DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[kammiemc]

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?

In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

Any parent would gladly give their own life to save their child's life. Take one look at DW and you know he is not right. He might have been high as a kite holding a knife to PS's throat (and I am so sickened to say that, but we know things got much darker than that) and SS might have believed he could buy time without risking his son's life by complying.

If I were his wife, I would be pissed if he even slightly considered my future feelings over doing whatever actions he thought had the best chance of saving my child. SS seemed to be an honorable, smart man. I kind of can't believe we are criticizing his actions when we have no idea what they were. He might have fought DW or even ran for the door. He might have done all sorts of things we don't know about. In the end, he lost in the worst way. But maybe he did try to do some brilliant things, but against a cold-hearted, insane killer, he had no chance.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Sometimes in cases you know things without direct evidence, but rather as a reflection of other direct evidence. Direct evidence: a silent night. Reflection: "the dog that didn't bark."

The direct evidence here includes:

- 4 people killed in a house which is then set on fire
- Report in WP (leaked from LE) that Wint wore gloves while eating pizza

So, Wint wore gloves even while eating pizza in order to conceal his identity. The 4 people were killed also to conceal his identity, because they could identify him and maybe even knew his name. If they could identity him, Wint wasn't wearing a mask.

Wint probably showed up at the house wearing gloves, a neon-green workman's vest and no mask. He probably stayed that way the entire time and presented himself in this manner when SS came home.

Try to remember that if you ever come face to face with a violent criminal. Is he wearing gloves? Is he wearing a mask? The absolute worst combo is gloves and no mask. This is the face of your death. Do anything to get away.

Finally, IMO Wint set the fire not to pretend that the 4 people died in a fire (a story that couldn't stick because of the ransom delivery) but to destroy any remaining physical evidence of Wint's identity.

If he did that he's not sane or rational. If you don't want to kill 4 people due to your own problem that you created, wear a mask so you don't create the problem. Any number of criminals committing violent offences for profit conceal their identities and don't kill.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not sure I know what you mean unless you're speculating not all the money had been delivered?
Criminals know other criminals so I do think jewellery and cars are easily converted to cash between them.
I had my own car stolen in daylight from under my nose and was told by the police that within hours it would likely be loaded in to a container to be shipped abroad.

Valuable, luxury cars aren't that easily converted to cash which is why the highest number of cars stolen are Hondas.

Model: Honda Accord

Total thefts: 53,995

Most frequently stolen model years: 1990-1997

Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/10-most-stolen-vehicles-

 

[CARIIS]

Hi everyone, I have been lurking a lot. The murders being so senseless and sad makes it difficult to think about. Nonetheless, the S family and Vera deserve justice.
I am very interested to know why W-1 was let go from the go-kart race job in March 2015. I have so many questions. To start: Was W-1 putting too much info out there about SS business? Did W-1 have any resentment toward the S family or was this a crime of opportunity? Did SS approach W-1 about his postings? If you were a business owner, would it bother you if the hired help was posting the way W-1 was posting? Bragging about his ride "office" of the day? Just thinking...my two cents.

IMO, a crime of opportunity? he just did too many dumb things! I think :

Intermittent explosive disorder involves repeated episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which you react grossly out of proportion to the situation. Road rage, domestic abuse, throwing or breaking objects, or other temper tantrums may be signs of intermittent explosive disorder.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...osive-disorder/basics/definition/con-20024309

 

[bostonstrong]

I wondered about this too. Dog are protective. Could they have been drugged?

guess im not the only who had this idea...

 

[CARIIS]

bbm sbm

Re using box truck as cover to observe family? I don't recall seeing anything about DDW using truck that way but could have happened. As others here noted neighborhood has lots of hustle-bustle w lawn care, housekeepers, remodeling, nannies, etc., so lots of diff vehicles. Would box truck w big graphics sitting for days or even hours-long stretches go unnoticed there, as it might in a business dist? IDK. Seems like a passenger car would be lower key.

Do we know location of 'home base' ofthis truck? In DC metro-area or 100+ mi away. IIRC, it had Carolina plates, but IDK if that necessarily means it could not be based say in MD, VA, etc. Trying to figure out how DDW would have easy access to use truck on his whim? JM2cts.

And Paulas88 WELCOME to W/S!!!!

I have no idea where I get this from (!) but I think the truck was gotten by family members, not actually him

 

[jd dickinson]

If he did that he's not sane or rational. If you don't want to kill 4 people due to your own problem that you created, wear a mask so you don't create the problem. Any number of criminals committing violent offences for profit conceal their identities and don't kill.

You are conflating morality with sanity. Wint knows that it's wrong to kill people, but doesn't care about the wrongness of killing people from a moral or empathetic perspective. It's not a "problem" for him in that way. However, it is a problem for him if he kills these people and is caught, or if killing them delays his escape.

This is narcissistic personality disorder. An absence of empathy. But not, I think, insanity or irrationality.

It's easy for you to say that he should have worn a mask. But, how would he get in the house? The pretext was apparently acting like a workman coming to the door. So, what does a workman look like? Neon-green vest, work gloves and no mask. That's what he wears in order to get the door opened when he rings the doorbell.

As he thinks through the crime, he realizes that he can be identified later if he shows up without a mask. "So I kill them after I get my money," he thinks. Then he wonders if he will leave physical evidence that will incriminate him in their killing. "So I burn the house down after I kill them."

