DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #15

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I dont disagree with you that he could have actually made up stories rather than just forgetting/absent mindedly omitting information. However, do we really know exactly what he told LE or didn't tell LE? We know he admitted to lying but we don't really know how he phrased those lies and I do think that's somewhat relevant. It could be that he was deliberately deceiving them or it could be that he really just was so stressed at the time that he twisted his words around or mussed up the details inadvertently. To me, it's really hard for us to ascertain which actually happened since we don't know exactly how those conversations went (ie how the questions were worded, in what order they were asked, what JW's state of mind was at the time, how exactly he worded his responses...IMO all of those things could be telling but we just don't know)

If we can't believe anything the witnesses say, anything MSM says, anything suspects say and anything LE says, we might as well just fold up our tents and go home. In order to build a theory (or theories) we have to trust people are telling the story honestly to the best of their abilities. (That is why deliberately lying throws such a wrench in the works.). Some people in LE have lied and do lie, with horrendous consequences. But at this point, in this case, I don't have any reason to believe LE is doing anything other than recording what they have been told. I have thought from the beginning that the "JW lied" could have been LE's emphasis because they believed he was involved, rather than the more innocuous "made a mistake". (I like Facundo's skit - I imagined them verbally backing him into a corner as well. But why/how did they know he wasn't being truthful the first time?) It's interesting to me that both are in the doc, so LE made a distinction.

Omitting something because you "forgot" makes sense to me, especially in a stressful situation. Making up a story of how you did something is different to me. It would be like if I told LE that I was on the other side of the street or in a different lane when I was hit, or that I had the windshield wipers on because I had just used the washer fluid... There has to be some reason other than being flustered that someone would create a narrative rather than just say what happened.
 
I've been one who hasn't thought JW was involved but I'm trying to see the other side of it and consider it from the perspective that maybe he is involved so I'm curious...was it reported in MSM or in one of the SWs that JW said he forgot whether he was contacted Wed or Thurs? I don't remember that. I'm not doubting you at all, I just can't remember where that information was posted. Do you by chance have a link to where JW said he forgot? Or actually also links to where he admitted to lying? I have been following since the beginning but it has been hard to keep up! Thanks

https://www.scribd.com/doc/267776483/Search-Warrant-for-BMW p.7 beginning at #7
 
There is no record of JW stating "I lied." The SW only states he admitted he lied.
Here is my reconstruction of how that might have happened. Suppose rather than "I lied" the conversation was closer to the following:

Statement from the SW: Wallace admitted he lied when he said he stated the money was in a manila envelope..
Detective: Jordan, when we’re done here you are going to sign a statement that everything you are telling me is the accurate truth. Do you understand that?
JW: Yes sir.
Detective: Young man, you told me that SS called you this morning to pick up the package. However, it show’s right here on your IPhone that you exchanged messages with SS last night. You told me the accountant placed the money into a manila envelope. We also talked to the accountant at AIW and he said blah, blah, blah. Your story does not hold up, young man. That means you lied to me. Isn’t that right? Now I want the g.d. truth.
JW: Um.. well, right. Actually he stuffed the money into my knapsack. I put it into the envelope before I put it into the car.


Note: This is a fabrication of a possible conversation for which there is no factual basis. Yes, it is still admission of a lie and the reason for lying is inexplicable but it is not proof of complicity in extortion and murder.

BBM. I think there is a record of JW's statement in the form of video/audio recording of his interrogation.

JMO
 
The search warrant, already granted by the court, asks that police be allowed to search for:

Money missing from the $40,000 delivered to the Savopoulos home on the day of the murders



http://abcnews.go.com/US/dc-mansion-murder-unsealed-documents-reveal-targets-probe/story?id=31556293


SW was for the Wint vehicles, not JW
And the SW says "US currency and money wrappers", nothing about "missing money"

Title of article linked is
What Cops Found in Car Mansion Murder Suspect Was Traveling In
 
If we can't believe anything the witnesses say, anything MSM says, anything suspects say and anything LE says, we might as well just fold up our tents and go home. In order to build a theory (or theories) we have to trust people are telling the story honestly to the best of their abilities. (That is why deliberately lying throws such a wrench in the works.). Some people in LE have lied and do lie, with horrendous consequences. But at this point, in this case, I don't have any reason to believe LE is doing anything other than recording what they have been told. I have thought from the beginning that the "JW lied" could have been LE's emphasis because they believed he was involved, rather than the more innocuous "made a mistake". (I like Facundo's skit - I imagined them verbally backing him into a corner as well. But why/how did they know he wasn't being truthful the first time?) It's interesting to me that both are in the doc, so LE made a distinction.

Omitting something because you "forgot" makes sense to me, especially in a stressful situation. Making up a story of how you did something is different to me. It would be like if I told LE that I was on the other side of the street or in a different lane when I was hit, or that I had the windshield wipers on because I had just used the washer fluid... There has to be some reason other than being flustered that someone would create a narrative rather than just say what happened.

Fair enough! I am not at all saying we should question LE. I think you're right that they just recorded what they were told and possibly that they did emphasize that he lied because they thought he was involved. I guess I was just making the point that everyone interprets words and interactions differently. I could have the exact same conversation w/ 2 different people and 1 could potentially come away from that conversation interpreting what I had said as a deliberate lie whereas the other person could have interpreted as me just being flustered/forgetting something, etc. It's not a point worth arguing about, for sure, because we don't know what was said anyway so I give the benefit of the doubt to LE, not to JW.
 
