DCF Shelter and Custody Hearings #2

[concernedmother]

Once he is convicted, his parental rights are gone. Right? Mary will most likely get permanent custody. She can then raise the kids however she wants and move where ever she wants.Her day is coming. She can then tell MS to kiss her <snip>. jmo.

 

[kaen]

Once he is convicted, his parental rights are gone. Right? Mary will most likely get permanent custody. She can then raise the kids however she wants and move where ever she wants.Her day is coming. She can then tell MS to kiss her <snip>. jmo.

I think the most important part of his keeping/losing parental rights will be looking at how to maneuver that around the girls. It will be one thing if the state does it and MAG is passive in the process. I hazard to guess that if MAG has anything to do with it from the girls' perspective it will further solidify them as supporters of their father. They will not really know everything until they are older. If (when) convicted, MS will continue to proclaim his innocence, look to an appeals process, etc. The girls will most likely be much closer to the age of majority before this is settled. Mark will not have lots of control going forward but I believe he will slow down any process he can in order to keep a tether on his girls. Avoiding being convicted allows him to solidify the story of his victimization to them. It is inevitable, yes. Quick and without control drama? Nope.

 

[Oregonmama]

Once he is convicted, his parental rights are gone. Right? Mary will most likely get permanent custody. She can then raise the kids however she wants and move where ever she wants.Her day is coming. She can then tell MS to kiss her <snip>. jmo.

yes but the girls would be older by that time and Mary just probably needs to see where they stand with their feelings. They have a lot healing to do first. I should say de-programming first then they can heal.

 

[Matlacha]

. . . One thing is for sure. They will be shielded from the trial itself. If MS continues to slant his comments against TS' family, that weaning will start sooner rather than later.

I'd have a totally different approach. If I were MAG, AL, or other members of Teresa's family, I'd ask that the girls (at least the 11-year-old) read CWW's confession. That might break Mark's grip, or at least demolish the lie that MAG is behind Mark's situation. At 11, I was thinking deeply and rejecting some of my parent's beliefs, and I'm surely not the only one. From what I've read about Teresa, I think she'd want the girls to know the truth rather than remain in a false reality concocted by a sociopath (which would really just be extending their abuse).

 

[tlcya]

Heads up guys! Doc dump

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...nations-for-Documents&p=12565184#post12565184

 

[atthelake]

I'd have a totally different approach. If I were MAG, AL, or other members of Teresa's family, I'd ask that the girls (at least the 11-year-old) read CWW's confession. That might break Mark's grip, or at least demolish the lie that MAG is behind Mark's situation. At 11, I was thinking deeply and rejecting some of my parent's beliefs, and I'm surely not the only one. From what I've read about Teresa, I think she'd want the girls to know the truth rather than remain in a false reality concocted by a sociopath (which would really just be extending their abuse).

:escape:

To do that to a child, that sounds self-serving, brass and cruel to me. Perhaps it doesn't to most others.

:moo:

Perhaps ideas like this even being considered is a reason they AND the family need to be going to a trauma counselor.... to help the family guide the children through this mire.

 

[Dmacky]

Speaking of the girls' healing process, it will never totally happen. They will carry it with them for the rest of their lives. In their case, healing will be coming to terms with the situation. They have spent their whole lives with their dad as their main caregiver. At their ages, they have wonderful memories of their mother. MAG seems to try and give them similar experiences that their mother would have given them. But, MS was the one who controlled their lives and he made sure they got to do all the fun stuff. They trust him and everything he says to them. He has manipulated them to the point they aren't allowed to trust their mother's own family.

It so wrong that, even in jail awaiting trial, he is still controlling them. I believe he has his mother cowed and well-manipulated as well. She knew she couldn't handle two lively girls. She knew she couldn't deal with a long-term commitment.

I always hope that such children will, when adults, examine the facts brought out at trial and find their father lied to them.

There's a man in Minnesota, Mark Jensen, who faces a new trial on the murder of his wife, Julie. He had a wife/ex-lover who ended up raising his sons. They were younger than Teresa's girls at the time of the murder, but just as well manipulated. It broke my heart to hear the eldest, now-grown son refer to Julie as his "biological mother." He wasn't allowed contact with his mother's family. He can't get through his father's manipulation of the facts to see what really happened. I pray he takes a better look at his father's new trial and is able to see the truth.

