DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #1

[*LD*]

I can't get past how not stressed SS sounded on the phone or how he could be in such good spirits with his sister.

Ths sister call seems odd but we only have his sister's word that he sounded in good spirits. No recording of their call.

 

[*LD*]

Good point. That is one way they may have known.

I can't get past how not stressed SS sounded on the phone or how he could be in such good spirits with his sister.

I believe the husband that came over was the husband to the maid that was killed in the house. Not NG husband. NG is the one who worked 20 years for SS.

Thats my understanding anyway.

Ah!! Correct. Sorry. Hadn't had my second cup of coffee.

 

[Angelo]

What I heard was Vera's husband knocked on the front door and got a sense that someone was standing on the inside of the door but not answering. So he went around to the side or kitchen door where he encountered SS. SS said I'm sorry I forgot to call you last night but Vera is fine.

He went to the kitchen door at the house and then his phone rang. It was Mr. Savopoulous telling him that he forgot to tell him that Vera was spending the night and she was ok. The husband did not see Mr. Savopoulous.

 

[Hatfield]

Apology unnecessary, wasn't directed toward anyone, A.; and if it were it would be first self-directed, as I'm guilty of that tendency too.

Every opinion certainly doesn't require an antecedent link. But they do help as providing stepping stones across what can constitute, at times, a torrent of ideas and opinions.

Thanks for the reminder to include links when its appropriate and especially if we are referencing something specific that we know was reported upon.

IMO, I tend to like our general discussions as well because I think it opens up dialog so I think it is ok to discuss generally about things. I suppose where we have to be careful is when we try to talk about something specific where we saw it reported somewhere.

The hard part too is some of the video interviews or seeing something on the news. If there is no transcript word for word, that makes it more difficult to remember where we heard about something about this case.

 

[ricquelle]

So far we've been told more than once that 3 of them had sharp and blunt trauma, possibly because there was blood visible from knife/sword wounds that made it obvious.

We know that the medics were doing CPR on someone, so maybe that person had just got a bash on the head to make it look convincing or when they were safely tied up bashed and thought they'd been left for dead.

Were the go-kart injuries to Philip ever established? I think early on they were saying that Philip was home with injuries from a go-kart accident. Maybe the three adults had the trauma. Due to Philip's go-kart injuries, he may have been unable to get out of the fire... or maybe some of his go-kart injuries could have been mistaken as happening at the time of the crime. May also be why 3 people were found in 1 room and the fourth in another ( I think I read that...)

 

[Aloysius]

Someone brought up yesterday about the fancy car being one of the keys to helping solve this case and I agree it will help LE.

There is something really strange about why burn the car and why leave car with bucket.

I can only think of 2 reasons why the car was taken and burned.

1-The perp(s) had been in that car on Wed at some point and wanted to burn the car to help destroy evidence.

2-The perp(s) wanted the car really bad and then decided as they were driving it home that it was way too risky to have the victim's car in their possession.

#2 seems unlikely because they surely would have thought of that before taking it one would think. So going with #1. And hoping that burning it did not destroy some place where prints or DNA can capture the perp's ID.

I was watching another case on one of those crime shows where they got 2 partial prints from 2 different areas of the steering wheel and pieced together a whole fingerprint that way to ID the guy. Even with the fire, I think LE may be able to gain good evidence from that car.

For that matter they may be able to get good evidence in the house too as far as fingerprints or DNA from the perp.

Theory

#3 To further compound the idea that it was home invasion by unknowns that
thought it was a good idea originally but changed their minds?

 

[fred&edna]

Were the go-kart injuries to Philip ever established? I think early on they were saying that Philip was home with injuries from a go-kart accident. Maybe the three adults had the trauma. Due to Philip's go-kart injuries, he may have been unable to get out of the fire... or maybe some of his go-kart injuries could have been mistaken as happening at the time of the crime. May also be why 3 people were found in 1 room and the fourth in another ( I think I read that...)

Yesterday, I posted the message below. HOWEVER, after listening to the voice mail message left by SS there was NO mention of go-kart injuries.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-4-mysterious-deaths&p=11779640#post11779640

 

[Hatfield]

Yesterday, I posted the message below. HOWEVER, after listening to the voice mail message left by SS there was NO mention of go-kart injuries.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-4-mysterious-deaths&p=11779640#post11779640

This article talks about the go-kart injury to the boy.

