DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[Inthedetails]

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?

In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

It's a great question and my honest answer is that I can even picture my husband fleeing. I know the man, and he would stay with us no matter what. His thought would probably be taking down Wint physically. I think SS was trying to outwit Wint.

Unfortunately, sometimes the irrational man with the weapon wins. But only in the short run. He'll be punished and condemned, and the SS family and VF will live on in our admiration and affection. And sometimes, that has to be enough to get us through

 

[stmarysmead]

He was newly hired, but SS had known him for quite awhile through his other job. SS gave him the keys to the Porsche, the Bentley and the expensive sports car. There had to be a certain amount of trust there. And when his and his family's life depended upon it, he trusted JW to deliver the ransom.

We really truly don't know that SS "trusted JW to deliver the ransom." He may have been told by DW to use him.

We all are putting our own feelings...whether positive or negative...into the scenario of this crime. For all we know, SS may have been ready to let him go.

We can imagine one way or the other, as long as we remember...we are just "imagining." Myself included.

 

[jd dickinson]

No, surprisingly not the same answer. If my husband fled and called 911 and stayed outside screaming that the cops were coming etc, then I would totally understand his actions. And if I died but he saved our kids, I would not haunt him, I would be his guardian angel. :angel:

This also feels emotionally correct. I anticipated that a mother might be willing to risk her own life, but not her child's life.

Unfortunately, that's not good enough. I think Wint threatened the boy all along, and controlled the parents through the boy.

This leads to a terrible calculus. The man must be willing to be disowned by his own wife in order to make what I still believe is the correct decision. If the child dies, it's the husband's fault. The wife will always believe that there was a way for the child to survive.

 

[Paulas88]

How so?

When DW was apprehended with the box truck in his entourage... iIt had to mean something? Which brought me back to JW. JWs life is cars. His passion for cars was his initial opening with the SS family. Also... When JW is driving SS around, I'm sure SS is on the phone making business deals, he seemed like a very powerful man! There was some article where a personal friend of SS said, SS was a very shrewd business man and had many different interests. Business interests. However, the box truck could have been just a cover for DW, using it to observe the family and not stick out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood. I just keep wondering? WHY the SS family... I'm sure everyone in that area is extreamly wealthy. Was it just because of a past employment?
And how would DW know that the security system would disarm or videos weren't uploading 24/7.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?
In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

You know, that is a really great question. I would never forgive my husband if he ran out the door and my child was killed. I would expect him to risk his own life for our children. And I would expect me to do the same. I think though that my husband probably thinks more along the lines of the way you did.

 

[jd dickinson]

In all honesty, I would probably never forgive my husband if he ran out the door after seeing a knife to one of our kids throats. :sigh:

I would not care about 'surviving' if I watched my child's throat slit and my husband hightail out of the door to save the two of us.
Divorce court and lots of visits to the shrink would follow, most likely.

As a second answer to your same post ...

I've revised what I think I would want to do in that situation. I still think it makes sense to head for the door, yelling "I'm calling 911!" However, once that call has been made (20 - 30 seconds outside), I'd do more than merely yell in the front door, "The cops are on the way!" I would come after Wint any way I could, coming in the front door (leaving it open) and tracking him down. I'd also grab anything I could use as a weapon or shield.

If I could somehow flush Wint out of the house, that would be the best outcome. But, at a minimum, I would be delaying Wint considerably, because he would have to turn his full attention to me instead of possibly trying to kill the women.

This doesn't save Philip: only Wint's decision to save his own skin can save Philip. But, I think it saves the women.

So, Philip still has 50/50 odds of surviving. I put the adult women at 90% now. And I'd put my own at 70%, because I'd be taking on Wint and making myself the next most likely to die. I figure I need only 3 or 4 minutes at most until Wint runs away, knowing that the cops are on the way.

