DC - Justina gets standing ovation from Congress

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As always, Annahanna provides us with some good and useful information. And yes, there have been horse therapy organizations in the West Hartford area for some time. I hope they are helping Justina in some way, but IMO, her problem is one of refusal to walk rather than a physical inability to do so.

I still think that video the family shot and posted of her in the swimming pool, where you can see her shift her feet to get a better stance for tossing the ball to the dog tells us she can move her legs if she wants to.
 
Sweetmom, I agree with you. There is nothing that I have seen that tells me that Justina is actually paralyzed as her family has said. There are several things, including the pool video, that indicate to me that what she has is a refusal to walk - of perhaps a belief that she can't walk that is not supported by medical testing. We have seen her shift her legs and feet in the wheelchair on her own. Looking closer at the pictures of Justina on horseback, she does not appear to be in a specialty saddle. She is holding on to the hand of the older woman next to the horse (and not apparently to the horse itself or anything on the horse) and she does appear to be almost exaggeratedly straight backed in the saddle. She MAY be wearing some sort of brace or corset under her clothes?

I believe that she walks or moves around on her own a lot more then the family indicates. I have known enough hyper-vigilant parents of legitimately ill children to know that it is not terribly uncommon for well meaning family to put a kid in a wheelchair because it is "too difficult" for the kid to try to walk. The cruel irony is that the old adage "use it or lose it" takes over and the kid ends up legitimately unable to walk and care for themselves due to muscle atrophy. There is an amazing program at Boston's Childrens that has had a lot of success treating those types of kids. I still believe that The "Justina situation" occurred in part because this program was recommended for her and her mother flipped out because is is partially under the department of psychiatry/psychology. The over the top response - along with Justina's refusal to co-operate (which I observed while my kid was hospitalized at the same time) may be what prompted the stint in Bader 5.

I hope that his holiday season brings some measure of healing to the Pelletier family, and real diagnosis and treatment to Justina.
 
"I hope that his holiday season brings some measure of healing to the Pelletier family, and real diagnosis and treatment to Justina" -- Annahanna

I hope so too, and I am sure all the Websleuthers, even those who are angriest at the family, wish nothing but better health for Justina and maybe --just maybe -- some self-awareness for the rest of the family. (Boy, am I an optimist or what???)

From what we know from published interviews with Lou and Linda, Justina has had problems walking from far earlier in her life (way before hospitalization at BCH) as well as severe learning disabilities (unable to attend a regular school) possibly stemming from a stroke early in her childhood. From this outsider's perspective, she is a psychologically impaired child who clings, understandably, to her family and does whatever they tell (or indicate) her to do. And that includes being "unable" to walk. And, for that matter, unable to move her bowels, which has led to a cascade of surgeries. She evidently had years of hearing, "Poor Justina, she cannot move her bowels" and lo and behold, she believed them and it got to the point where she really could not. How ironic; how truly awful.
It is so sad to say, but IMO, the family has built its entire existence on her "sickness" and wouldn't know what to do with itself if she suddenly became healthy. How horrible to think that they NEED her to be sick, but IMO, that seems to be true.
 
annahanna said:
Sweetmom, I agree with you. There is nothing that I have seen that tells me that Justina is actually paralyzed as her family has said. There are several things, including the pool video, that indicate to me that what she has is a refusal to walk - of perhaps a belief that she can't walk that is not supported by medical testing. We have seen her shift her legs and feet in the wheelchair on her own. Looking closer at the pictures of Justina on horseback, she does not appear to be in a specialty saddle. She is holding on to the hand of the older woman next to the horse (and not apparently to the horse itself or anything on the horse) and she does appear to be almost exaggeratedly straight backed in the saddle. She MAY be wearing some sort of brace or corset under her clothes?

I believe that she walks or moves around on her own a lot more then the family indicates. I have known enough hyper-vigilant parents of legitimately ill children to know that it is not terribly uncommon for well meaning family to put a kid in a wheelchair because it is "too difficult" for the kid to try to walk. The cruel irony is that the old adage "use it or lose it" takes over and the kid ends up legitimately unable to walk and care for themselves due to muscle atrophy. There is an amazing program at Boston's Childrens that has had a lot of success treating those types of kids. I still believe that The "Justina situation" occurred in part because this program was recommended for her and her mother flipped out because is is partially under the department of psychiatry/psychology. The over the top response - along with Justina's refusal to co-operate (which I observed while my kid was hospitalized at the same time) may be what prompted the stint in Bader 5.

