is that he usually can keep it together for x period of time but when the dam breaks he goes whole hog.

I have been thinking a lot about his words about being targeted and being the voice/face of the Americans who are being marginalized. Then I look at the behaviors of so many of my fellow Americans (on planes, buses, cars, homes, etc) and I recognize that there are any number of people who like the law when it is applied to those who are ideologically different then themselves but are above the law when the law is applied to them. All of this reminds me of the loss of civility, civics and personal responsibility.

All who break the law should be held to account regardless of the ideology.
Click to expand...
I think his focus now is on Georgia. He's made it pretty clear he wants to be indicted.

JMO
 
Inthedetails said:
I know! It's frustrating, but probably only to me and my obsession about keeping things in their place. I'll make it through....just a few more days and a thread will be opened. ;)

Just don't put the forks where the spoons go. Please!

jmo
Click to expand...

Lol. Instead of envisioning a utensil drawer, maybe envision a Venn diagram. There is overlap....
 
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