"His wife was ill, and their 10-year-old son was recovering from injuries suffered in a go-kart crash."
"On Wednesday night, Gutierrez told police, she got the voice mail from Savvas Savopoulos saying that his wife was sick and Philip was home from school with an injury."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html

 

[stmarysmead]

@BruceLeshan: NEW: Law enforcement source tells me fire started in kid's room. Money missing from house. #savopoulos @wusa9

I wonder if it was the child that died from smoke inhalation...as opposed to the wounds suffered by the three others.

 

[savoiadilucania]

The car is a really interesting piece to this puzzle. Just a few random observations.

1/The Porsche makes for a poor getaway vehicle in that it's unique and flashy
2/Why take the Porsche instead of another vehicle the family had?
3/Did the suspect like the idea of stealing a really flashy luxury car?
4/If it was a getaway vehicle, how did the suspect get to the location of the crime?
5/The suspect would presumably need to know how to drive manual transmission

 

[Hatfield]

More speculation.

What really bothers me is SS "stories" on the phone messages. He may have been forced to say these things of course but what is bothersome is the stories kept changing.

"Nelitza Gutierrez, the housekeeper who received the messages and has worked for the family for 20 years, said in an interview Saturday that the series of messages left her with the impression that something was amiss with her employers. She said Savvas Savopoulos told her in person Wednesday that his wife had plans to go out, but said in the voice mail left that night that Amy Savopoulos had been sick in bed all day."

So in just that 1 example he first tells the maid the wife is going to be out Wed night. Then it changes to sick.
And then it even changes again when he tells the other maids husband that Amy went to the hospital with his wife to cover why the maid cant talk to him.

It really seems like he was making stuff up as we went along. I suppose if a perp was forcing him to say all these things then it could make sense. Its all so bizarre.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html

 

[Garden Variety]

What are the working theories about the role of the package delivery from SS's assistant on Thursday? Money to pay the intruders-turned-murderers? Something else?

 

[Elley Mae]

More speculation.

What really bothers me is SS "stories" on the phone messages. He may have been forced to say these things of course but what is bothersome is the stories kept changing.

"Nelitza Gutierrez, the housekeeper who received the messages and has worked for the family for 20 years, said in an interview Saturday that the series of messages left her with the impression that something was amiss with her employers. She said Savvas Savopoulos told her in person Wednesday that his wife had plans to go out, but said in the voice mail left that night that Amy Savopoulos had been sick in bed all day."

So in just that 1 example he first tells the maid the wife is going to be out Wed night. Then it changes to sick.
And then it even changes again when he tells the other maids husband that Amy went to the hospital with his wife to cover why the maid cant talk to him.

It really seems like he was making stuff up as we went along. I suppose if a perp was forcing him to say all these things then it could make sense. Its all so bizarre.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html

It's my opinion that SS was trying to convey that something was amiss, like hey we need help. He couldn't text that he needed help, but he could text something that made them go, Hmmm something is wrong here. They are saying now that what they saw then was troublesome/ amiss yet what he was able to say in voice mail/text feel on death ears, (so to speak). jmo idk

 

[savoiadilucania]

What are the working theories about the role of the package delivery from SS's assistant on Thursday? Money to pay the intruders-turned-murderers? Something else?

I am of the opinion this delivery was nothing but business as usual, nothing suspicious.

 

[Tillicum]

More speculation.

What really bothers me is SS "stories" on the phone messages. He may have been forced to say these things of course but what is bothersome is the stories kept changing.

"Nelitza Gutierrez, the housekeeper who received the messages and has worked for the family for 20 years, said in an interview Saturday that the series of messages left her with the impression that something was amiss with her employers. She said Savvas Savopoulos told her in person Wednesday that his wife had plans to go out, but said in the voice mail left that night that Amy Savopoulos had been sick in bed all day."

So in just that 1 example he first tells the maid the wife is going to be out Wed night. Then it changes to sick.
And then it even changes again when he tells the other maids husband that Amy went to the hospital with his wife to cover why the maid cant talk to him.

It really seems like he was making stuff up as we went along. I suppose if a perp was forcing him to say all these things then it could make sense. Its all so bizarre.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html

From your link, "Gutierrez said in the interview that Savvas Savopoulos had asked her to help at the studio on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, instead of at the couple’s home on Thursday."

This has been nagging at me. Why couldn't she work in their home on Thursday if she wasn't working at the studio that day? It sounds like she originally was supposed to be there on Thursday so why did SS ask her not to? So instead of working there on Thursday, she cleaned at another home and Vera asked to clean at SS's?

