DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #10

[popsicle]

Charging Docs are not the holy bible of the case or evidence. It contains the bare minimum for probable cause for arrest and a SW. It does not contain all the info or evidence a Detective knows, is aware of or has been told. jmo

 

[tambo]

But I am also free to discuss it without it being called my assumption. Isn't that what the rules of the site say?

isn't it funny how people pick and choose what things in msm articles are facts and which are just assumptions. I went through the same thing you are going through yesterday, just a different topic. hang in there.

 

[catdoggy21]

It's published in msm. Therefore, no longer should be considered an assumption. Now, msm has had published things that are wrong. But that is neither here nor there.

IMO We have official CD's that have been released with the actual statements from JW. Those documents do not state what that article states and that is a fact. IMO it is poor reporting especially since they have access to the charging documents too. JMO

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

And lots of people (me) are inclined to want to help and we answer questions without thinking we're under suspicion. It may not be wise, but it's not stupid. It's human nature to want to help with any information.

If you're innocent, why would clamming up and calling for lawyer be the first thing you should do? This is not a rhetorical question. Will a lawyer tell us? Would a lawyer ever tell someone who's innocent to cooperate with police and tell them everything they know without a lawyer being present?

I will never, ever understand innocent people doing that. Lying to police is never smart as he knows now, but not talking and asking for a lawyer indicates guilt more than lying, in my opinion. Who knows, maybe he slipped a bill out of the stack and was trying to hide that by lying?

I'm pretty sure police are used to people lying to them. It's not unusual, and it's a huge waste of time and resources, but it's not always indicative of guilt related to the crime for which their being interviewed.

If they weren't suspecting me at the time, I'd be terrified of now causing them to look at me cockeyed after invoking lawyer. I also dread making anybody mad at me, certainly not anybody in law enforcement - I want those guys on my side!

I practiced corporate law for years. Wouldn't know what to do in a courtroom or a police station, truth be told. But I would never, ever, EVER under any circumstances allow myself to be questioned by police without a lawyer present (one who knew what they were doing, like a criminal or trial lawyer). It is too easy for the police to misinterpret what you say, put words in your mouth, etc. especially if you are under any sort of stress. I would rather have someone who knew what they were doing represent my interests no matter how innocent I was to prevent mistakes or misunderstandings.

I homeschool one of my kids. If the police came knocking on the door because a neighbor called because they saw a kid outside instead of at school I would never, ever let the police in my home without a warrant. Same reason. Even though my home is neat (most days...), safe, and it is abundantly clear that schooling is being done in my home, I would never allow the police to come in my house. I would be polite to them on the front porch and explain that I follow all the applicable laws of my jurisdiction, but I would not let them inside. It is my right, and I do not care if they do not like it.

JMO of course. I do understand what you are saying, and I know my husband feels exactly the same way you do (if I have nothing to hide why wouldn't I be as helpful as possible). Just as a lawyer, I feel like I was trained to do differently. [Insert lawyer joke here]

 

[Dushi]

That is a link to abc news and their story. It is not the official cd that states otherwise..IMO

The official CD doesn't state otherwise. It doesn't include the red bag but it doesn't state that JW took the money out of the red bag and placed it in the envelope

 

[rkf]

Bruce Leshan said yes, they took his car in on May 14th when he returned to the Savopoulos' house.

Is that possible if the SW wasn't issued until the 15th?

ETA: Nevermind. I see that they did take the BMW on May 14th

 

[Bently]

I have a hard time believing he could case the house without being observed. 32nd Street curves around before it reaches Woodland so you can't see anything if you are back at the busy intersection at Cleveland Ave. So he would have to observe from somewhere in Mass Ave Heights and as I've written before, its pretty deserted there and he would absolutely stick out. He would have to try to pass as some kind of laborer but then what would he do -- stand around? Walk up and down the street? Whatever happened to the vacuum cleaner salesman?

I'm of two minds here. This may have been DW tracking down the address and just showing up, with others or by himself. I think thats quite possible. But then again, the duct tape, the gasoline, stealing the video system's dvr (and where is that?), make it seemed like it was planned out and if that was the case, I think there's someone else who is either on the inside or cased the home. And that someone else has or had all the missing items like the cell phones. The guy running from the Porsche was not carrying a dvr. I'm on the fence about JW. His behavior -- lying, having something on his cell phone LE wants, (how did he know the specific amount of money? He could have been told when it was handed to him, he could have counted it, but I do wonder) -- is in some way incriminating, but in other ways he does not act like a guy who is implicated -- the texts to the family when he heard of the fire, for example. If he's involved its a Fargo like situation.

I come back to the cell phones. They weren't stolen for their value, not with everything else in the house. They were either taken because they were seen as a record of the crime (with DW not understanding that the communications could be reconstructed), or a record of incriminating communications before the crime, or because it was thought they could be used as a tool to get more money. But I have trouble believing anyone doesn't know that cell phones can be traced.

DNA on phones ?
Phones contain contact number for all their friends and business Associates?
Passwords for different accounts within the memo section of the phones?
Photograph taken on the SIM card of the Crime or red bag ?
........

 

[popsicle]

The SW was issued May 15th to be exercised by May 16th. https://www.scribd.com/doc/267687232/Wint-Search-Warrant-Affidavit

Read it... the car was taken into custody 5/14

 

[rkf]

With the street blocked off with MPD and the FD he had to park away from the house when he arrived back there.

I'm surprised he was able to park within a block of the house when the fire fighters were on the scene. Do we know what car he was driving that day? Did he switch (not steal) cars at any point?

 

[popsicle]

Is that possible if the SW wasn't issued until the 15th?

It appears he let them take the car.

 

[jjenny]

Is that possible if the SW wasn't issued until the 15th?

