DCF Shelter and Custody Hearings #2

[simlyme]

As I said above in human #551, the girls were damaged mentally by ms until his arrest and are being more damaged now by jail visits. That is a win to the girls, they will see him cry, and laugh WITH them. It will enforce that daddy is being done wrong by everybody else, and that daddy is the fun guy that taught them everything in the how many month? he had them ALL to himself after he had Teresa murdered. I do NOT believe these girls will ever believe he did such a thing. It will become harder and harder on MAG and her family to try and raise the girls. You just cant lead a "colt" to water. They should NOT have been shielded from the start, no matter the pain or hurt. IT WAS THE TRUTH and the truth should have been told or at least explained in a manner they would have grapped it. It would have been difficult for any therapist to do that then, but, it is their job and it would have been done. I really question whether it can ever happen now.

 

[kimi_SFC]

I want to see the signed Order as soon as it is available. I'm reading stories from both WINK & Fox4 about the letters and jail visits being supervised. I know MSM attempts to do their best but the paralegal in me won't feel confident about any of this until I see the specifics detailed in Judge Branning's executed Order.

Hopefully it will be filed and available today.

I'm still upset about the lack of restrictions regarding phone contact - both in frequency and dismissing the GAL's request for 3rd party monitoring. :sigh:

RBBM:

Wow beach, I'm so thankful we have your expertise here!

:takeabow:

ITA with every word of your post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SurfieTX]

I wonder what the judge thinks now after seeing how sexually obsessed Mark is.

 

[ScotAng]

Does the court consider the murderer's mother a suitable supervisor of his calls and letters? That can't be right or at least, it shouldn't be right. Third-party supervision makes sense, but not any family member on either side. IMO.

Totally agree. Now that she has, in effect, been 'called out' by the Judge, I'd like to think she would feel ashamed of her part in this. Like to. Probably the fact it's now in the public realm would be more accurate on that score. I doubt she expected that. Hello Sunshine Law, I love you!

It's clear she didn't want the girls from the beginning. I don't judge her for that, it would be a pretty daunting responsibility for someone much younger in age, way more so at her age. Where I DO judge is her absolutely not having the girls' best interests at heart, but dancing to the tune of the son who put her in this position and clearly gives not a chit about her. She is in a position to tell him to go to hell. And would in a heartbeat - if her real concern was for the girls.

She's proven she's untrustworthy, the Judge should have ruled no 'phone calls from him at all to her house when the girls are there. Neither she nor her son are wired right, there is truly something rotten at play here.

 

[Matlacha]

I wonder what the judge thinks now after seeing how sexually obsessed Mark is.

Yes, a guy tabulating his O's, delighted when his daughters "catch" him in sexual behavior, grooming the girls to believe every word he says, and suspected of having had their mother murdered. So the judge allows his phone calls and visits to continue, but cautions Mark not to manipulate the girls any further. Why does this loser get a second chance, judge?

 

[Niner]

As I said above in human #551, the girls were damaged mentally by ms until his arrest and are being more damaged now by jail visits. That is a win to the girls, they will see him cry, and laugh WITH them. It will enforce that daddy is being done wrong by everybody else, and that daddy is the fun guy that taught them everything in the how many month? he had them ALL to himself after he had Teresa murdered. I do NOT believe these girls will ever believe he did such a thing. It will become harder and harder on MAG and her family to try and raise the girls. You just cant lead a "colt" to water. They should NOT have been shielded from the start, no matter the pain or hurt. IT WAS THE TRUTH and the truth should have been told or at least explained in a manner they would have grapped it. It would have been difficult for any therapist to do that then, but, it is their job and it would have been done. I really question whether it can ever happen now.

Just jumping off your post - but "how" do we all know or not know - that someone HAS already told these two little girls what happened to their mother, and that includes MS is involved? Has that already been stated somewhere that the little girls do NOT know what happened to their mother?

TIA! :wave:

 

[Lawdog99]

Time for my once a year post. If those girls have any access to the Internet then the oldest at least knows a lot more than people here (and likely in her family) think. Even sheltered modern 11 year olds don't think in terms of some of what I have been reading here.Does anyone genuinely think that the oldest girl has no clue that her father is gone because he has been accused of having someone viciously murdering her mother?!? I'm almost laughing at the idea that an 11 year old is going to be thinking in terms of missing fun daddy who is just away for a few years and oh what a shame about mommy but he'll be back. They are young not stupid and from my experience children with the most manipulative parents aren't always manipulated successfully but are instead good at pretending to believe everything they are told.

They have been pulled around so much lately with people they trust likely providing totally contradictory information so what is a modern child going to do? Google it. If that oldest girl was left alone with Internet access for two minutes she was googling. So I am on team be up front and honest especially with the eldest because at this point secrecy and skirting around the issue is likely further damaging a child who likely spent months having her psychotic loser father filling her mind with utter BS only to learn how untrue it may have been yet he is still trying to further mislead her. That can lead to wondering why the adults in her life aren't acknowledging,confirming or denying the information she has been discovering. There are probably questions they are too afraid to ask because they don't want their father to know yet aren't sure why their mother's family isn't fully cluing them in either.

