DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #19

[BellaVita]

Are there similar overkill hostage ransom cases? What is the profile of someone who would be this brutal and focus on the son? I still think AS could easily have been the focus? Why didn't perps rape and torture her? People keep saying PS was better leverage but I disagree. I think they are pretty equal so why the child? Did he accuse someone of molesting him recently?

IMO, this was not a true ransom case where a dispassionate observer chooses to kidnap someone, take them to a secret location and try to extort money. IMO, the killer did not focus on PS except as a means to an end. AND, we don't know whether AS was raped or not. I'd be surprised if that didn't happen. I believe the true source of the anger was SS. What was reported about PS, I believe that was shown to SS and AS. I believe that the killer did what he did to AS with the sword that belonged to SS. And took great pleasure in SS being there to watch it happen. A profiler stated that the killer took pride in what he was doing. I believe that, no question.

 

[Peliman]

Bringing this post over for reference.

Hi all. This thread has been an interesting read. Though I have been hesitant to register for various reasons I thought some background on DC criminal procedure might be helpful.


Just as background, in D.C. every defendant charged with a felony has an initial hearing within 48 hours of their arrest called a Presentment before a judicial officer at which time the preliminary charge is read and an immediate temporary detention decision is made. He is then entitled to a preliminary hearing within so many days (actually 20 for felonies) but in most murder cases the atty asks for a later date so they can be as prepared as possible. Obviously defense investigation needs to start asap. The atty would also be filing discovery demand letters on the govt. & serving subpoenas even thought the govt doesn't turn over discovery until the def is arraigned (i.e., charged formally with the indictment). At the PH the defense gets what's called Jencks material - some of the forms and notes made by the PH witnesses (not everything that wit completed but that which comes under the Jencks Act - there are often battles over what should be labeled Jencks material - sometimes a reason for a bench conference).


That PH also acts as a detention hearing and determines whether the def will be held or released under release alternatives. In murder cases preventive detention is almost a given.


At his arrest (when he is first held) a clock starts ticking for the return of an indictment. The govt has 9 months to indict or the court has to reconsider release conditions. Every time the defense requests a continuance at this stage they must also waive that time period and the clock is suspended. It restarts when the case gets back on its procedural treadmill. So Wint waived all that time he used to change attorneys giving the govt more time to get their indictment.


The case also has to go before a grand jury for indictment. Had there been an indictment before the PH date then it would negate the right to a PH - a detention hearing would have still been held but in cases like this it's almost pro forma taking minutes, maybe seconds - upshot, the def is not getting released.


I've read discussions wondering why Wint hasn't been charged yet with all 4 murders. When someone is arrested the govt just charges with a bare bones complaint so he can be appropriately held and the case can start. You can't read anything into it. Wint has not been indicted yet and that is where you will see all the charges against him. I thought they might have indicted him by the time of the PH and then they would have just held an arraignment rather than a PH.


I wasn't present for this PH but when there is an affidavit that supports an arrest warrant then at a PH all the govt does is ask the Detective to adopt it and query if there is anything to add or correct. The judge then reads the affidavit and that becomes evidence and essentially the govt's silent testimony. As many posters have noted the govt does its best to not make this hearing about discovery. In fact, with the strong case against Wint outlined in the affidavit (DNA at crime scene AND during crime, possession ransom money) many judges would never have allowed any questioning about other persons since that wouldn't negate PC against Wint. Ago is lucky in his judge. She gave Ago a lot of leeway.


Case still needs GJ indictment despite having a PH: I suspect that this case has already been presented to at least one if not 2 or more grand juries. I seem to recall reports that witnesses were already appearing before a GJ back in May. Sorry no cite for that. I believe that for summer GJs are just sitting for a month each. Depending on their start and end dates, there might have already been 3 GJs (May, June and July) that have heard bits and pieces of this case. It can be a long process since each new GJ that takes evidence in a case has to have all the prior GJ testimony and evidence presented previously read to it. When a reading session is scheduled it gets bumped if that time is needed for a live witness in any other case so that can delay an indictment's return.


So patience is needed. Nothing Wint has done so far has delayed or stalled this case. A GJ has been working on it from early on and they have many months to get their indictment. The current procedural stage is that the case has been bound over to the GJ.

Hope this wasn't too long or too convoluted but it seems to waste people's energy and time when they are left guessing about what's next. And to be clear, this is for D.C.

 

[FelicityLemon]

IMO it was very important to DW. Two days after slaughtering four humans he's off with $1,100 of the blood money hiring an immigration lawyer.