I don't want this for Teresa's daughters. I hope they are weaned off the daily contact with dear-old-daddy-dearest over the next few years and start to see the reality of what happened to their mother. The judge made the right decision to keep them with TS' Mom. she will slowly gain their trust.

One thing is for sure. They will be shielded from the trial itself. If MS continues to slant his comments against TS' family, that weaning will start sooner rather than later.

Excellent post Carolina, and so heartbreakingly true. Teresa had 3 kids actually. While she worked her arse off to provide for her family, Mark stayed home and played with the girls. Kids are impulse driven, and Mark seems to be as well. Things like going up on the roof and playing cards? This is NOT a parents mentality at all, but more childlike. Of course if daddy says it's safe, it has to be. That was the message he was sending those little girls, that the roof is a safe place to play. It's his job as a parent to teach them right from wrong, and keep them out of harms way. SMH
He was full of adventures for the girls.
Sometimes a road trip to Orlando to play with "his friends" kids...cough, cough. Of course daddy was playing too, while all the kids were in the pool
swimming. I don't think MS ever disciplined his kids, he was more of their friend. And by being their friend, that made the girls closer to him unfortunately. And they believe everything he says to them, and he knows it and thrives on it. He kept those little girls secluded in the house their mother took her last breath in for 7ish months. Filling their heads with lies. Blaming everyone but himself. I doubt he ever even gave them time to grieve for their mother. Right after they were told their mother was murdered, he wanted to know who all wanted to go to the beach.

I don't know that they'll ever be able to overcome so much tragedy in their young lives. It's heart wrenching to think of what lies ahead for them, with MS taking this to trial. Trials take years (I never got that concept of a speedy trial) There is no way he will ever admit to anything, even if there is clear evidence that PROVES he is lying. He is a bona fide psychopath.

 

[MsJosie]

Is there really any good way, at any age, to break the news a spouse killed a spouse, a dad killed a mom, a mom killed a dad or anyone got killed. All things need to be taken into consideration and like you said counseling is so needed. Letting the girls read CWW confession and info on MS involvement is touchy, but if the girls ask, if counselors are there and all approve, then so be it. I think the girls will be in denial for some time. Grandma Mary has a lot of work head of here and she willing is taking the work on with love gor the girls. What does concerns me, and I speak from family experience, a shock can be very dangerous to someone with diabetes....it killed a cousin, finding out about a family member sent her into shock. A freak thing maybe, but it happened. I hope ALL think first of the girls, however we know MS does not think like that and BS follows her son....the brother is awful quiet in all of this...interesting. Bless MAGS and her family and the girls.

 

[Zuri]

Fox 4 Now news segment on the hearing which includes snippets of the phone calls and a couple clips of MAG testifying:

[video=youtube;BdXSDHOA5TQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdXSDHOA5TQ[/video]

I am so taken aback by his sneering, inappropriate laughter. No one else was smiling or laughing. This man is seething with rage IMO.

 

[JanetElaine]

Once he is convicted, his parental rights are gone. Right? Mary will most likely get permanent custody. She can then raise the kids however she wants and move where ever she wants.Her day is coming. She can then tell MS to kiss her *advertiser censored*. jmo.

Unless it has been stated this will be so for this specific case, then no, that is not likely. Parents do not automatically lose their parental rights if they are convicted of a crime. He obviously won't have custody, but he will still have his parental rights unless it would be specifically determined for reasons other than being convicted of a crime that he should be stripped of those.