 

[emmavoberry]

The article on JW (linked to upthread) reported LE as having stated that the murders would have "required" more than one person. I don't challenge their determination, but wonder how they came to it. As the story relays, investigators addressed what the murders required, not controlling victims, logistics, or even setting the fire. It would seem some evidence directly connected to the murders--way carried out, weapons, whatever--suggests more than one perpetrator, if not for the duration, then during the horrific last moments before the fire.

 

[Just K]

Excellent article, I didn't know he was a competition licensed SCCA member.


<snip>

The Savopoulos family had already met Jordan Wallace through the Jessup Maryland Autobahn Speedway, and Wallace had coached young Philip for a while until Jay Howard was hired. “Savvas had mentioned that he had met someone earlier but kind of moved on from him,” said Howard.

Then Wallace was fired from his job at the Autobahn Speedway and contacted Savopoulos in late March looking for a job. “Jordan was out of a job. The kid seemed really nice,” said one Savopoulos associate from the racing world who knew and had met Jordan Wallace. “Savvas said he got fired from his job and Jordan reached out to Savvas.”

Savopoulos hired Wallace in mid April to be his driver and personal assistant. Immediately Wallace began posting photographs of him driving the Savopoulos fleet of high end sports cars and tweeting about his new job “Driving for a #DC CEO”.

Lots of details, Thank You!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

One thing that has been on the back of my mind and why I think of JW willingly or unwillingly being involved is that I don't how DW and crew could spy on the home for a considerable amount of time without drawing attention to themselves. It's been said on here that they could have disguised themselves as service personnel and knocked on the front door to get in, but if there was days of planning beforehand where they watched the family, from where did they watch and how. I remember very early on it was reported that recent work had been done on the house with the contractor signs still visible - I wonder if SS hired a Wint through one the contractors who had done that work on the house and that's how the spying was done?

 

[popsicle]

As a second answer to your same post ...

I've revised what I think I would want to do in that situation. I still think it makes sense to head for the door, yelling "I'm calling 911!" However, once that call has been made (20 - 30 seconds outside), I'd do more than merely yell in the front door, "The cops are on the way!" I would come after Wint any way I could, coming in the front door (leaving it open) and tracking him down. I'd also grab anything I could use as a weapon or shield.

If I could somehow flush Wint out of the house, that would be the best outcome. But, at a minimum, I would be delaying Wint considerably, because he would have to turn his full attention to me instead of possibly trying to kill the women.

This doesn't save Philip: only Wint's decision to save his own skin can save Philip. But, I think it saves the women.

So, Philip still has 50/50 odds of surviving. I put the adult women at 90% now. And I'd put my own at 70%, because I'd be taking on Wint and making myself the next most likely to die. I figure I need only 3 or 4 minutes at most until Wint runs away, knowing that the cops are on the way.

Truly the best action to take is to hit the alarm button on your key fob and then launch your attack. imo

 

[TexMex]

When DW was apprehended with the box truck in his entourage... iIt had to mean something? Which brought me back to JW. JWs life is cars. His passion for cars was his initial opening with the SS family. Also... When JW is driving SS around, I'm sure SS is on the phone making business deals, he seemed like a very powerful man! There was some article where a personal friend of SS said, SS was a very shrewd business man and had many different interests. Business interests. However, the box truck could have been just a cover for DW, using it to observe the family and not stick out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood. I just keep wondering? WHY the SS family... I'm sure everyone in that area is extreamly wealthy. Was it just because of a past employment?
And how would DW know that the security system would disarm or videos weren't uploading 24/7.

But the cars were not stolen (except Porsche to flee and it was torched). There were 18 hours to steal cars. I'm willing to wager SS would have handed over keys and pink slips within 10 minutes of returning home to find his family and VF in danger. But no. The maniac spent the night making sure that he would have money as soon as the bank opened.

