DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[nikki80]

and my point is 'how can you be sure what you would do in that situation?"

we can all talk big behind a keyboard.......it might be different story when its our own butts on the line

well it's a forum... everything is up for discussion. I don't get that anyone is "talking big" IMO.

 

[nikki80]

You have people in here giving very good advice, then you have people in here giving not so good advice. You never know how someone's post may help someone in the future. I don't get anyone is in here victim blaming and if they are, shame on them!

 

[Peliman]

Slight change in the preliminary hearing date, moved up one day.

Event Scheduled

The following event: Preliminary Hearing scheduled for 06/23/2015 at 9:30 am has been rescheduled as follows:

Event: Preliminary Hearing
Date: 06/22/2015 Time: 10:45 am
Judge: REID WINSTON, RHONDA Location: Courtroom 316

 

[popsicle]

and my point is 'how can you be sure what you would do in that situation?"

we can all talk big behind a keyboard.......it might be different story when its our own butts on the line

That's rich considering we don't know the experiences of the members on this board. I personally am a survivor of mine.

 

[stmarysmead]

We really need some news.

 

[sleuthinginca]

That's rich considering we don't know the experiences of the members on this board. I personally am a survivor of mine.

Ditto!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

We really need some news.

This is a totally unrelated case - former House Speaker Dennis Hastert - but it talks about the banking laws that have been discussed here in this case:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...t-mistake-changing-his-pattern-of-wthdrawals/

 

[jd dickinson]

That's rich considering we don't know the experiences of the members on this board. I personally am a survivor of mine.

Right, everyone has a different history. I was given a plaque for what I did in a tough situation many years ago. At the same time, my wife has nicknamed me Call for Backup because I'm forever critiquing how various people respond to danger, usually in TV dramas and movies. It takes no time to call for backup, and doing so will dramatically turn the odds in your favor.

And no, that didn't work for Jennifer Petit, but it should have. That's what was stunning about that case, more than the home invasion itself.

I think it helps the odds if your opponent knows that backup is on the way. There's no way those Petit rapes and murders would have gone down if the perps had known police were coming for them, slow as they were.

Criminals don't want to be caught. Convince them that they need to leave immediately or they will be caught.

 

[doubt]

Thanks.

But whoever heard of that? Don't think it qualifies as a source. Far cry from MSM.

MOO

 

[OTPTarheel]

If SS walked in, and saw DW with a knife to his son's throat, SS had a big decision to make. I understand your premise, that it would have been 'better' for SS to flee at that moment. And in doing so, it would force DW to make the most rational decision left to him, which is to flee out the back. 'Why harm anyone at that point?', you rationalize him thinking.

But I would have a hard time fleeing if I saw an intruder with a knife to my 10 yr olds throat. I don't think I could do it. And I am not convinced it is the best strategy. EVIL people are not always rational or logical. They would just as soon slit the boy's throat and then run.

SS had no way to know if DW had already slaughtered the rest of the family. if so, what would prevent him from killing the boy thne to in retaliation for SS fleeing?

And how could SS ever forgive himself if DW slit the boys throat in response to SS running? It may have ended up with SS being the only survivor. That would be a true He!! on Earth for the poor man.

I remember hearing some LE or profiler say on some show (AMW, 48 Hours, you name it I watched it) years ago, that if you don't get away in the first 3 or 4 minutes, you probably won't get away alive. That has always stayed with me.

And since we know DW mingled with the other criminals, who probably use hard core drugs, DW could had drugged/shot up AS, VF, and threatened to do the same to PS.
We won't know until the autopsy reports.

 

[Inthedetails]

i am not trying to be snarky (disclaimer)

but i really dont get when stuff like this happens and all the monday morning quarterbacks come out of the woodworks. 'he should have done this, he should have done that. he should have fought back. he should have run away when he saw what was going on!" (what??!?!)

mrs petit should have done something (well she did folks, she alerted the bank teller. the bank and the cops screwed up, not her)
elizabeth and jaycee and the cleveland 3 should have escaped! (easy to say when your not in that situation either, captive for months or decades and trapped behind walls that are not just phsyical)

i just dont get it. sorry. its easy for us to sit here in the comfort of our homes with our computers in front of us and say 'well we would have done this or that!"

but we cant say that nor should we judge what other people did/didnt do.