I dont disagree with you that he could have actually made up stories rather than just forgetting/absent mindedly omitting information. However, do we really know exactly what he told LE or didn't tell LE? We know he admitted to lying but we don't really know how he phrased those lies and I do think that's somewhat relevant. It could be that he was deliberately deceiving them or it could be that he really just was so stressed at the time that he twisted his words around or mussed up the details inadvertently. To me, it's really hard for us to ascertain which actually happened since we don't know exactly how those conversations went (ie how the questions were worded, in what order they were asked, what JW's state of mind was at the time, how exactly he worded his responses...IMO all of those things could be telling but we just don't know)

I'm curious how the way JW phrased his lies relevant to this case? He admitted he lied. There is no excuse for an adult lying to police investigating brutal, tortuous murders of four people, including a child. His admission that he lied seemed to be all that was relevant to the Judge.

JMO
 
Aha! In answer to my earlier question...
Search Warrant for BMWunsealed.jpg

The court granted the government's motion to unseal the affidavit supporting the BMW SW on May 29th. WUSA9 published it on June 5th.

Why would the US Attorney ask to have this doc unsealed? If it was to turn up the heat on JW, that means that even after they had DW in custody, they suspected JW of something. Was it in response to a FOI request? If so, perhaps it was determined that releasing this doc no longer posed a threat to the investigation or witnesses.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/267776483/Search-Warrant-for-BMW
 
Coldpizza said:
Do you have a link for that please?

The search warrant, already granted by the court, asks that police be allowed to search for: Money missing from the $40,000 delivered to the Savopoulos home on the day of the murders

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dc-mansion-murder-unsealed-documents-reveal-targets-probe/story?id=31556293

IMO The MSM account that you cite does not comport with the actual wording of the SW, in which there is no reference to "Money missing from the $40,000." The SW states "..currency, money wrapprs, a red lined bag, etc." At the time the SW was issued LE had no accounting breakdown of the money and no reason to state that any amount was missing from the total.
 
IMO The MSM account that you cite does not comport with the actual wording of the SW, in which there is no reference to "Money missing from the $40,000." The SW states "..currency, money wrapprs, a red lined bag, etc." At the time the SW was issued LE had no accounting breakdown of the money and no reason to state that any amount was missing from the total.


Exactly right.
 
I'm curious how the way JW phrased his lies relevant to this case? He admitted he lied. There is no excuse for an adult lying to police investigating brutal, tortuous murders of four people, including a child. His admission that he lied seemed to be all that was relevant to the Judge.

JMO

You're right that ultimately all that matters is that he did lie, not how he worded his lies. My point was that we don't know 100% for sure that he deliberately lied rather than omitting or misrepresenting some facts because he was flustered/stressed. That distinction does matter because to me he would seem a lot more suspect if he concocted some fabrication deliberately trying to mislead LE or divert their attention from him whereas I'd be less suspicious of him if he had, under great stress, stated things in a way that was not factual but was not intentionally deceptive/nefarious.
 
SW was for the Wint vehicles, not JW
And the SW says "US currency and money wrappers", nothing about "missing money"

No reference to Wint vehicles. The SW was for JW's 2009 BMW.
 
No reference to Wint vehicles. The SW was for JW's 2009 BMW.

SW for Wint vehicles, page 10
The article linked was titled :

"What Cops Found in Car Mansion Murder Suspect Was Traveling In"
 
I'm curious how the way JW phrased his lies relevant to this case? He admitted he lied. There is no excuse for an adult lying to police investigating brutal, tortuous murders of four people, including a child. His admission that he lied seemed to be all that was relevant to the Judge.

JMO

You are assuming JW knew about murder. That information was not released to the public while JW was questioned. It was only stated that two bodies had been removed from the house and that one person had been taken to the hospital.
 
SW was for the Wint vehicles, not JW
And the SW says "US currency and money wrappers", nothing about "missing money"

Yes, which means there is still part of the $40,000 unaccounted for.
 
You are assuming JW knew about murder. That information was not released to the public while JW was questioned. It was only stated that two bodies had been removed from the house and that one person had been taken to the hospital.

Yes, I am assuming JW knew about the murder. I'm also assuming LE read him his rights prior to interrogating him.

JMO
 
SW for Wint vehicles, page 10

I'm sorry I don't have a SW for Wint vehicles. I have only a SW for JW's BMW and it is only 7 pps.

OK, you are referring to the Chevy Cruz and the box truck.

I agree with you.

This convoluted debate actually began with this post to which Admin requested a link for citation.

I think JW was called out for lying because LE still don't believe him. There is a big chunk of money still missing and he was the last known person to have it.

JMO

At any rate, there is no support for "missing money" in either SW. ;)
 
You're right that ultimately all that matters is that he did lie, not how he worded his lies. My point was that we don't know 100% for sure that he deliberately lied rather than omitting or misrepresenting some facts because he was flustered/stressed. That distinction does matter because to me he would seem a lot more suspect if he concocted some fabrication deliberately trying to mislead LE or divert their attention from him whereas I'd be less suspicious of him if he had, under great stress, stated things in a way that was not factual but was not intentionally deceptive/nefarious.

It would appear that, in this case, LE (people who were present and are trained and experienced in interviewing people in relation to crimes) determined that JW lied--not that he misrepresented due to being flustered. They did not tell the media "the assistant was very flustered and misspoke a few times, but corrected his story to the account that we have now determined to be true." I imagine that happens a lot. That is not the case here as it would seem.
 
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