 

[human]

But-but-but- we've already seen the damage MS has done on the girls from day 1, they don't think he's done anything wrong, they've been programed to believe their father is in jail because of "other" people.
He is NEVER going to admit to them that he was the one that had their mother murdered, they know NOTHING else.
Having jail visits will only reinforce that brainwashing further. "See we get to see our daddy now" AND "we get to talk to him on the phone and he tells us how to be safe from those evil people that put our Daddy in jail".
They CANNOT fathom their Daddy did that, because Daddy says Jesus is watching over us and WE always tell the truth.
NO matter how much treatment they get, they CANNOT be made to believe that Daddy did that to Mommy.
He had them too long before he was arrested, can we imagine all those LONG talks he had with them? I can. The "I love you and you know I would NEVER hurt you or Mommy" and on and on and....
I believe they will grow up to be adults that feel wrong was done to Daddy.
He was the fun guy that let us do ALL kinds of fun stuff when Mommy was at work, remember girls? I never let you down , even after Mommy was dead, we still did all those fun thing.
Talk about children paying the price for a parents evil, this one tops it!!
They've already expressed they don't want to be where they're at now, this will only make it worse for them on any possible recovery. Unless they are sat down and given the REAL truth, one word at a time and the whole story, but even then, NO ONE CAN MAKE A CHILD BELIEVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, if a person they LOVE has told them different. Sorry to sound like a downer.
I once knew (35 years ago) a 4 year old child that was set on top of a hot red stove burner by her mother and placed into foster care, and that child screamed for hours every night for her mother. Just an example of a childs brain function. At that time I had 2 foster babies , brothers, 6 months old and 18 months old and cried for their drug addicted mother that left them alone every night,by themselves in the same crib with 2 other brothers from the time the 6 month old was born. They loved to go on their weekly visits with Mom, because she fed them candy. This is the mind and heart of children and dcf and the judge should know better. Some my opinion , some not (fact).

This is so true! I see it over and over again that children want their parents to love them so they accept anything and dream about thier parents who love each other and them.

I cannot imagine this point what the therapist is saying as the therapist cannot talk about daddy as murderer.

 

[Frigga]

But he wouldn't just be convicted of some random crime- he'd be convicted of orchestrating the brutal killing of the children's mother? How can someone like that have parental rights? That's insanity, IMO.

 

[Lawdog99]

Does anyone know how MS reacted to Judge's ruling, I have not seen or heard anything on his reaction of this loss.

 

[Matlacha]

I am so taken aback by his sneering, inappropriate laughter. No one else was smiling or laughing. This man is seething with rage IMO.

As at the funeral--luckiest man alive:

They say I shot a man named Gray
And took his wife to Italy
She inherited a million bucks
And when she died it came to me
I can't help it if I'm lucky

Read more: Bob Dylan - Idiot Wind Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Letting this man have any unsupervised contact with the girls is criminal. The way he behaved towards BS and the girls in recorded calls shows that. And from the first clues about his texts to Teresa and all those months of isolation with the girls, I suspect it's too late to protect them. Eleven-year olds aren't what they used to be, even with a normal parent. Let them see reality, or keep them stranded in Mark's matrix?

 

[DaleTray]

I think the most important part of his keeping/losing parental rights will be looking at how to maneuver that around the girls. It will be one thing if the state does it and MAG is passive in the process. I hazard to guess that if MAG has anything to do with it from the girls' perspective it will further solidify them as supporters of their father. They will not really know everything until they are older. If (when) convicted, MS will continue to proclaim his innocence, look to an appeals process, etc.

Agreed. I am guessing MS will drag this whole process out with appeal after appeal,but think, he will get much use out of his new custom auctioned suit.

 

[1&2&3]

I do wonder what the girls know about the death of their Mother? The girls should be turning 9 and 12 soon as it seems they have been this age forever.

This is difficult to word to get the meaning clear! At 11, she can figure out much more in her head than we know. Do she and her sister talk? If so, then the 8 year old knows as much as her big sister. One of these girls was closer to her mom, it is the way things usually are with children. It would be an advantage to know which one and talk with her to see what her feelings are.

At their ages, it is my opinion they should not be shielded by the truth. They do not need to know the gory details, however, lying to them that their father will be home in a few years is the worst deceivement possible! I realize MS is doing this, but GAL or the therapist needs to get it stopped. The girls cling to every word MS says and how broken will they be when they discover he has lied to them and all the people around them went along with it?

I think of it in the way of a divorce. When a parent leaves all of a sudden, and the child wants to wait for daddy to come to eat dinner with him, what does a mom tell the child? Make up a story, child is insistent on waiting, add a little more to the story to make it past their bedtime? Child is stubborn and still insists. Child had an intuition something was wrong and was not buying the story the mother was telling her. Yes, this was me at 8 years old! I KNEW something was wrong with what my mother was telling me! She finally told me the truth. Honestly, I believe had she succeeded in not telling me, the hurt would have been much worse and my belief in her would have been crushed!