 

[Indy Anna]

@BruceLeshan: NEW: Law enforcement source tells me fire started in kid's room. Money missing from house. #savopoulos @wusa9

I wonder if it was the child that died from smoke inhalation...as opposed to the wounds suffered by the three others.

I remembered, too, reading that the fire started in kid's room. If it was indeed Philip's room and he was still in there, I do hope he succumbed first to smoke inhalation. Since all were found with traumatic injuries, I assume Philip's body was badly burned.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...e-murder-washington-savopoulos-fire/27561835/

<<snipped>>

Three of the four victims had injuries caused by sharp force or blunt objects, according to investigators. The police incident report found all four had "various traumatic injuries."

 

[Hatfield]

This case has got to be one of the most bizarre cases I have ever heard about.

I cannot believe the ruthlessness of it with killing everyone.

The possibilities of who had the brainstorm of this crime is incredible right now.
So far, the possibilities include these below. Any others?

1-Random Perp(s)

2-Perp(s) that knew someone related in some way to that house and they were in on the planning

3-Same as #2 but the perp(s) came up with plan without their knowledge

4-SS himself but only planned for a fake robbery and perp(s) killed him too once perp(s) got money. Could be plausible because the Porsche thing almost seems like a plant to convince a robbery.

5-SS planned for a fake robbery with wife being killed for insurance money. This one could be plausible because he had so many things going on at the time with the new opening of a new business so maybe stress got to him and he wanted out. The perp(s) could have had resentment and decided to kill him too or he accidentally died in fire after trying to fake looking like he was a tied up/beat up victim.

6-Same as #4 or #5 but wife's planning instead of SS.

 

[savoiadilucania]

This case has got to be one of the most bizarre cases I have ever heard about.

I cannot believe the ruthlessness of it with killing everyone.

The possibilities of who had the brainstorm of this crime is incredible right now.
So far, the possibilities include these below. Any others?

1-Random Perp(s)
2-Perp(s) that knew someone related in some way to that house and they were in on the planning
3-Same as #2 but the perp(s) came up with plan without their knowledge
4-SS himself but only planned for a fake robbery and perp(s) killed him too once perp(s) got money. Could be plausible because the Porsche thing almost seems like a plant to convince a robbery.
5-SS planned for a fake robbery with wife being killed for insurance money. This one could be plausible because he had so many things going on at the time with the new opening of a new business so maybe stress got to him.
6-Same as #5 or #6 but wife's planning instead of SS.

The end result (everyone dies) seems to negate any family conspiracy angles. The intimacy, logistics, and timing of the crime seems to negate any possibility it was "random" suspects. I think what the LEOs have stated is logical -- someone who knew the family's schedule, who was able to get close to the family without suspicion.

 

[Canaille]

I'm having difficulty processing my thoughts.

Why did SS inform NG that Amy was going out?

Purely speculative on my part, but could NG and SS have been involved with each other?

How much preparation has to go into a martial arts facility? All one needs is a building and not much more.

As for the Porsche, was it left near the church that they belonged to? If so, the perp may have taken it so someone might think it was Amy in the vehicle.

What a sad and perplexing case.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

This case has got to be one of the most bizarre cases I have ever heard about.

I cannot believe the ruthlessness of it with killing everyone.

The possibilities of who had the brainstorm of this crime is incredible right now.
So far, the possibilities include these below. Any others?

1-Random Perp(s)

2-Perp(s) that knew someone related in some way to that house and they were in on the planning

3-Same as #2 but the perp(s) came up with plan without their knowledge

4-SS himself but only planned for a fake robbery and perp(s) killed him too once perp(s) got money. Could be plausible because the Porsche thing almost seems like a plant to convince a robbery.

5-SS planned for a fake robbery with wife being killed for insurance money. This one could be plausible because he had so many things going on at the time with the new opening of a new business so maybe stress got to him and he wanted out. The perp(s) could have had resentment and decided to kill him too or he accidentally died in fire after trying to fake looking like he was a tied up victim.

6-Same as #5 or #6 but wife's planning instead of SS.

I am going with #2 or 3. My problem with 4-6 is that I could not imagine a parent doing this in front of a child. School is almost out and I'm guessing summer camps and overnights are the norm for the children in this family.

ETA: meaning there would be time when the children were out of the house rather than when they were home