 

[bostonstrong]

i am not trying to be snarky (disclaimer)

but i really dont get when stuff like this happens and all the monday morning quarterbacks come out of the woodworks. 'he should have done this, he should have done that. he should have fought back. he should have run away when he saw what was going on!" (what??!?!)

mrs petit should have done something (well she did folks, she alerted the bank teller. the bank and the cops screwed up, not her)
elizabeth and jaycee and the cleveland 3 should have escaped! (easy to say when your not in that situation either, captive for months or decades and trapped behind walls that are not just phsyical)

i just dont get it. sorry. its easy for us to sit here in the comfort of our homes with our computers in front of us and say 'well we would have done this or that!"

but we cant say that nor should we judge what other people did/didnt do.

ALL JMO

 

[Canaille]

True: we don't know whether Wint would slit Philip's throat in that situation.

But, as a man, I want to ask you and other women in this forum a question. Would you forgive your husband if he fled out the front door calling 911 in that moment, and then your son had his throat slit in response?

In this scenario, everyone survives but Philip. Wint isn't wearing a mask.

I have to admit that part of my hesitation in that moment isn't just about the son, it's about facing my wife thereafter. So, I want to know what the reaction might be.

In my mind, I'm probably giving Philip 50/50 odds, myself 90% odds, and 80% odds that my wife and the housekeeper survive. If I surrender myself to Wint, I'm giving all of us about 25% odds of survival, if I thinking clearly and Wint isn't wearing a mask. It's an emotionally wretched choice, but it isn't logically tough, in the situation as described, when I can identify Wint.

I would expect my husband to fight this somehow. Especially if it's only one or two people involved. And considering the kind of temper I have, I think I would have fought too. I'm of the mindset that I'd rather go down fighting than to just be taken down.

But, I know...that's easier said than done.

Makes me really second guess martial arts training. I've seen black belt tests and part of that test included having to fight off at least half a dozen other participants.

And we don't know how SS was confronted. He may have been knocked out upon entering the home.

 

[jd dickinson]

Truly the best action to take is to hit the alarm button on your key fob and then launch your attack. imo

Excellent response. An audible house alarm with a call for help, taking no time at all, while surprising Wint.

You've just convinced me of the value of such an alarm with remote on the keys in your hand as you walk in the door.

 

[Peliman]

Lots of details, Thank You!

Keep in mind it appears to be a wordpress blog but the press isn't real reliable either. All the same it was interesting. I'm not the original poster of the find, don't remember who was.

 

[Paulas88]

But the cars were not stolen (except Porsche to flee and it was torched). There were 18 hours to steal cars. I'm willing to wager SS would have handed over keys and pink slips within 10 minutes of returning home to find his family and VF in danger. But no. The maniac spent the night making sure that he would have money as soon as the bank opened.

Very true.

 

[nikki80]

i am not trying to be snarky (disclaimer)

but i really dont get when stuff like this happens and all the monday morning quarterbacks come out of the woodworks. 'he should have done this, he should have done that. he should have fought back. he should have run away when he saw what was going on!" (what??!?!)

mrs petit should have done something (well she did folks, she alerted the bank teller. the bank and the cops screwed up, not her)
elizabeth and jaycee and the cleveland 3 should have escaped! (easy to say when your not in that situation either, captive for months or decades and trapped behind walls that are not just phsyical)

i just dont get it. sorry. its easy for us to sit here in the comfort of our homes with our computers in front of us and say 'well we would have done this or that!"

but we cant say that nor should we judge what other people did/didnt do.

ALL JMO

I don't get that anyone is doing that. I think they are all saying what they would do in this situation.

 

[Canaille]

Dennis Rader managed to kill a family of 5 all on his own. If I recall correctly, they were all black belts. You can read it on Murderpedia. I won't link it because of the disturbing photos at the end of the transcript.

But Rader apparently entered the home when one of the kids let out the dog.

 

[popsicle]

Keep in mind it appears to be a wordpress blog but the press isn't real reliable either. All the same it was interesting. I'm not the original poster of the find, don't remember who was.

Nikki80

 

[bostonstrong]

I don't get that anyone is doing that. I think they are all saying what they would do in this situation.

and my point is 'how can you be sure what you would do in that situation?"

we can all talk big behind a keyboard.......it might be different story when its our own butts on the line