I hope that his holiday season brings some measure of healing to the Pelletier family, and real diagnosis and treatment to Justina.
Click to expand...

It's not an either-or though. Plenty of people with credible and verified medical diagnoses are able to shift their legs independently but use a wheelchair sometimes, or most of the time, because they are unable to walk long distances or their ability to walk varies depending on how tired they are, if they're feeling dizzy etc. You might be able to shift your legs but yet not be able to walk if you have deficits in the muscle strength or the control of your posture or the balance or the motor coordination or some such thing. Not saying that Justina doesn't have psychological factors contributing to her disability but just seeing a person in a wheelchair shift their legs or walk a couple of meters is not proof that it's all imaginary.
 
Donjeta said:
It's not an either-or though. Plenty of people with credible and verified medical diagnoses are able to shift their legs independently but use a wheelchair sometimes, or most of the time, because they are unable to walk long distances or their ability to walk varies depending on how tired they are, if they're feeling dizzy etc. You might be able to shift your legs but yet not be able to walk if you have deficits in the muscle strength or the control of your posture or the balance or the motor coordination or some such thing. Not saying that Justina doesn't have psychological factors contributing to her disability but just seeing a person in a wheelchair shift their legs or walk a couple of meters is not proof that it's all imaginary.
Click to expand...

Agree. Certain spasms can happen as well that could make things look like shifting of legs.

But since I never followed this case; I truly don't know the situation.
 
DexterMorgan said:
Agree. Certain spasms can happen as well that could make things look like shifting of legs.

But since I never followed this case; I truly don't know the situation.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. There could be minimal motion or spasms.
But I am recalling a number of hysterical/theatrical claims by the family that Justina is totally paralyzed below the waist, due entirely to the evil machinations of BCH. IMO, the pool video contradicts those claims.
 
There is a new posting on the Miracle site, taken from a conservative website called Bostonbroadside. It is a message from the Mass. House member who filed the Justina bill last summer, lamenting that nothing has been done to advance it. He lists the phone numbers of all the relevant committee members in hopes that Pelletier supporters will call them. It would be interesting to see what would happen if those who do not support the family's actions gave those folks a call.

Also interesting that among the comments are several from a woman who seems angry at the family and the Rev. Mahoney, who, by the way, is a Presbyterian, not a Catholic priest. Very surprising that the family has not blocked those comments as they usually do when the poster has not drunk the Kool-Aid.

And if previous postings on this site are correct, the family has less than a month to file any sort of suit vs. Boston Children's Hospital and/or Mass DCF. Tick-tock....
 
They are asking for money again on the Miracle site. This time, via a supporter who, as usual, tells the story replete with disputed info presented as facts and supporting the family's fairy tales. She says they need the money for the horse-riding therapy, which is evidently not covered by their insurance. (I am surprised they have health insurance, since as far as we know, as neither Pelletier parent works. Could this ultra-conservative family be on Obamacare? Delicious.)

And another poster, in the visitor rail down the left side of the site, is frothing over something she calls the Office of Population Affairs (I don't have the time or stomach for researching that one right now, or how it would apply to Justina, but IMO it will turn out to be not at all what this woman says it is, if it actually exists.)

The miracle site attracts loonies like honey attracts flies.
 
Thanks, I.B.
This poster is quite fired up on the issue of eugenics and sees sterilization (which would include such personal choices as tubal ligation) as part of some nefarious plot to elininate the disabled. She is certainly entitled to her opinion, but I am still not getting how she relates her beliefs to Justina. She seems to equate the choice to use contraception with forced sterilization with evil eugenics, which IMO is an awfully big stretch. But she has obviously made this her cause.
 