Those poor kids need to learn to live in their new normal and unfortunately for them part of that existence is being the daughters of a man who had their mother killed. I'm not saying toss them an iPad and let them browse the crime scene photos but instead that they desperately need age appropriate truth from their mother's family ,not infantilizing them and letting them live in a fantasy world.This sort of situation shouldn't be any child's reality but it is theirs and the bandaids need to come off so they can start to heal.

I totally agree. Any thing other than the truth will be detrimental to these young ladies ever living a normal life. Play Date Daddy is not real, not in this lifetime and it is time for them to learn to live in the real world which is full of manipulative beasts like they have been surrounded by since they were born. This is a true wake up call, TS has everlasting peace now, so it is time to let go and let God provide that for the girls. JMO

 

[AlwaysShocked]

As per BS on the stand the other day, she takes them regularly for counseling sessions. She referred to it as "grief counseling". So at the very least they are being exposed to professional counseling.

There is no way for us to know what approach is being taken with them in discussions of their mother's death, but professional counselors are unlikely to not be truthful. There have been numerous murder cases where children stuck by the parent and believed the parent until they saw the evidence presented at trial. And even then, sometimes the children are split, with some continuing to support a convicted murderer. (Remember the Michael Peterson case?) So for right now, I think any counselor would tread lightly in discussing anything like the guilt or innocence of their father. But discussing their loss of their mother is the main reason they are going for counseling. So I would think there would be some discussion of how she died.

Nine year old children do not have the same capacity for understanding as an eleven year old child would have. And each child matures at a different rate. But the good thing is that children seem to be pretty resiliant. These girls are now away from MS, in a stable and loving environment, and have a fairly broad amount of family support.

If MS and BS continue with the shenanigans they are going to do themselves in. I think the DCF reps and the GAL are going to be going over the tapes of MS's conversations with a fine tooth comb in the future. And the first time he steps out of line - Bingo! They make a motion for the Judge to review that aspect of his order based on the new information.

IMO Mark Sievers - the slimeball - is toast. He just doesn't realize it yet.

 

[Oregonmama]

With some of the texts in the latest document dump re the girls knowing certain arousal signs will send more red flags to DCF. I'm so glad they are with Mary.

 

[simlyme]

Just jumping off your post - but "how" do we all know or not know - that someone HAS already told these two little girls what happened to their mother, and that includes MS is involved? Has that already been stated somewhere that the little girls do NOT know what happened to their mother?

TIA! :wave:

Well, we don't know, but, IMO, If the girls had been told EVERYTHING that we know , right down to gruesome, they would not still be telling daddy they love him and be unhappy with where they are right now, maybe it's just me, but, the oldest has the capacity to understand how "bad" it really is, that's if they've been told detail. But, because they were with him for so long after their mother was brutally murdered, he had enough time to "program" them. Let's remember how many adults he had fooled, even before the murder. These are children. So, to me , even if they have been told by "strangers" how Mommy died, I don't believe they will ever accept that . I know what I'm thinking and believe and maybe I'm not being clear enough, but as I sit here looking from the outside in , I don't think the girls have been told things in very precise detail, or on a level they understand.

 

[MsJosie]

As per BS on the stand the other day, she takes them regularly for counseling sessions. She referred to it as "grief counseling". So at the very least they are being exposed to professional counseling.

There is no way for us to know what approach is being taken with them in discussions of their mother's death, but professional counselors are unlikely to not be truthful. There have been numerous murder cases where children stuck by the parent and believed the parent until they saw the evidence presented at trial. And even then, sometimes the children are split, with some continuing to support a convicted murderer. (Remember the Michael Peterson case?) So for right now, I think any counselor would tread lightly in discussing anything like the guilt or innocence of their father. But discussing their loss of their mother is the main reason they are going for counseling. So I would think there would be some discussion of how she died.

Nine year old children do not have the same capacity for understanding as an eleven year old child would have. And each child matures at a different rate. But the good thing is that children seem to be pretty resiliant. These girls are now away from MS, in a stable and loving environment, and have a fairly broad amount of family support.

If MS and BS continue with the shenanigans they are going to do themselves in. I think the DCF reps and the GAL are going to be going over the tapes of MS's conversations with a fine tooth comb in the future. And the first time he steps out of line - Bingo! They make a motion for the Judge to review that aspect of his order based on the new information.

IMO Mark Sievers - the slimeball - is toast. He just doesn't realize it yet.

If BS and MAG both take the girls for counseling....that can be awful! The counselors could be swayed to favor the side of the family taking the girls to the appointment. I know it is not to happen but it does. I am concerned id MS dictates who the girls should 'see'....his influence again comes into play.