Agreed! Yes, sorry, that was rhetorical on my part in regard to the comment of him running and hiding. I meant that the $1100 was ONLY a retainer and that to defend his potential deportation with his violent criminal convictions (had he never murdered people) it would cost much more than that. Why spend $1100 hiring an attorney if you're going to run and hide. Answer: you wouldn't waste the money you'd need if you're running.

I do believe he thought he'd skate just like always. My opinion is that it was inevitable he would kill again as many times as he could get away with it. He had little reason to think otherwise since he attempted murder twice before that we know of and that was in addition to multiple threats of murder.

Why was this guy even out? Same question with so many murderers who wouldn't have had the opportunity if they had had adequate sentences and actually had to serve full time. I know this is a debate for another forum, but greatgoshalmighty, make room in prisons for crap like this and free the low-level nonviolent peeps.

*grumble grumble grumble*

 

[TexMex]

I totally agree with you FL. Great post.

Agreed! Yes, sorry, that was rhetorical on my part in regard to the comment of him running and hiding. I meant that the $1100 was ONLY a retainer and that to defend his potential deportation with his violent criminal convictions (had he never murdered people) it would cost much more than that. Why spend $1100 hiring an attorney if you're going to run and hide. Answer: you wouldn't waste the money you'd need if you're running.

I do believe he thought he'd skate just like always. My opinion is that it was inevitable he would kill again as many times as he could get away with it. He had little reason to think otherwise since he attempted murder twice before that we know of and that was in addition to multiple threats of murder.

Why was this guy even out? Same question with so many murderers who wouldn't have had the opportunity if they had had adequate sentences and actually had to serve full time. I know this is a debate for another forum, but greatgoshalmighty, make room in prisons for crap like this and free the low-level nonviolent peeps.

*grumble grumble grumble*

I've just been watching 48 hrs and just as we saw in the murder of Travis Alexander, the victim gets trashed completely. I know that won't happen to the Savopoulos' but it's already been happening to JW outside of court and he's not even on trial. I can't imagine what he'll go through during trial whether he's called to testify or not.

 

[katydid23]

Why would DW actually fight this in the courtroom? Seems like he'd just go into hiding, get a fake identity or something. Doesn't really fit to me.

But there a description of a receipt for the immigration lawyer described by the documents. So it seems he did plan to fight it in court.

 

[JayMac]

I'm a bit interested in the lawyer DW paid $1,100 to two days after the crime. It didn't do him much good but I'm wondering why. Would a client/lawyer privilege be established? Did DW have a passport? Was he trying to flee the country?

Not sure if anyone has answered you yet but, yes, there would be an attorney client privilege. If it can be established the money came from the ransom proceeds then I'm sure the lawyer will have to return the money if he hasn't already done so - though I doubt he would have billed much against the retainer in any event.

 

[rkf]

If JW wanted to steal one of the cars, why do a home invasion and kill the family? That makes no sense. He could have had DW do a 'fake' car jacking when he took one of the cars for an errand.

I bet they wish they thought of that! If he only had eyes for the Mosler, I don't think he ever drove it, but certainly not without SS in the car. It's just a crazy theory, but no crazier than whatever reason DW et al had for perpetrating this crime IMO.

 

[rkf]

Great info on the Mosler. I know it's been debated ad nauseum, but I still think JW was thrilled to have this job for SS and didn't have motive to screw it up with this crime.

Since I'm new, pls correct me if I am focusing too much on motive!

I think he was thrilled in the beginning, but if he thought he would get close to the S family and SS would then sponsor him, like someone else posted here, that doesn't seem to have happened. SS was a means to and end for JW. When he spotted that Mosler in the Autobahn parking lot (if not before), JW drew a bead on SS and set out to get SS' help in his racing career. He didn't count on PS taking up all SS' racing bandwith. I'm not saying this led to involvement in the crime, although it's as good a motive as any, but I personally believe it's no coincidence that JW got fired and asked SS for a job when he did. JMO

 

[rkf]

Had a doctor tell me once "when u hear hoofbeats, look for a horse, not a zebra." Usually the simplest explanation is best. So if trying to concoct a scenario that places DW there but without culpability requires too much fanciful thinking, then the simpler explanation of him being the sole perp is likely to be more accurate, I suppose.

He can have culpability without being the only one there.

 

[al66pine]

Why would DW actually fight this in the courtroom? Seems like he'd just go into hiding, get a fake identity or something. Doesn't really fit to me.

Perhaps he realized, the prob w 'going underground' is that when arrested next time w false ID, that fingerprints will be matched and his real ID - and crim history - would be revealed.