ALL JMO

I don't think we're seconding guessing, judging, or Monday morning quarterbacking as much as we talking to each other, just like we would if we were in a group in person. We don't have new fact to discuss at the moment and we're mulling over the case in other ways.

Sometimes new theories can come out these discussions, or we'll bring something we learn from this case into another one....or, as I've seen in this particular case, we come up with some safety precautions to use in our own lives. The "safe word" idea is one that I've brought up with my family, and that came directly from what WSers said they wish SS had in his associations with business cohorts.

I think most, if not all, of us respect and truly like what we've learned of the S family and VF. None of our discussions, as far as I can tell, are disrespectful or taking "I could do better than they did" attitude. We recognize SS was in an impossible situation.

(I do remember thinking this same thought with the first case I followed on WS - I remember posting that people were in a feeding frenzy. I've come to see this board in a much different light now.)

 

[bostonstrong]

and if mr s or any of the others had alerted authorities directly, they might have just sped up their own deaths for all we know.

mr s, i do believe, was sending signals not that anyone got them. or if they did, were involved themselves in the crime. i dont think mr s had a chance to call police or alert a bank teller here.

now i'll got sit in the corner with my dunce cap on cause i obviously dont know what im talking about.

 

[bostonstrong]

I don't think we're seconding guessing, judging, or Monday morning quarterbacking as much as we talking to each other, just like we would if we were in a group in person. We don't have new fact to discuss at the moment and we're mulling over the case in other ways.

Sometimes new theories can come out these discussions, or we'll bring something we learn from this case into another one....or, as I've seen in this particular case, we come up with some safety precautions to use in our own lives. The "safe word" idea is one that I've brought up with my family, and that came directly from what WSers said they wish SS had in his associations with business cohorts.

I think most, if not all, of us respect and truly like what we've learned of the S family and VF. None of our discussions, as far as I can tell, are disrespectful or taking "I could do better than they did" attitude. We recognize SS was in an impossible situation.

(I do remember thinking this same thought with the first case I followed on WS - I remember posting that people were in a feeding frenzy. I've come to see this board in a much different light now.)

thanks for this post.....the way im reading really does look like second guessing and monday morning qb'ing though. i truly cant say i will venture that i would do diffrentley cause i have never been in a situation LIKE THAT......but i didnt exactly get raised in the brady bunch house so i know what its like to survive under the threat of terror for years....
JMO

 

[heartfortruth]

and my point is 'how can you be sure what you would do in that situation?"

we can all talk big behind a keyboard.......it might be different story when its our own butts on the line

I am taking these various scenarios postulated as just IDEAS about what one MIGHT do if confronted with what could be a "do or die" situation. The ideas presented just make me think about possibilities. I think in some way many (or most) of us are putting ourselves in the place of this most cruelly captured and tortured and killed people and thinking ....what would I do if it were me? my family.....what if, what if. I don't see it as "talking big"...JMO

 

[emmavoberry]

This was a life and death matter. I think SS would no more entrust the money drop off to the new kid than he would have let him in on the company's day to day financial operations. Not just a matter of trusting him with the money, but trusting he won't tell someone, panic, get stopped on the way for driving too fast, that the accountant and the person sent to the bank would not question handing over that amount to someone so untested, a company outsider despite known to the family. I wonder why JW would lie about when he got SS call--saying first, Thursday, and by voice, then have to admit it was Wed., the night before, and by text? I agree though that it's hard to see a DW/JW connection. Also does seem reckless of JW if he had planned to pull this off to leave such a blatant photo and text trail behind.
One more thing: The article linked to about JW today reports that LE have said the murders would have required more than one person to carry out. What evidence might suggest this to them about, not the hostage taking and control, the logistics, the fire setting, but the actual horrific killings?
I hope they all had hope that they could be delivered, especially the child.
Finally, I don't think SS (or anyone else) had any choice but to attempt to comply. I do think some choreography went into waylaying them and how to control. That's the part I'd think shows the need for more than one person. But according to the JW feature, LE specifically says the murders called for more than one. All of this speculative stuff is just my speculative stuff.