Do counselors even see patients on Saturdays, on a regular basis? That is when BS has the girls...week ends only as hearing testimony indicated. Just where is BS taking the girls?

I would hope the Judge would step in at this point, if law allows...2 counselors, by each side of the family, not good IMO.

 

[msboo]

Agree, MsJosie... the kids should see only 1 therapist/counselor AND not at BS discretion. Guess I figured they might be seeing someone recommended by DCF, I was wrong there. We all know BS taking them to counseling is nothing more than a response to MS direction for 'looks'. Confusion is the last thing they need, time now is critical--wish some authority would step in, follow up what's going on. JMO but a good counselor would be far better than an 'intuition' whatever at this point---wish MAG would use that time for real grief, etc counseling. This is scary when a mom is out of the picture. I trust MAG but BS's access on wkends makes my hair stand up. MAG needs to have a break so what's she to do?

Some counsellors/therapist may see clients on weekends. Considering they're kids in a specifically difficult situation, some make allowances for such cases. All depends availability in the area... can be lots driving in lots traffic there. Would be great if MAG got someone for them before school starts, finding what's easiest for all on a regular basis. Consistency is best for everyone.

 

[msboo]

I wonder what the judge thinks now after seeing how sexually obsessed Mark is.

Probaly say, "O Mark, don't do that again." I'm even more disgusted with the judge now. MAG told the kids she wasn't going to move them up North, would stay in FL---I just feel it's best to get the 'hell outa Dodge' with what's out now with more to come. They're kids & you don't just want to rip them from what's been their home BUT.... Look at what happened---what took place, things he must have been doing prior-murder THEN his post-murder influence with BS adding to it all. They're hurting, they're gonna hurt more.... JMO but I'd like to see them away from the local circus that's been and is exploding more daily. Reality = it's a TS family decision.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Agree, MsJosie... the kids should see only 1 therapist/counselor AND not at BS discretion. Guess I figured they might be seeing someone recommended by DCF, I was wrong there. We all know BS taking them to counseling is nothing more than a response to MS direction for 'looks'. Confusion is the last thing they need, time now is critical--wish some authority would step in, follow up what's going on. JMO but a good counselor would be far better than an 'intuition' whatever at this point---wish MAG would use that time for real grief, etc counseling. This is scary when a mom is out of the picture. I trust MAG but BS's access on wkends makes my hair stand up. MAG needs to have a break so what's she to do?

Some counsellors/therapist may see clients on weekends. Considering they're kids in a specifically difficult situation, some make allowances for such cases. All depends availability in the area... can be lots driving in lots traffic there. Would be great if MAG got someone for them before school starts, finding what's easiest for all on a regular basis. Consistency is best for everyone.

Curious to know if the counselor has read anything about the case? I hope it truly is an educated, licensed counselor and not someone playing fast and loose with the description.

 

[human]

I asked the question before but what is it in Florida that is so great for the kids? They do not appear to have any frineds except play date friends made by Daddy dearest.

As O/T, I cannot get over the play date term. When I was growing up, kids played. There was no oarent involvement. It is so crazy to me. Childhood so regimented

 

[msboo]

Judge made a bad 'judgement'. WHY..... would any judge think a Mark Sievers type, along with his supportive mother, would STOP such behavior. Especially after what took place in HIS court.... just WHO's court were/are they in?! I'm really concerned as to what the judge will really do when this stuff doesn't stop. Hoping this judge was really giving MS lots of rope---we'll see.

 

[msboo]

Curious to know if the counselor has read anything about the case? I hope it truly is an educated, licensed counselor and not someone playing fast and loose with the description.

Me too. There are good but also many not great ones licensed, then you have the 'fast and loose', as you put it. BS can't be trusted. Don't know how or if DCF handles this. Seeing 2 counselors, good or bad, can effect the girls just like positive vs bad phone calls with MS. DCF looks at who should have custody, how they live, background etc.... would counseling not be part of that?

 

[human]

I am sure DCF cannot recommend any counselors. They can give a list, but if they recommend someone and the person turns out to be bad, then big trouble.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Me too. There are good but also many not great ones licensed, then you have the 'fast and loose', as you put it. BS can't be trusted. Don't know how or if DCF handles this. Seeing 2 counselors, good or bad, can effect the girls just like positive vs bad phone calls with MS. DCF looks at who should have custody, how they live, background etc.... would counseling not be part of that?

I was thinking more in regard to what BS might consider a grief counselor. :/

 

[msboo]

I am sure DCF cannot recommend any counselors. They can give a list, but if they recommend someone and the person turns out to be bad, then big trouble.

True. Thanks, human, for pointing that out. Liability is everywhere. Guess I thought they'd check licensing at the least.

Too bad the judge can't get in 'big trouble' for recommending jail calls continue. Slap on the wrist means nothing to such animals. To MS it's warning-swarning.