In prior arrests, hadn't he already 'borrowed' his brother's or cousin's names? And didn't his bogus claims surface?

JM2cts, could be wrong.

 

[CoreyRocks]

If it wasn't about money, what would be the point of staying in the house overnight waiting for 40 k to be delivered (a highly risky behavior).
He might have wanted cash only to make sure he wouldn't be caught. If he was already afraid of deportation, I am sure he didn't want to get caught with stolen goods.

Just thinking out loud here ....IMHO DW went there for money .... and wanted ALOT of money and intended to kill the family after he got the money and get out of dodge under the cover of darkness. When it was not there nor easily accessible (we know LE looked at and took papers in an upstairs office regarding multiple bank accounts) ....I believe Savvas being intelligent and soft spoken (as stated in articles) would be continually trying to buy more time to get help, alert someone, or find an opportunity to act somehow.

In martial arts isn't it alot about focus and mentally out smarting your opponent. I would believe Savvas would do anything to save his family ..like tell DW that he could get 40K (a doable amount because he did) cash the next day when the banks opened. 40K would sound better than nothing to DW since he had to kill everyone anyway. Savvas could have been thinking that eventually DW might get tired and make a mistake. The more time went by maybe someone would show up or put two and two together with some of the texts or messages.

Maybe and we don't know Amy and Savvas could "see" one another. He SS could have maybe reassured the ladies even with his eyes ... don't panic .. maybe if DW got tired enough SS could convince him to let Amy or Vera go to the restroom .. maybe ....

I am fairly certain Savvas would have tried everything.

I believe that is how it turned into an overnight ordeal with SS buying time and hoping for a window of opportunity. The longer DW was in the home the more chance he would make a mistake. Just my opinion

 

[rkf]

IF it was a hit, I would guess DW was only there to be the fall guy, not the actual perp. I'm trying to imagine what hoops the defense would have to jump through to make that believable.

It bothers me that LE suggested multiple perps because that leaves room for reasonable doubt. Why would they publicly state that if only a hunch?

If DW didn't act alone, he's still equally culpable if he was at the house to commit certain felonies and/or he knew the murder(s) were going to take place. Even if it was a hit and DW was the lookout, DW is guilty of felony murder. The fact that he has at least one of the victim's blood on his shoe means he was not served his pizza in the backyard, never entering the house. His DNA is in the house, with no legitimate reason for him to be there. I think we're just looking for who else is guilty (if anyone). The defense would have to construct such a fantastic and unbelievable story to show DW wasn't involved - I don't think it will fly. On the other hand, typing this makes me think about the fantastic stories we have to construct to explain why JW has been at every important nexus of this crime, but is not involved. This is going to be a fascinating trial.

 

[BondGirl]

Perhaps he realized, the prob w 'going underground' is that when arrested next time w false ID, that fingerprints will be matched and his real ID - and crim history - would be revealed.

In prior arrests, hadn't he already 'borrowed' his brother's or cousin's names? And didn't his bogus claims surface?

JM2cts, could be wrong.

So he's thinking about his future logically on the one hand......yet committing the most heinous crime in his personal history? These conflicting perceptions of DW don't jive.

 

[BondGirl]

Just thinking out loud here ....IMHO DW went there for money .... and wanted ALOT of money and intended to kill the family after he got the money and get out of dodge under the cover of darkness. When it was not there nor easily accessible (we know LE looked at and took papers in an upstairs office regarding multiple bank accounts) ....I believe Savvas being intelligent and soft spoken (as stated in articles) would be continually trying to buy more time to get help, alert someone, or find an opportunity to act somehow.

In martial arts isn't it alot about focus and mentally out smarting your opponent. I would believe Savvas would do anything to save his family ..like tell DW that he could get 40K (a doable amount because he did) cash the next day when the banks opened. 40K would sound better than nothing to DW since he had to kill everyone anyway. Savvas could have been thinking that eventually DW might get tired and make a mistake. The more time went by maybe someone would show up or put two and two together with some of the texts or messages.

Maybe and we don't know Amy and Savvas could "see" one another. He SS could have maybe reassured the ladies even with his eyes ... don't panic .. maybe if DW got tired enough SS could convince him to let Amy or Vera go to the restroom .. maybe ....

I am fairly certain Savvas would have tried everything.

I believe that is how it turned into an overnight ordeal with SS buying time and hoping for a window of opportunity. The longer DW was in the home the more chance he would make a mistake. Just my opinion

Which he did with the pizza! Who knows maybe that was SS's plan to get DNA.