Donjeta said:
It's not an either-or though. Plenty of people with credible and verified medical diagnoses are able to shift their legs independently but use a wheelchair sometimes, or most of the time, because they are unable to walk long distances or their ability to walk varies depending on how tired they are, if they're feeling dizzy etc. You might be able to shift your legs but yet not be able to walk if you have deficits in the muscle strength or the control of your posture or the balance or the motor coordination or some such thing. Not saying that Justina doesn't have psychological factors contributing to her disability but just seeing a person in a wheelchair shift their legs or walk a couple of meters is not proof that it's all imaginary.
Click to expand...
I agree. The fact that Justina can shift her legs does not mean that she can walk competently for long - or even short - distances. I listed several reasons why I believe that Justina is NOT "completely paralyzed below the waist" as her family has repeatedly claimed. I mentioned that I had observed Justina while she was hospitalized at the same time as my child. Although I did not go into detail about what I personally saw, I had the unfortunate opportunity to see the Pelletier show up close at Boston's Children's. From what I have seen, I believe that she was medically and physically able to walk while she was inpatient at BCH. (Even though she refused to do so.) It is possible that she has MORE difficulty walking today then she did while inpatient and at discharge because she simply does not walk much (muscle atrophy, etc). The old medical adage "use it or lose it" COULD well be applicable to Justna's situation.
 
annahanna said:
I agree. The fact that Justina can shift her legs does not mean that she can walk competently for long - or even short - distances. I listed several reasons why I believe that Justina is NOT "completely paralyzed below the waist" as her family has repeatedly claimed. I mentioned that I had observed Justina while she was hospitalized at the same time as my child. Although I did not go into detail about what I personally saw, I had the unfortunate opportunity to see the Pelletier show up close at Boston's Children's. From what I have seen, I believe that she was medically and physically able to walk while she was inpatient at BCH. (Even though she refused to do so.) It is possible that she has MORE difficulty walking today then she did while inpatient and at discharge because she simply does not walk much (muscle atrophy, etc). The old medical adage "use it or lose it" COULD well be applicable to Justna's situation.
Click to expand...

I agree. The longer she fails to walk, or even try, the worse the weakness will become. But she probably never was "completely paralyzed below the waist," as the family maintained. They made so many over the top accusations that were never corroborated, and IMO, this was one of them.
On a related topic, if Feb. 14 (the 2-year anniversary of Justina's admission to BCH) comes and goes without the launching of the much-ballyhooed lawsuit v. BCH, can we be assured there can never legally be one?
 
One more thing: The newest photo posted on the Miracle page of a young girl on a horse (riding therapy) does not look at all like Justina and the people with her do not look like the family members. Which makes me wonder why that photo appears with a posting about how great the therapy is for Justina and a request for money to help pay for it.
 
There are other pictures and it definitely looks like her. No idea why none of the people in the pictures are family members, though.
 
stormshine said:
There are other pictures and it definitely looks like her. No idea why none of the people in the pictures are family members, though.
Click to expand...

Right. I have seen those other shots, and they are of Justina. But this one looks so different that it caught my eye. Maybe those unfamiliar folks are riding therapy staff.
 
drjones said:
http://www.wcvb.com/news/man-rescue...n-childrens-hospital-computer-attack/38044412

BOSTON —A Massachusetts man rescued off the coast of Cuba by a Disney cruise ship has been arrested in connection with a computer attack on a Boston hospital.
Authorities say the attack was in protest of the hospital's treatment of a Connecticut teenager at the center of a custody dispute.
Click to expand...

wow. could this whole saga get any more bizarre? For those of you not checking the Miracle website, there is no mention of this story...yet. Just new photos of the Pelletier daughters and lots of postings on the anniversary of Justina's admittance to BCH, or as they call it, her "kidnapping." Another post asks if they can sue BCH and the state. It's my understanding that the time for that has run out, but I don't know for sure.
Does anyone have that information?
 
This is a good version of the hacker story with a copy of the complaint:

http://www.masslive.com/news/index....acking_suspect.html#incart_river_index_topics

I remember when it happened and I am sure there were posts here at WS about it. The complaint talks about posts to pastebin, which also sounds familiar.
Although it doesn't specifically say it, the FBI must have been getting ready to arrest him causing he and his wife to flee the country.

I really hope they nail this guy to the max.
 
The "free Justina" page just announced that on the 25th they're going to announce the BIG lawsuit against everyone.
 
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