This is why I firmly believe these girls need to be told the truth! They have missed their mom for a year now and had their brains filled with massive lies. The truth will be devastating whenever they learn of it, don't keep dodging the eventual outcome. Let an experienced person sit down with them and slowly build the story. The longer they cling to false hope, the more devasting the truth will be.

My opinions only

 

[msboo]

HOUSE STATUS, JARVIS..... A couple of people asked this yesterday, also wondering if the girls had some things still there. I'm sure MAG would not go there. Wonder if DCF or who they stayed with right after MS arrest took them back for things they would want---then would have been a good time for that vs now.

I asked someone with family down the street. "BS is no longer coming to the house... no one has been seen there at all. The yard is like a jungle, especially the back yard and gate is still left wide open."

Many weeks ago, when the power was turned back on, there were some men in suits(?) seen in the front yard. Someone thought it might be a lender or real estate guys. Nothing heard about that since. Back then a poster here mentioned last time BS was seen was just after the power was off, that she couldn't get in (had been using garage entry). Power wasn't off long at all. Not sure if BS was there after that since the house topic sort of died out.

Hate that for the neighbors.

 

[JanetElaine]

But he wouldn't just be convicted of some random crime- he'd be convicted of orchestrating the brutal killing of the children's mother? How can someone like that have parental rights? That's insanity, IMO.

Oh I completely agree. But that's how it works...

 

[MsJosie]

HOUSE STATUS, JARVIS..... A couple of people asked this yesterday, also wondering if the girls had some things still there. I'm sure MAG would not go there. Wonder if DCF or who they stayed with right after MS arrest took them back for things they would want---then would have been a good time for that vs now.

I asked someone with family down the street. "BS is no longer coming to the house... no one has been seen there at all. The yard is like a jungle, especially the back yard and gate is still left wide open."

Many weeks ago, when the power was turned back on, there were some men in suits(?) seen in the front yard. Someone thought it might be a lender or real estate guys. Nothing heard about that since. Back then a poster here mentioned last time BS was seen was just after the power was off, that she couldn't get in (had been using garage entry). Power wasn't off long at all. Not sure if BS was there after that since the house topic sort of died out.

Hate that for the neighbors.

Special thanks MsBoo for finding this info out.

 

[leelee114]

Time for my once a year post. If those girls have any access to the Internet then the oldest at least knows a lot more than people here (and likely in her family) think. Even sheltered modern 11 year olds don't think in terms of some of what I have been reading here.Does anyone genuinely think that the oldest girl has no clue that her father is gone because he has been accused of having someone viciously murdering her mother?!? I'm almost laughing at the idea that an 11 year old is going to be thinking in terms of missing fun daddy who is just away for a few years and oh what a shame about mommy but he'll be back. They are young not stupid and from my experience children with the most manipulative parents aren't always manipulated successfully but are instead good at pretending to believe everything they are told.

They have been pulled around so much lately with people they trust likely providing totally contradictory information so what is a modern child going to do? Google it. If that oldest girl was left alone with Internet access for two minutes she was googling. So I am on team be up front and honest especially with the eldest because at this point secrecy and skirting around the issue is likely further damaging a child who likely spent months having her psychotic loser father filling her mind with utter BS only to learn how untrue it may have been yet he is still trying to further mislead her. That can lead to wondering why the adults in her life aren't acknowledging,confirming or denying the information she has been discovering. There are probably questions they are too afraid to ask because they don't want their father to know yet aren't sure why their mother's family isn't fully cluing them in either.

Those poor kids need to learn to live in their new normal and unfortunately for them part of that existence is being the daughters of a man who had their mother killed. I'm not saying toss them an iPad and let them browse the crime scene photos but instead that they desperately need age appropriate truth from their mother's family ,not infantilizing them and letting them live in a fantasy world.This sort of situation shouldn't be any child's reality but it is theirs and the bandaids need to come off so they can start to heal.