 

[JayMac]

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing this info! Does this mean that in the PH both sides would need to stick to what was in the charging docs and not get into any newer information?

Kammie, yes. That's the general idea. It's not newer information that would be irrelevant to negating PC but rather charges not yet brought or lines of inquiry that wouldn't negate PC for DW. That can be tricky if they all sort of meld together into one crime. But since we haven't been privy to the bench conferences it may be that Ago convinced the court to let him probe a bit into other areas.

 

[rkf]

Ok, so please tear this apart!

Someone or group wants to enact revenge against SS. They find DW because he has priors and worked at one time for AIW. They tell him, "we are expecting a drop at the house and need u to be there." They promise him something in return--$40k or car or whatever. He agrees, ends up at the house etc but something unexpected happens or he realizes other perps intend to harm family so he bolts with Porsche. Scared he will be caught, he hires a lawyer to get him out of the country. Others in the house kill family, set fire.

Ssssssttttrrreeeeeeeeettttccccchhhh

If he left before the massacre, he would be unlikely to have victim's blood on his shoe. Even if he ate cold pizza that morning instead of the night before, he puts himself in the house during the crime.

If you're an organized crime gang, I think you have your own people. Why share any proceeds/pay someone outside your gang? Why trust someone outside your gang to be there? That sounds more like someone having a grudge against DW putting him at the scene so he can go down for this horrendous crime, making the S family and VF collateral damage.

I'm not sure how hard it would be for him to get out of the country. He hadn't even been flagged before this crime and he's a Guyanese citizen. He could just go home.

JMO

 

[rkf]

Why would DW actually fight this in the courtroom? Seems like he'd just go into hiding, get a fake identity or something. Doesn't really fit to me.

Since he hadn't been flagged, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even know his immigration status could be in peril. Maybe he was trying to bring someone here from Guyana.

 

[JayMac]

I think that we do know for sure that he was not arrested. The defense would HAVE TO be told already if there had been another arrest in this case. And if they knew he had been arrested thrn their line of questioning would have been much different than it was, imo.

Katy, you're correct in that if there had been other arrests they would be known - if people are paying attention. I'm sure Ago knows the names of the convoy members from his client.

All arrestees who have been held have to be presented before a judicial officer in court within 48 hours. The case is papered by the USAO and the charges start through the system or no papered (dismissed). There are some arrested on misdemeanors and/or traffic charges released at the precinct to return to court from anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks later. At this date I don't see this applying to the convoy.

If a co-defendant had been arested then it would be public. We don't have secret arrests. Of course, I don't know all their names but others must know.

If a member of Wint's convoy had been arrested or charged then we'd also know that. For them, I suspect either they convinced the USAO they were assisting in Wint's surrender or they are cooperating enough that no charges are being considered or any charges will be dealt with at a later time. If any of them were subpoened to the grand jury then they would have been appointed attorneys for 5th Amendment purposes even if no charges are contemplated. If charges are contemplated then the 5th Am. atty would be working on that in conjunction with their testimony - if they do testify. The USAO is not going to reveal its witnesses until it has to.

 

[BondGirl]

If he left before the massacre, he would be unlikely to have victim's blood on his shoe. Even if he ate cold pizza that morning instead of the night before, he puts himself in the house during the crime.

If you're an organized crime gang, I think you have your own people. Why share any proceeds/pay someone outside your gang? Why trust someone outside your gang to be there? That sounds more like someone having a grudge against DW putting him at the scene so he can go down for this horrendous crime, making the S family and VF collateral damage.

I'm not sure how hard it would be for him to get out of the country. He hadn't even been flagged before this crime and he's a Guyanese citizen. He could just go home.

JMO

So if he hadn't been flagged why would he feel such an urgent need to hire an immigration attorney....... So dire that he'd commit the worst crime he's ever committed (that we know of)---torture, kill four people, burn a house, steal a car and burn it right by his residence? This is not making sense to me! He doesn't seem like a guy who would worry about an attorney until the 11th hour when ICE came calling on him. Was he that much of a planner to be pre-emptively working just in case he got flagged....yet not plan this crime better?

 

[CoreyRocks]

Which he did with the pizza! Who knows maybe that was SS's plan to get DNA.

Absolutely ... that crust is key evidence. I would like to believe Savvas FOUGHT to the end even if he couldn't physically.

I also like to imagine if given a chance over all that time to use the restroom that they could somehow lhave left notes or words to one another in soap or gel under a cabinet or something. Wishful thinking on my part that they somehow could have tried to comfort one another even during all the EVILNESS.