These are all rational deliberations by someone who couldn't give a rat's *advertiser censored* if people need to die in order for him to get and keep his money. I think there are a lot more of this sort of criminal than you might think. They just don't typically do it on such a grandiose scale. More typically, they're shooting convenience store clerks over $100.

 

[passionflower]

Question to everyone...................
if you were a new employee and your employer asked you to get a large amount of CASH and deliver it with the description of putting it in a car..............would you do it? would you question why?
this bothers me.
would you think something was wrong? would you ask for help? Thanks for answers

 

[CARIIS]

That's what I don't get - what commonalities? I'm not being argumentative, it's a genuine question and I keep forgetting to ask. I 've looked online for connections and because I've had a headcold this past several days, I know I'm being unusually dense and cranky and frankly, just not "here". :/ argh.

Wint worked at AIW 10 years ago - owned by SS
JW met SS while working at Autobahn
JW now works for SS

I hope you feel better soon..........................

 

[SophieRose]

For all we know LE has video from a neighboring house that isn't good enough to ID anyone and would have no reason to release to the public, but is good enough to show in blurry stick figures what had been going on in the street leading up to the events and LE has confirmed that some of the blurry stick figures didn't belong.

In one of her news conferences, the police chief said they had lots of surveillance video from the nearby areas.

 

[CARIIS]

Right, in fact this is exactly one benefit to come from this case for my wife and me. We've agreed that if she ever needs to communicate that she's in danger, she will use my full name instead of my short name. (Example: Daniel vs Dan.) We came up with this because it's so easy to remember and so easy to put into practice, instead of trying to work in some very odd safe word.

As for the judging / MMQ, I think it would be far worse to think passively about crime as something that just happens to people and then they are victims. There are always options, even if they are bad options. The S case is a situation with particularly bad options, but they were still options. Personally I find it helpful to think through basic rules and responses, so I can react decisively in the moment.

As one example, I've told my wife never to let anyone with a weapon take her away to another location. That's basically a death sentence plus rape, so it's better to take the bullet if necessary, when there is still a chance of getting help. If she gets lucky, maybe no bullet. The time to think this through is not when a gun is pulled on you.

you guys are scaring me! I am sleeping very close to my doggie tognight!

 

[slyname1]

This small detail bugs me. Why did W1 have a manilla envelope in his car? He put the money in his red bag when he got it from the other employee but then moved it to this manilla envelope when he got to the house.

I'm assuming he kept some money in his red bag, perhaps the money that he took pictures of.

 

[MyBelle]

This small detail bugs me. Why did W1 have a manilla envelope in his car? He put the money in his red bag when he got it from the other employee but then moved it to this manilla envelope when he got to the house.

I'm assuming he kept some money in his red bag, perhaps the money that he took pictures of.

I've wondered the same thing about that manilla envelope. How did he know to bring a red bag AND a manilla envelope? He only needed both if he intended to divide the money.

JMO

 

[birpu]

I've wondered the same thing about that manilla envelope. How did he know to bring a red bag AND a manilla envelope? He only needed both if he intended to divide the money.

JMO

Yes the bag and the envelope are a huge problem for me. I don't know why he would bring the bag to start with, either.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes the bag and the envelope are a huge problem for me. I don't know why he would bring the bag to start with, either.

It makes absolutely no sense unless he was in on it.

JMO

 

[birpu]

This small detail bugs me. Why did W1 have a manilla envelope in his car? He put the money in his red bag when he got it from the other employee but then moved it to this manilla envelope when he got to the house.

I'm assuming he kept some money in his red bag, perhaps the money that he took pictures of.

Well, LE would know what time the 10-minute ahead call came. And they would know what time the photo was taken if they looked at the data on it. So they should have a good idea if the red bag photo was before or after the drop. After the drop is a pretty big problem.

 

[Cricket99]

I aml not really responding to "this" post - but a theme that has been consistant here. It is interesting to me. Dog lover, walk mine, and tend to be a acute observer, if by accident (personality trait) of things around me. I am interestedm however, in why so many seem to think that he spent much time "staking" out the the house.

He strikes me, and the whole thing the way it played out, as a totally impulsive, violent individual. He does not strike me as a "planner" - he got word , gossip, a large amt of cash was going to be around, wanted it, walked in and did his evil deed -

It then occurred to me, does it like make a lot of folks "feel better" to think that this took a lot of planning ( like it could not happen to me???) YOu know what I am asking

I think he is a very impulsive person- and lots of, frankly, stupid sh$$, who the heck orders pizza in the middle of felony ? I mean -- just a moron!!!IMO!!

That is the most insightful post I have read on here in days. Thank you - I have said this from day one.

 

[slyname1]

But if W1 did take some of the money he would have to be incredibly stupid to take a picture of it and text it to someone else. It has been speculated that W2, who received the text, is the other house keeper. This is so outrageous it is the one act that makes me think he wasn't involved.

I'm also curious about the part of the charging documents that state LE showed W1 texts that indicated SS called W1 Wednesday not Thursday. Were the texts LE saw while looking through W1's phone while they were together going over his phone or did LE have this text from another source? ie did the text go to another employee(s) who had already provided the info that the request was made Wednesday?

 

[Paulas88]

I've wondered the same thing about that manilla envelope. How did he know to bring a red bag AND a manilla envelope? He only needed both if he intended to divide the money.

JMO

Maybe SS instructed JW to put money in a Manila envelope... So he stopped at office max on way to work...prepared.

 

[Paulas88]

Maybe SS instructed JW to put money in a Manila envelope... So he stopped at office max on way to Work