Yes, since that's what they did.

 

[Dushi]

I'm surprised he was able to park within a block of the house when the fire fighters were on the scene. Do we know what car he was driving that day? Did he switch (not steal) cars at any point?

I believe it was a BMW

 

[kammiemc]

It's no wonder this guy has not spoken to the media. Can you imagine how every single word he says would be completely picked apart. I would be hiding somewhere if i was him. And sadly if he is not involved (so far i don't see him as being involved) he has had to miss the funeral of people that he may have dearly cared for. Can you imagine if he had shown up at the funeral....OMG he would have been destroyed and it would have taken away from the funeral.

You would think if he had no involvement and was broken up about the deaths and not being able to attend the funeral he would have reached out to family to give his condolences. They have more information than the public about the case and would likely know enough about what has happened that if they assumed his actions meant he wasn't involved, he should have felt that he could/should connect with them. I would assume that he did if he Is innocent.. Does anyone know if he did?

 

[Canaille]

Can someone please help me out here? Am I reading and understanding the charging documents correctly?

JW did not go to the bank with the AIW employee according to his second statement?

I've been looking at my screen for too long. TIA.

 

[jjenny]

I practiced corporate law for years. Wouldn't know what to do in a courtroom or a police station, truth be told. But I would never, ever, EVER under any circumstances allow myself to be questioned by police without a lawyer present (one who knew what they were doing, like a criminal or trial lawyer). It is too easy for the police to misinterpret what you say, put words in your mouth, etc. especially if you are under any sort of stress. I would rather have someone who knew what they were doing represent my interests no matter how innocent I was to prevent mistakes or misunderstandings.

I homeschool one of my kids. If the police came knocking on the door because a neighbor called because they saw a kid outside instead of at school I would never, ever let the police in my home without a warrant. Same reason. Even though my home is neat (most days...), safe, and it is abundantly clear that schooling is being done in my home, I would never allow the police to come in my house. I would be polite to them on the front porch and explain that I follow all the applicable laws of my jurisdiction, but I would not let them inside. It is my right, and I do not care if they do not like it.

JMO of course. I do understand what you are saying, and I know my husband feels exactly the same way you do (if I have nothing to hide why wouldn't I be as helpful as possible). Just as a lawyer, I feel like I was trained to do differently. [Insert lawyer joke here]

That's smart. You can easily be mistaken about something, next thing you know, you are accused of lying, and you name is being smeared all over the internet.

 

[popsicle]

2 1/2 hrs P Defenders with their own crime scene tech's were at the house. Investigators were with them and Prosecutor was there. Nothing of value found on JW. per NBC4

 

[Dushi]

You would think if he had no involvement and was broken up about the deaths and not being able to attend the funeral he would have reached out to family to give his condolences. They have more information than the public about the case and would likely know enough about what has happened that if they assumed his actions meant he wasn't involved, he should have felt that he could/should connect with them. I would assume that he did if he Is innocent.. Does anyone know if he did?

The fact is , we don't know
The family has been understandably quiet and are trying to remain private
We have no idea if he has spoken with them or sent a card or whatever

 

[Gabchar27]

Side note...today would have been the S's 21st wedding anniversary

 

[emmavoberry]

Interesting that the WAPO story you linked (thanks!) seems to takes its info. from the CD, but gets that info wrong (an example of how we might use info in a local news story to argue a fact, while in fact, the info. is not accurate.)

Now maybe the WAPO is privy to "court documents" that are not the same as the "charging documents" we have been referencing on the boards. But it seems from the whole account of JW's account to LE that, in fact, the WAPO source IS the DDW charging document/s.

WAPO quoted (see link to story upthread) "But he later told police, according to court documents, that his boss contacted him the night before, on May 13, and instructed him to collect the money. He never saw the bank transaction and said the accountant handed him the $40,000 in four bundles in a red bag."

NO! In his second version to LE, as the CD states, he says he brought the red bag to the bank with him. The CD does not identify the employee who takes the money the "other employee" gets from the bank as "the accountant." I am guessing WAPO inferred it was the accountant who placed the bundles in JW's red bag based on people they have talked to. What JW corrects in this version is that he witnessed personally the money given to "the other employee" and that that employee directly handed him the four bundles in a manila envelope. He now says the following:

W- l admitted that IT had lied when lT stated the money was in a manila envelope when lr rcccived the money from the other employee.
W- I stated what aclually happened was the other employee took four bundles of money from the employee,s pockets and placed the money in a red bag which belonged to W- l.

In the charging documents we see there are two other employees at the bank that JW meets with. Now we don't know if LE has corroborated JW's second version of what happened at the bank, but we can infer that it has in that it is most likely JW amends his first story to accord with facts LE confronts him with based on these other employees' version, video (banks are full of them), and bank personnel. One of these employees is probably "the accountant."
In any case, JW does NOT contend, according to the CD, that any employee hands him four bundles in a red bag. RATHER, he contends (in his second version) that an employee (one who had taken the money from the pockets of the employee to whom the bank gave the money) placed the money in HIS red bag.

There is a difference. I am not sure what the difference signifies, but as we tell and re-tell stories based on news stories based on differing accounts JW gave based on "court documents" a news story does not identify, we must be careful that we are speculating based on fact, not people's interpretations, mistakes in news stories, or garbled facts resulting from too many cooks (stories) in the kitchen.

 

[rkf]

Porsche was seen being driven away from the scene at 1:30 pm. It's rather obvious to me assistant didn't take it.

No, the Porsche was seen on New York Avenue at 1:30 pm. There has been no report of it seen driving from the scene on May 14th. Last time it was seen at the house was 10:30 am, but that could have been by JW, Mrs. F's husband or someone unnamed.