 

[Peliman]

Found this somewhat interesting

D.C. Mansion Murders: Daron Dylan Wint Was Apprehended Thanks to DNA But Some States Allow Less Testing Than Others - HNGN Legal Analyst Heather Hansen Explains

The methods law enforcement used to identify and arrest Wint raises some concerns about the balance between DNA collection and civil liberties - and how DNA searches vary from state to state.

<snip>

However, some states allow for collection of DNA from people who have been arrested for a serious offense. There are 28 states which allow for such collection, along with the federal criminal justice system. Different states have different requirements, but two-thirds allow for the collection (usually via a mouth swab) after an arrest. Others allow the same after an arraignment where probable cause has been proven. There are still 22 states that do not allow for such collection at all.

http://www.hngn.com/articles/95543/...s-daron-dylan-wint-apprehended-thanks-dna.htm

 

[citygirl]

As a second answer to your same post ...

I've revised what I think I would want to do in that situation. I still think it makes sense to head for the door, yelling "I'm calling 911!" However, once that call has been made (20 - 30 seconds outside), I'd do more than merely yell in the front door, "The cops are on the way!" I would come after Wint any way I could, coming in the front door (leaving it open) and tracking him down. I'd also grab anything I could use as a weapon or shield.

If I could somehow flush Wint out of the house, that would be the best outcome. But, at a minimum, I would be delaying Wint considerably, because he would have to turn his full attention to me instead of possibly trying to kill the women.

This doesn't save Philip: only Wint's decision to save his own skin can save Philip. But, I think it saves the women.

So, Philip still has 50/50 odds of surviving. I put the adult women at 90% now. And I'd put my own at 70%, because I'd be taking on Wint and making myself the next most likely to die. I figure I need only 3 or 4 minutes at most until Wint runs away, knowing that the cops are on the way.

I tend to agree. Following the Petit case and this one there is a part of me that says take a risk. All this is in hindsight of course. What I have learned is you can't wait it out with these crazy people. NOTHING is gonna get better if you do what they say. Do what ever you can no matter what to get to the outside, if you can. Take that small chance. Just go for it. MOO.

 

[jjenny]

Right, everyone has a different history. I was given a plaque for what I did in a tough situation many years ago. At the same time, my wife has nicknamed me Call for Backup because I'm forever critiquing how various people respond to danger, usually in TV dramas and movies. It takes no time to call for backup, and doing so will dramatically turn the odds in your favor.

And no, that didn't work for Jennifer Petit, but it should have. That's what was stunning about that case, more than the home invasion itself.

I think it helps the odds if your opponent knows that backup is on the way. There's no way those Petit rapes and murders would have gone down if the perps had known police were coming for them, slow as they were.

Criminals don't want to be caught. Convince them that they need to leave immediately or they will be caught.

Perps in the Petit case claimed they saw police cars outside but killed the victims anyway.

 

[emmavoberry]

Have the feeling we will hear soon as to other people charged, but then a long silence before the trial. Although certainly reporters will keep digging, gossiping, and eavesdropping for leaks.

 

[jd dickinson]

I don't think we're seconding guessing, judging, or Monday morning quarterbacking as much as we talking to each other, just like we would if we were in a group in person. We don't have new fact to discuss at the moment and we're mulling over the case in other ways.

Sometimes new theories can come out these discussions, or we'll bring something we learn from this case into another one....or, as I've seen in this particular case, we come up with some safety precautions to use in our own lives. The "safe word" idea is one that I've brought up with my family, and that came directly from what WSers said they wish SS had in his associations with business cohorts.

Right, in fact this is exactly one benefit to come from this case for my wife and me. We've agreed that if she ever needs to communicate that she's in danger, she will use my full name instead of my short name. (Example: Daniel vs Dan.) We came up with this because it's so easy to remember and so easy to put into practice, instead of trying to work in some very odd safe word.

As for the judging / MMQ, I think it would be far worse to think passively about crime as something that just happens to people and then they are victims. There are always options, even if they are bad options. The S case is a situation with particularly bad options, but they were still options. Personally I find it helpful to think through basic rules and responses, so I can react decisively in the moment.

As one example, I've told my wife never to let anyone with a weapon take her away to another location. That's basically a death sentence plus rape, so it's better to take the bullet if necessary, when there is still a chance of getting help. If she gets lucky, maybe no bullet. The time to think this through is not when a gun is pulled on you.